January Uprisings of 1863

oh but of course im not saying that - im saying its not reason to claim defeat only

ok so they take these prisoners away to Siberia, do some of them make it back
to poland is my question?

I know in some circumstances during WWII that they did , but going further back
to the uprisings of January 22nd 1863.

This type of history, we dont have/learn about here. But I think with each country,
they try to focus on history within that country, there is so much to learn from every
different country.

I believe Germany apologized for almost everything.............

I know germany did, I was saying as well as they did. but Russia seems to be
immune to any wrong.

Well you have to think about this......war changes people. They get angrier, and take out their anger in ways that would make even Satan cry. We can't really hold today's governments accountable for past actions. Today's average Russian was not alive to commit attrocities in Poland, or vice versa. People should learn to forgive, have a big BBQ of kielbasa, and drink some vodka

they hadnt any choice - thats how it is, america and russia are not overrun by opposing forces and feel they can get away without apologising...when they should (as germany should have and did, but i think the apology was sincere for the most part - as the americans and russian people who would LOVE there leaders to apologize!!

I know alot of americans who are ashamed of G W Bush for eg

oh yes alot of them still are around, they are very old, but they remember.

just as do the older ones in Poland. something they cant forget till they die.

I meant the people that do most of the working today. The veterans of WW2 are all senior citizens




They'll even remember it after then, but that doesn't mean we can't get along with Russians

Just as some of my mothers cousins who came there and seen and couldnt believe
what they seen. it was horrific.

I was taking care of a lady recently. she was put in a camp.

she had dementia someting like that, usually they revert back to childhood, and
she reverted back to the traumatic part of her life. she was in those camps

its still very real to those who went through it.

Trust me, my family knows WW2 better than most, and I know how you feel, but you can't honestly hold something against a people who's fathers commited the crimes, not they. I really know what you feel like Patrycja, trust me

I am not saying dont get along with them. but Both countries did everything they
could to wipe out a nation.

both should be responsible. Germany did the right thing. shouldnt russia.
I think so. even if it never happens, I think they should step up to the plate
even now if they did something, i think it would create a stronger bond,

dont you think so artur?

It would show they do have character, and remorse, and even though they are
also a strong nation of people, it would give them a better reputation in the long
run. I think people would see things differently towards them.

Germany was controlled by the US and England, and was forced to apologize. Russia on the other hand, didn't have anybody playing puppetmaster so they did what they wanted. It was the communist government that made the Russian people look like monsters.




Yes I believe we all deserve a heart-felt apology, but you have to udnerstand, that they can say what they want and not even mean it. People lie, and the Russian gov. is notorious for it.

Back to the uprisings....what brought it about and what went wrong? Need my history lesson for the day....

OK.. I teach myself....Wikipedia says that it was started by young people who were rebelling against being forced into involuntary labor in the Russian army, and that it was the longest uprising-lasting for two years. The article also says that no cities were recaptured and the Poles had to resort to guerilla tactics. Russia retaliated against the Poles with executions and deportations to Siberia.

So I'm thinking that the "will to fight" was there, but there was not enough support, organization, and communication to pull it off. Otherwise, there may have been a very different outcome.

But I also think that the enormous bloodshed described is tragic, for so little to have been gained. But if I were in the same situation, and things were bad enough, I might to choose to fight and be free in death, if necessary, rather than to live in oppression.

shopgirl. good history lesson couldnt have said it better

Patrycja, were there any records kept of the deportations as a means to trace your family member? Wasn't everyone required to carry "papers" in those times to get through check points?

I recently found out that there was a book written about those who were deported
of course it only shows their names, which is good, i have that, what i want is to find
out if they made it out of siberia.. I know people didnt stay there, unless they did
I am very unclear as to those sent during that time, what their outcome was?

Rather wondering if they escaped, released? I mean whole towns of people were
sent, so did they survive? did they die there? just unclear picture to me..

help?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Uprising

library.yale.edu/slavic/slavic.html#archive

This is a link to Yale Library database. Do you have a name or anything to go on?

Grzegorz,

why don't you agree? think

what did the Warsaw Uprising accomplish?
1. 250,000 Polish people died
2. 90% of Warsaw is destroyed on orders from Hitler
3. many from AK perished


I don't agree with you Warsaw Uprising was a must. in that moment Stalin realized that Poland don't want to be next Soviet republic...there was some plans to do it...

and that is way he did't alowed to help american and british aircaft to land in Poland and he said that that rebel wasn't needed. hmm he also changed plans of war and direction of offensive to punish polish patriots of AK....

Difference being that the Germans or Russian are quite happy to level a city and exterminate its population.

Gee...for all Polish people on the board, I am sure its all too easily remember by your grandparents etc...an awful thing for your to have had to endure.

Again...its appears that Stalin, wanted Poland....bereft of its heroes, the men/women who would stand up and fight and resist...why have to get rid of them in 6 mths time when the Germans would do most of it for them?

Why waste another Russian life to liberate Poland....if a few more Poles can take out a few more Germans?

It served both nations, that Poland, was a wasteland...weakened....unable to put up much resistance after their horrible experiences.

Decisions were taken by the big players....Poland and its people were expendable pawns to be used and abused by their big neighbours...another European tragedy.

How

so were the irish successive rebellions and uprisings. you only need to succeed once (in theory)

Its all very well to attack it now - in hindsight.

but imagine you were there. you could no more stand by an injustice. no human could live like that. (a decent human that is)

all we can do, is use the lessons of the past and learn from them in the future. to learn from the errors and build on the successes

your the type of person that says 'the end of the world is today!'

you only need to be right once!

i saw again, re the uprising (as you seemed content to repeat yourself rather than discuss further points)

its all very well in hindsight - if they knew then what we know now, they may have done it differently (may - as its moot point)

Witek, maybe the uprisings did not seem worth it to you because the desired result was not acheived. But to the people who stood up and fought, the cause was worthwhile enough to them to lay down their lives for what they believed. I have to respect that.

looking back at this.. daffy your just amazingly right :)

lets see if any newcomers who havent seen this thread have anything to add to
it :))

you can`t blame Russian gov-nt in this assassination because you have no true evidences! So it would be better to keep silent, otherwise you will show your partiality and lack of information...:-(