10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!

Which shows that Jews aren't treated as one like Americans are. Americans, through embassies and consulates, protect their citizens to an amazing extent abroad and passport issues rarely pose a problem. I was unaware that Jews had to push so hard on the passport front

Probability theory. :)



All nationals have the same way to obtain Polish passport (citizenship).

Can't refute that too easily Puzzler

- Can't refute what?



- Would you kindly elaborate on this?
:)

Most of them simply consider western countries more attractive. Like most of those Chechens coming here.

Yeah, Chechens have also been flocking to Poland in their droves, not without some controversy but achieving their goal. The Schengen agreement is yet another initiative that redefines positions. The Western countries have a greater commitment to enforcing human rights agreements

- But how do you know this that the Israelis moving in consider 'western countries' (whatever it means) more attractive? I hope you don't base your statement about the Israelis on a reasoning of the sort: 'Since some Chechens consider Germany more attractive to live in than Poland, then Israeli immigrants also consider Germany more attractive to live in than Poland'?



- The 'Western countries' (whatever it should mean) have allegedly 'a greater commitment to enforcing human rights' than who?

I'm kind of sick and tired of asking this question over and over again, but I've got no choice: so you don't consider Poland 'Western', Seamus? Why not?
:)

Poland is a central European country but if u look at my posting carefully, I never said or even implied that Poland wasn't Western. They have a greater commitment than countries who are not signatories to the ECHR. Turkey being a prime example, they were denied access for repeated violations of Article 8 in particular. Turkey, in my mind, is not classically Western, it's borderline

Germany is not the only country in the EU outside of Poland. I have seen enough Jews in the internet to doubt that they want to live among those evil Poles. Those who battle already many years to got some compensation probably dislike Poland even more.

- I got your point, brother. Sorry, if I sounded a bit harsh; it's not adversity towards you, just my style of talking. No hard feelings.
:)



- Yes, that seems to make sense. Thanks, Lesser.

None taken bro, forums are there to share opinions, it isn't a job, just a way to pass the time and test out what ur education gave u. Training is the way forward but I'm grateful for the education I received. U didn't insult my family so there's no issue. Keep the postings coming

About Israelis moving to Poland: It won't happen. Despite the news you see on TV, Israel is very good counbtry to live in and few Israelis are leaving. Those who do, go to the US, as people all over the world seem to be doing. So why are some trying to get Polish poassports? Simply to be able work and travel freely in the EU.

About Jews claiming pre-WWII property: That's more of an emotional issue (wanting justice or revenge) than a desire to move to Poland. It's not even a financial issue for most, since most of the porperties were just homes in small towns with little commercial value. Most of the Jewish property of pre war Poland has no claimants since the owners and their children were killed.

About Jews being a religion or an ethnic group:
We are an ethnic group that has its own religion. We all (except converts) descend from Jacob (also called Israel). It's all in the Bible, and our history is probably the most documented story in the world. Why is there so much variation in our appearance? Because we are not racially "pure". Converts who joined us over thousands of years brought in other traits to our genetic pool. Some of us have some Polish genes and some have some Perisan genes, etc. so that creates some cosmetic differences. But we all share the genes we got from the ancient Hebrew people who you read about in the Bible. Racial purity is not considered an important thing in our culture. As long as someone's mother is a Jew, that person is a Jew by Jewish law - no matter what other ancestors the person had.

About Communist Jews: As I said above, by Jewish law they are Jews. But what they did was not done by "THE JEWS" because they did it as renegades from the Jewish community and certainly from the jewish religion. Their philosophy was that Jews should disappear and assimilate with the other "workers". Communists wanted all national differences to disappear and become the "working class". This was all ******** of course, but Jewish communists were the first to give up their jewish identity (especially marx who hated jews). So blaming "THE JEWS" for what communists did is like blaming Poland for what the communists did.

I wouldn't show off the Bible if you want something to prove scientifically!
Is there more "real" stuff you can tell us?
What about the genetic comparison to the arabs in the ME?
(And how can it be that you all stem from one man...did his children made incest?) A real question here...

Don't get me wrong....it's all well when we talk about religion only (Adam and Eve etc).
But an ethnic history is something else alltogether....you shouldn't mix it!

Right now you are still a religion only in my mind....with a belief shared first with many people in a certain place in a certain time.
The same with the paganism in northern/central Europe before Christianity got imported.
Just sharing the same beliefs didn't made them a race! (And sharing christian beliefs or having a christian mother doesn't make one of a "christian race")

About your last question: We stem from one man and his children who married with canaanites, Ishmaelites and all kinds of other "ites". Jacobs wife was an Aramite.

As far as real stuff: Most historians accept the general historical picture that's in the Bible even if they don't accept the personal details. Religious Catholics would have to accept it if the believe that the Bible is from God. Anyway, I accept it (and I'm not even Catholic).

The Arabs in the ME are close to us genetically too. There have been studies where they look for a certain gene marker that's common to Jews and they see it in different ethnic groups in different amounts. Middle east people share it too. Arabs across the middle east are also not all the same. Some look completely white and some are black (Sudan). The Arab world is more of cultural thing than a racial thing.

Anyway, the Arabs and Jews are not of a different race from eachother. That's why it bothers me when Europeans think it has something to do with racism. It's simply a conflict between two ethnic groups, like there was between Poles and Ukrainians. Not every conflict is about race.

Come on, the Jews as a ethnic group (I don't blame Judaism) cannot so easily get away with this. Especially if many Jews loves to blame other nations for their misbehaviors, they should acknowledge crimes committed by the ethnic Jews as well. No matter how would Jews in Israel or US try to avoid this topic in Poland and some other countries people will remember. Denial don't bring them a sympathy among those people for sure.



Unfortunately many people don't understand the meaning of the words that they use. Even according to British court a Welshman who verbally offends Englishman is racist, what is absolutely ridiculous.

I think the fact that Jewish were really cleared out of Poland, they were safe to claim to be the victim's yet Roman/Greek Catholic had a population that remained. History being reported was of what happened to "Jewish" vs. what happened to "Polish" the real target. Even today I will find sites that are "Jewish" only and I wonder what they did with my family's records that were in the same location. I may not be Jewish but where are my rights. Carol

An excellent point, kaliszer, especially where you mention those "who remained Jews".


Lesser, you too have made an excellent point.

The trouble with these excellent points is that they seem to indicate some contradiction. A sort of “now we are/now we aren’t” Jewish.


Whereas wanting justice seems quite logical, wanting revenge doesn’t. Revenge on whom?

... so why should we give Polish citizenship to non-Poles?

Polska dla Polakow!

Polska dla Polakow, I understand but what do u mean Poland for Poles? Why only Poles?

AND BRITAIN FOR THE BRITISH

Could we have your definition of "a Pole", please?

And Afghanistan for the goat-herders

kaliszer wrote:

I admit it. I killed the Czar.

Who killed the Tsar? :

The whole record of Bolshevism in Russia is indelibly impressed with the stamp of alien invasion. The murder of the Tsar, deliberately planned by the Jew Sverdlov (who came to Russia as a paid agent of Germany) and carried out by the Jews Goloshchekin, Syromolotov, Safarov, Voikov and Yurovsky, is the act not of the Russian people, but of this hostile invader......................from the writings of British journalists Robert Wilton

Far from it,the welsh are the origional tribe of ancient britons and the english are dannish/german invaders :),but seriously,this was an assualt that the police new would go through quiker on a "race relations " charge than a simple commen assualt charge,they are hardly setting the definition for the OED .

well lets just line em all up an shoot em because a few old commies were jews......same rational lets line up a few thousand Poles coz Dzerzhinsky was a Pole and must therefore be responsible for the nkvd .......

sorry,which SS division is that in your avatar?


Was it lee harvey oswoldstein?
I dont know but it certainly wasnt Mr Gold from around the corner,sicko's like you lot seem to want to blame him for everything from the killing of jesus(incidently,Ive seen the movie,twas the Romans did it....) to the cancelation of Stargate SGC at season 11.....

So regarding my Polska dla Polaków statements:

To Seanus:
- Why should Poland give citizenship to non-Poles, or at least a large number of them? We shouldn't be encouraging Germans, Jews, Arabs, Turks, and Blacks to settle our country. Poland has a deep history and culture and we need to protect it from outsiders. I can understand a limited system of accepting foreigners as citizens, but only under special conditions.

To noimmigration:
- Yes, I agree, Britain for the British. If only the Polish government could clean up and improve our economy, we wouldn't be bothering you with waves of young laborers.

To omniba:
- A Pole is someone who is ethnically Polish. Meaning, someone whose parents were considered Polish. Of course, there are many more criteria and exceptions to those criteria (i.e. if you're half Polish but follow Polish culture, than maybe you could apply), but I won't delve into them here.

To isthatu:
- This isn't a symbol of any SS division. This is the symbol for the National-Radical Camp (Obóz Nardowo-Radykalny) and for the National Rebirth of Poland (Nardowe Odrodzenie Polski). This symbol was originally taken and changed from the pre-war Rodło symbol which represented nationalist Poles.

This is logic used by many authoritarians. Anyway where is freedom of speech? (even for idiots)



Of course I don't blame innocent Jewish individuals. However if many Jews find this OK to profane good name of the Polish nation, because few individuals (for sure less that number of Jewish commies) collaborated with Germans. I have full right to expect from them to attribute crimes of those Jewish communists on account of the Jews. If Kwasniewski must apologize for Jedwabne (average Pole don't even know where is this sh*t-hole) than perhaps some Jewish leader should apologize for Jewish communists? (not communism in general) Issue between Polish commies and the rest of Polish people is our internal problem.

About why some Jews were attracted to communism: In the 19th and 20th century, all of eastern europe was developing national awareness, based on ethnicity. So Polish nationalism centered around the Polish ethnic group and Catholicism (Polska dla Polakow!). Ukrainian nationalism centered around the Ukrainian ethnic group and their religion, hungarians, lithuanians, etc the same. Jews were squeezed out by this. They had no specific territory to become independent in. The other nationalisms defined themselves in opposition to the Jews. That's why Jews in Austro-Hungary were patriotic for the empire because that framework gave them a chance for a decent life, while ethnic patriotism left them out. But in Czarist Russia the government was blatantly anti-Jewish so the Jews couldn't root for them. What framework could Jews hope for (except emigrating to the US)?

Some felt that the only hope was our own national home in the only territory we had ties to: Israel. Others fell for the dream of a Europe without nationalism, where the "working class" would unite all people regardless of ethnicity and bring equality and freedom. The Jews who joined this movement did so in an attempt to erase their "separateness" and be not Jewish both in the religions AND the ethnic sense. This turned out to be a fake dream because the leaders, Lenin, Stalin and their henchmen, were interested in power and were no less ruthless than the czar. Stalin especially used anti-semitism as a tool whenever it suited him.
Pretty soon, most Jews became disillusioned. But some became enthusiastic participants. Among their victims were the Zionists, the Jewish labor movement (the Bund) and the masses of religious Jews. It's ironic and unjust that the crimes of these communists are blamed on the nation that they attempted to escape from.

You say that to blame the Polish nation for the crimes of individuals would be unjust as well. That's true particularly if those crimes were done against the interests and the feelings of the Polish nation, like those who collaborated with the germans. But the crimes of some Polish groups, such as the Endec before the war and the AK during the war, who both targeted Jews, even while fighting the Germans, were done in the name of Polish patriotism. Was this what Poles really wanted? The massacre at Kielce after the war seemed to say that it was. So Jews got the impression that after all they and the Poles went through during the war, nothing had changed. It was still "Polska dla Polakow" and certainly not a place for Jews to remain. Even though a new generation has grown up meanwhile among both peoples, it's an impression that takes a long time to fade away.

Your explanation why many Jews chose communism is logical and I basically I agree with this view. However if they already gained power, many of them supported Lenin's and Stalin's criminal policy. This was not for what communism stands in theory. Later one could say revolution eat its children, of course not only Jews.

One could say that some of those Jews saw internationalism as a solution for the sake of Jews as well. So this is not pure betrayal like Polish Nazi collaborators.



Endecja did not kill the Jews, rather supported some state politics to reduce number of Jews and increase number of Poles for example in universities. Anti-Jewish policy was based more on "economical" factors rather racial. Of course some fringe groups also existed like everywhere.

While those from AK could be pissed off seeing that many Jews collaborate with Soviets whom backstabber us. AK also had some number of Jewish members and organized some pro-Jewish actions. They liberated Jewish ghetto during Warsaw 1944 rising.



Kielce was inspired by commies, both Poles and Jews over there fought for survival. Sh*t happens sometimes.



But note what those Poles saw, many Jews in goverment and Polish KGB run practically by the Jews chasing for AK members. One could say that this was also Stalin plan, such personal policy.

If the AK targeted Jews it was because these Jews were communists, and therefore enemies of a free Poland, and not simply because they were Jews.


The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was in 1943 – and the Ghetto was liquidated in the same year, surely. The Warsaw Uprising was in 1944. These are two separate events.

The Germans don't waste time.

On the fifth day of the Uprising, captain Jan announced a new objective for the company: to take the concentration camp Gesiówka, erected by the Germans in the vast, empty and wide open space of the burned out Warsaw Ghetto.
(...)
Taking Gesiówka would allow the liberation of its 400 prisoners, the obtaining of arms and the elimination of the German fire from the guard towers overlooking the streets and buildings on the fringes of the ruined ghetto. Two events made this endeavor mandatory and possible. First was a chance arrest, on the first day of fighting, of a Gestapo officer from the Gesiówka Concentration Camp who revealed that all of the prisoners were Jews, the last Jews remaining in Warsaw.

http://www.warsawuprising.com/savejews.htm