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JAKUB TOMCZAK - guilty?
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posts: 412
 
mong [Guest]
  Jan 31, 08, 17:23  #271
Grzegorz_ wrote:
mong wrote:
The vast majority were not in court to see it

Was vast majority of British journalists writing about this case in the court ? Go get a life.

Yes, they were. Check to attendance transcripts.

You have a short fuse, don't you? You need to relax mate. Get some sleep

Grzegorz_ wrote:
mong wrote:
The vast majority were not in court to see it


Go get a life.


Similar to the quality of life jakub's victim has been left with?

 Guest

                              
 
neil1 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 00:50  #272
mong wrote:
The good thing is he will never be allowed back in the UK, deported after his sentence is complete in probably ~12 years time and then he is Poland's problem :-)

Where did you get that from Mong? Have you tried travelling from Poland to the UK?? i do it approx four times a year And i do not think anyone has ever even looked at my passport. I would suggest that when his sentence is over that he probably would prefer not to reside here- he will be on the sex offenders register and more likely to be recognised here, anyone can walk into the uk, our border controls are rubbish.

 Guest

                              
 
neil1 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 01:10  #273
EWESIAAAA wrote:
THANK YOU VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BRITISH!!!!!!!!!!!

Check out the cctv footage and if you still do not agree, get some glasses, also tell us about this technique rapists use where they can mimmick someone else dna so that there is a 100% match. Read about all the evidence, stop trying to cast doubt over this conviction, jakub is an animal, do you want him on the streets of poland, one of your family could be his next victim. Personally i say shoot the bastard, i am fed up of paying taxes for people like that.

 Guest

                              
 
lennyd [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 01:43  #274
i know we have dirty polish criminals freely coming here now commiting crimes when will this crazy EU madness end just send them back

 Guest

                              
 
cyg
  Feb 1, 08, 02:20  #275
lennyd wrote:
i know we have dirty polish criminals freely coming here now commiting crimes

I take it you prefer your own homegrown criminals? It's so much more comforting to get murdered or raped by one of your own.

(I know I shouldn't feed it, but hey, sometimes I just can't help myself)
Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Oct 31, 07
                              
 
espana
  Feb 1, 08, 02:31  #276
He worked hard, was trustworthy, didn't take breaks and was punctual and polite (his manager)
not breaks ? ..........an idiot!!!!!!!!! and idiots are always guilty.
Member
Posts: 802
Joined: Feb 28, 07
                              
 
mong [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 02:52  #277
neil1 wrote:
mong wrote:
The good thing is he will never be allowed back in the UK, deported after his sentence is complete in probably ~12 years time and then he is Poland's problem :-)

Where did you get that from Mong? Have you tried travelling from Poland to the UK?? i do it approx four times a year And i do not think anyone has ever even looked at my passport. I would suggest that when his sentence is over that he probably would prefer not to reside here- he will be on the sex offenders register and more likely to be recognised here, anyone can walk into the uk, our border controls are rubbish.


After committing serious offences, it is common practice for any non-UK residents to be deported upon competion of their sentence.

I would be amazed if Jakub does not fall into this category - assuming he survives prison.

Exceptions are made rarely, and tends to only include criminals who entered the country under initial asylum status. (ie return to their home country is dangerous).

He will have a hard time trying to fly anywhere abroad too. He hasn't got a hope in hell of ever being granted entry to the US or Aus/NZ. OR any other civilised country that does criminal record checks even for temporary entry visas.

 Guest

                              
 
ShelleyS
  Feb 1, 08, 03:20  #278
What Im finding hard to take in, is the fact that Polish people are trying to say that this animal is guilt free - how would you feel if we protested the innocence of that animal that raped and murdered the Polish girl in Scotland - Not one English person on this board said a word in his favour..but because some Polish guy has raped and tried to murder an English woman, he must be innocent!
Member
Posts: 1125
Joined: Jun 26, 07
                              
 
neil1 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 03:27  #279
lennyd wrote:
i know we have dirty polish criminals freely coming here now commiting crimes when will this crazy EU madness end just send them back


Actually, most Polish immigrants are hard working and law abiding, crime rates in the uk have not deteriorated since EU enlargement. Your comments are based on no facts whatsoever, infact you sound like you may be a racist to me.

 Guest

                              
 
neil1 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 03:41  #280
ShelleyS wrote:
What Im finding hard to take in, is the fact that Polish people are trying to say that this animal is guilt free - how would you feel if we protested the innocence of that animal that raped and murdered the Polish girl in Scotland - Not one English person on this board said a word in his favour..but because some Polish guy has raped and tried to murder an English woman, he must be innocent!


Thats true Shelley, i take it you are referring to the polish girl Angelina Kluk.Look, a lot of the polish press have been reporting this case incorrectly and that is why we are getting posts on here doubting the conviction, these people are commenting on what they have read in the polish press so you can`t blame them for doubting what has happened. It is true that there are one or two questions about what happened but the evidence he has been convicted on is compelling .

 Guest

                              
 
espana
Edited by: espana  Feb 1, 08, 03:46  #281
neil1 wrote:
you sound like you may be a racist to me.

this man didnt have his breaks and he went out with his polish friends .
sound to me that this man, may be was a racist too.
why he didnt mix with english and others nationalities?
that is the problem with polish people , they only think in work ,money, and poland
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Posts: 802
Joined: Feb 28, 07
                              
 
mong [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 03:51  #282
Scotsman convicted of killing a Pole - GUILTY scum, double the sentence!!

Pole conviced of raping/GBH on an English woman - JAKUB IS INNOCENT (we know this from the Polish press, despite court transcripts showing only one Polish journalist present throughout the trial) BLATANT RACISM. SHAME ON UK!!!

You have to laugh at the utter simplicity of these people. I just hope none have any jobs that have any significant impact on society.

 Guest

                              
 
mong [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 04:13  #283
ShelleyS wrote:
What Im finding hard to take in, is the fact that Polish people are trying to say that this animal is guilt free - how would you feel if we protested the innocence of that animal that raped and murdered the Polish girl in Scotland - Not one English person on this board said a word in his favour..but because some Polish guy has raped and tried to murder an English woman, he must be innocent!


In my honest opinion Shelley, this is due to the thoroughly unprofessional and utterly ridiculous way the trial was portrayed in Poland and is no reflection on the Polish people themselves. They can only believe what they are told and if the Polish press are feeding them ******** despite not even being in the courtroom then what can they do?

 Guest

                              
 
vanburen3 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 05:59  #284
People like Exeter Family are the sort of people who only Judge after the event, and call someone a criminal, if he was to be released next week you would then say oh poor man for wrongful imprisionment...you are two faced...the perfect world would be a clean one with out your sort in it

 Guest

                              
 
Kasiata
Edited by: Kasiata  Feb 1, 08, 06:12  #285
- Can someone explain me why the blood found on her bag was neither Jakub's nor hers? (this is from British press)
- since there are so many reports on botched DNA sampling, I have an idea:

FIRST sequence the samples found on victim in 3 independent labs
THEN, AND ONLY THEN AFTER get samples from the suspect
THEN test the sample of the suspect in 3 other laboratories
THEN compare data

shouldn't it be like that?

 Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 30, 08
                              
 
southern
Edited by: southern  Feb 1, 08, 07:03  #286
Kasiata wrote:
shouldn't it be like that?


No.You should not doubt about DNA results.It is hardcore scientific analysis,not affected by the usual bias.I know this gives to the whole process a totally different meaning which strips away its traditional role but what does it all have to do with that?
You cannot doubt the DNA analysis except you are a fallacious lawyer exercised in that and in this case you are going to get burned if the case is judged by judge and not by jury.

 Member
Posts: 2474
Joined: May 17, 07
                              
 
Shawn_H
Edited by: Shawn_H  Feb 1, 08, 07:13  #287
southern wrote:
It is hardcore scietific analysis,not affected by the usual bias


Interesting artical from: http://www.nyclu.org/node/1028

DNA evidence is not infallible

When DNA analysis is conducted with accuracy and precision, the results can be highly probative in making determinations of guilt or innocence in criminal matters. But the error rate is not zero. False positives do occur. Errors are a function of many factors, including the degradation of the DNA sample.

Even when a DNA sample is of good quality, the judgment of the lab technician enters into the analysis of the sample and the reporting of the results. What's more, the collection, processing and handling of DNA samples introduces many opportunities for error. This has led to a rash of DNA testing errors in labs throughout the country due to cross-contamination and mislabeling of samples.

The Houston Police Department shut down the DNA and serology section of its crime laboratory in early 2003 after a series of investigations found serious deficiencies in the lab's procedures. Two men who had been falsely incriminated by botched lab work were released after subsequent DNA testing proved their innocence.
Member
Posts: 1653
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Harry
  Feb 1, 08, 07:16  #288
Kasiata wrote:
- Can someone explain me why the blood found on her bag was neither Jakub's nor hers? (this is from British press)

Who knows? Maybe Kuba needed a little help to beat the woman almost to death before raping her. The sperm found inside her was certainly his.

Kasiata wrote:
- since there are so many reports on botched DNA sampling, I have an idea:

There was no botched DNA sampling. The first test was not finished because of a software bug. The second test was finished and showed a match to the DNA found inside the victim.

 Member
Posts: 494
Joined: May 2, 07
                              
 
Kasiata
  Feb 1, 08, 07:16  #289
- Could you tell me from what media was the Polish journalist that was at the whole trial?

- Yes, Polish criminals are coming (I used to work for the police), but so are British to Poland. What I saw this year in Krakow done by Brits (and others) wasn't a pleasing picture.

- CCTV footage - I can not agree that 'when you see you believe'. There is too little information. I would have to be a specialist to say anything about the similarity of the persons recorded, and I would have to see all the footages from other cameras in that part of town and that exact time. Four clips are just taking everything out of context. It's like pasting up politicians' speech.

- on another note, I think this Jakub guy seems to be too perfect. Not taking breaks at work, everybody in the family/friends loves him, very gentle, etc. And why the hell is he leaving girls alone, if he is such a gentlemen and there are so many rapes in Exeter? and he is changing his story about how long he spoke to the Lithuanian friend.

Don't let your girls walk alone. Ever!

 Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 30, 08
                              
 
miranda
  Feb 1, 08, 07:18  #290
guilty or not - this turned into a political thing now.
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Posts: 3637
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Kasiata
  Feb 1, 08, 07:27  #291
How do you know that? Were you testing this sample?
I'm not questioning science.
The expert in trial has apparently stated the possibility of contamination of the sample. (anybody who was at the trial can confirm that?- again this is only info from the net).

- IF there was another person involved in this crime, why the cctv cameras hasn't got the record of the second man?

 Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 30, 08
                              
 
cyg
  Feb 1, 08, 07:54  #292
Kasiata wrote:
The expert in trial has apparently stated the possibility of contamination of the sample. (anybody who was at the trial can confirm that?- again this is only info from the net).

She was talking about the sample taken from Tomczak in Poznan. They used another sample to do the test used in the trial.
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Posts: 114
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Kasiata
  Feb 1, 08, 09:29  #293
why take another test? what's the motive?

Interesting information from 'The Guardian':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,640157,00.html

some quotes:
The study is the first evidence of widespread mistakes in the sophisticated system of tests. DNA testing is widely used to convince juries of a suspect's guilt or presence at the scene of a crime, and was thought to be almost flawless.
(...)
DNA testing is controversial in the United States, but in Britain - where a similar number of samples are held on the nationwide database, despite our smaller population - government scientists deny that errors are possible.

 Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 30, 08
                              
 
Mara [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 10:03  #294
forensic-evidence.com/site/EVID/EL_DNAerror.html

 Guest

                              
 
db1874
  Feb 1, 08, 10:14  #295
Mara wrote:
forensic-evidence.com/site/EVID/EL_DNAerror.html
this is an 8 year old article.
Kasiata wrote:
Interesting information from 'The Guardian':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,640157,00.html
and this is a 5 year old article.

The science of DNA is advancing by the week.

It's amazing how suddenly we have all these experts around saying that DNA is not reliable and yet it's the gold standard for evidence throughout the world.

Combine the odds of the DNA match with the odds that he just happened to be in the same city, out on the same night and within a few streets of the victim, rather than anywhere else in the world. I'm no statistician but I reckon that makes it about a one in a trillion chance that it wasn't him.
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Posts: 177
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Kasiata
Edited by: Kasiata  Feb 1, 08, 10:51  #296
this is a link to a quite recent resources:

web.austin.utexas.edu/law_library/innocence/subject.cfm?subject=1

It's hard for me to believe that the scale of the problem is much different anywhere in the western world.
I believe that there is a legitimate doubt about the quality of this tests.
Really, I don't understand why not test samples in different time and place since the most apparent problem nowadays seems to be the contamination of samples?

db1874 wrote:
It's amazing how suddenly we have all these experts around saying that DNA is not reliable and yet it's the gold standard for evidence throughout the world.


in US and recently in Ireland the DNA evidence alone is not enough for prosecution. It seems that in UK it is though. Don't know about other countries.

 Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jan 30, 08
                              
 
neil1 [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 11:29  #297
Kasiata wrote:
CCTV footage

kasiata- if you are familiar with the area in which the crime took place, you would have no doubts at all that he is guilty based on the cctv footage alone.

 Guest

                              
 
Grzegorz_
  Feb 1, 08, 12:28  #298
ShelleyS wrote:
What Im finding hard to take in, is the fact that Polish people are trying to say that this animal is guilt free


ShelleyS wrote:
but because some Polish guy has raped and tried to murder an English woman, he must be innocent!


Did your fat ass replace your brain ? With the number of Poles in the UK there must be at least tens of them sitting in British prisons for very serious crimes and so far no one has ever been protesting. In this case a guy is maybe fat and stupid looking but that's definately not a typical criminal, so his family and friends are making a lot of noise and some things they are pointing out (like blood of some other person or result of the first test) shouldn't be ignored unless somebody want the guy to be guilty no matter what.

southern wrote:
No.You should not doubt about DNA results.It is hardcore scientific analysis


But that's theory. In practice a person doing the first test could mix a sample taken from the guy with a sample taken from the victim or commit a hundred of other mistakes.
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Posts: 4907
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mong [Guest]
  Feb 1, 08, 23:02  #299
neil1 wrote:

kasiata- if you are familiar with the area in which the crime took place, you would have no doubts at all that he is guilty based on the cctv footage alone.


Exactly. It is totally dead by 11pm, let alone at 3am. If you sit there at 3am you will be lucky to see a car, let alone 2 people (or 3 as Jakub claims, a mysterious thrid person that appeared wearing his clothes and that also 'borrowed' his genetic makeup - LOL)

To suggest another man wearing exactly the same clothes appeared at 3am, bearing the same DNA as Jakub is borderline insane and only he knows why he went to trial instead of pleading guilty at the first opportunity.

All this after he admitted following her, but only once he was shown the CCTV.

LOL

I am not sure what publication the only ever present Polish journalist was from but I shall endeavor to find out. You can bet it is the only decent write-up of the case that will be attainable in Poland, that's for sure.

 Guest

                              
 
!!! [Guest]
Edited by: Admin  Feb 2, 08, 03:55  #300
Grzegorz_ wrote:
Did your fat ass replace your brain ? With the number of Poles in the UK there must be at least tens of them sitting in British prisons for very serious crimes and so far no one has ever been protesting. In this case a guy is maybe fat and stupid looking but that's definately not a typical criminal, so his family and friends are making a lot of noise and some things they are pointing out (like blood of some other person or result of the first test) shouldn't be ignored unless somebody want the guy to be guilty no matter what.


* !!!
* mong

wrote:

Grzegorz. You really need to relax mate. The previous poster is a lady and you are being abusive, rude and aggressive.

I'm sure this is how Jakub started. You will spiral down into raping defenceless women next.

Have you ever seen anyone about your temper?

As for suggesting 'get a life?'. Have you seen your post count? Approaching 5k.

You need to get out more pal. Just remember no means no, alright?

 Guest

                              
 
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