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Jewish Hatred toward Polish


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celinski
  May 2, 08, 13:38  #1

I am tired of hearing how the Polish hate Jewish. I see this as "Anti-Polishmitic". Reading we are responsable for "Holocaust" behavior hurts the victims. In the USA it's mandatory our children learn of the "Holocaust". Yet over and over we are told we cannot talk about it. Numbers of "Jewish" victims range from one to six million. This is a large margin.

My question is why do so many disrespect the Polish?


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Easy_Terran
  May 2, 08, 13:47  #2

50 years of propaganda, soviet propaganda, when anybody could say any sh** s/he wanted about Poland, any lie, any bullcrap - and Poland couldn't straighten it.

Myths grew to become 'one and only' truth.


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celinski
  May 2, 08, 14:02  #3

Thank God Poland is free to "Speak Out". I am sick of my loved ones that lost their lives being spoken of as if they were the bad guys. Poland needs to know we are here to back them as they adjust to the new independent country they are.


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Grzegorz_
  May 2, 08, 14:39  #4

There are many reasons for that but after all I wouldn't say that It's because (at least not mostly) of pure Polonophobia. "They" just feel the need to blame as many people as possible and Poland is a very easy target. There were countries where locals during WW2 killed probably more Jews than Germans did but most of people around the world don't even know what for example Latvia is, so "they" leave them alone and in case of Poland It's very easy to "sell" crap like "look, most of concentration camps were there !" and somehow most don't bother to use their brains and realize that's because the biggest number of Jews was there... no to mention knowledge like that Auschwitz was built as a concentration camp for Poles and thousands of Polish Goys were had been killed there before first Jews were sent there.


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Easy_Terran
  May 2, 08, 14:51  #5

Grzegorz_:
thousands of Polish Goys

Before anybody starts yelling that you used improper word, change Polish Goys to Polish Goyim ;)

As for Auschwitz: aparently people don't wanna use their brains to realize that this is a German name, not Polish, either.

It is Konzentrationlager Auschwitz, not Oświęcimski Obóz Koncentracyjny.


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Bratwurst Boy
  May 2, 08, 14:59  #6

Easy_Terran:
Oświęcimski Obóz Koncentracyjny.


Because no German could speak that without getting their tongue in knots...


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Grzegorz_
  May 2, 08, 15:10  #7

Easy_Terran:

Before anybody starts yelling that you used improper word, change Polish Goys to Polish Goyim ;)


What's wrong with Goys ?


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eric_the_nave
  May 2, 08, 15:44  #8

One of the best explanations of why many Jews who have long since forgiven Germans still hate the Poles I have seen was an analogy given roughly as

"Children who have been abused by their fathers often grow up despising their mothers"

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Easy_Terran
  May 2, 08, 16:18  #9

eric_the_nave:
What's wrong with Goys ?

They claim it't not gramatically correct.


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Harry
  May 2, 08, 16:34  #10

You want to know why Jews hate Poles and vice versa?

Easy. One historic reason and one current.

The historic reason is that Jews were allowed to lend money (the bible of course forbade good Catholics from lending money). As they were barred from owning land (because they were Jews), instead they made a living lending money and trading. Everybody hates banks and five hundred years ago Jews were the banks.

The current reason is that Poles like to call themselves 'the Christ of nations' because they were so persecuted and their country disappeared for 150 years. Jews point out that they were persecuted to a much higher degree (anti-Polish pogroms anybody? Systematic attempt to kill all Poles anybody) and their country disappeared for ten times more than 150 years. And what's more (and really pisses Poles off) Jews are far more likely to be the Christ of nations because Christ was a Jew.

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Grzegorz_
Edited by: Grzegorz_  May 2, 08, 16:54  #11

Harry:
Everybody hates banks and five hundred years ago Jews were the banks.


Yawn... Centries old things don't really matter, we don't really hate Swedish...

Harry:
The current reason is that Poles like to call themselves 'the Christ of nations' because they were so persecuted and their country disappeared for 150 years.


The Christ of nations was a concept of Mickiewicz and several other poets/writers of romatism and weired stuff wasn't only a Polish thing in that era. You don't seriosuly claim that now Poles think about themselves like that, do you ? If you mean "victimhood" then that's how at least half of the nations in the world feel and we at lest have more rights for that than most of them.

Harry:
anti-Polish pogroms anybody?


Uhh... ? Hundreds of villages and 90% of Warsaw razed to the ground by Gerries... ? Massacres of all Poles they could get by Western Ukrainians ?

Harry:
Systematic attempt to kill all Poles anybody


39-41 deportations to Siberia... ? Generalplan Ost... ?

Harry:
(and really pisses Poles off)


You've got to be kidding me...

Har, once again you're trying to play a smart ass when in fact your knowledge is really tiny.


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Harry
  May 2, 08, 20:30  #12

Grzegorz_:
(and really pisses Poles off)

You've got to be kidding me...

Har, once again you're trying to play a smart ass when in fact your knowledge is really tiny.

So you mean Jesus was actually a Catholic and not a Jew.

Please debate me on any point you choose...

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Bratwurst Boy
Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 2, 08, 20:58  #13

I really think it's the fear of many Jews to lose their spot in the limelight now that the iron curtain vanished.
It has much to do with the crime of the Stalinists being talked about for the first time after decades.

Many Jews can accept that there was another drama beside Hitler and the Nazi-Holocaust...but many can't!

And what do you do when you need to deny somebody their achievements/sacrifices? Right...you denigrate them!


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Easy_Terran
  May 2, 08, 22:31  #14

Harry:
So you mean Jesus was actually a Catholic and not a Jew.


Well there are more documents being found lately proving that Jesus was actually a buddhist who converted to zionism in its pure form, but didn't like it, so finally He converted to catholicism. It's almost certain, as one of the scholars says, He most likely would convert to Jehova Witnesses faith, but he didn't have a chance - he was killed.

Jesus was also very interested in Slavic paganism when He briefly lived in Central Europe, mostly then-Poland. That's why Poles have this Christ of the Nation thing.

Harry, please stop.


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Grzegorz_
  May 3, 08, 06:50  #15

Harry:

So you mean Jesus was actually a Catholic and not a Jew.


Jesus was probably Aramaean and in case of religion... well, one could get that "revolutionary" idea that a Christ was... a Christian...

Harry:
Please debate me on any point you choose...


I did that in #11 and rather won't be wasting my time anymore.


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joepilsudski
  May 3, 08, 12:17  #16

eric_the_nave:
One of the best explanations of why many Jews who have long since forgiven Germans still hate the Poles.


The reason for this is because the Jews get big money out of Germany in terms of 'reperations', and they also have major control/interest in German industry and banking...Poland does not have enough money at this point for the Jews to show a 'major interest', but as you can see from other posts about increased Israeli-Polish
relationships in various areas, if and when Poland becomes wealthier, the Jews will take a softer line in order to dislodge money.

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Grzegorz_
  May 3, 08, 16:34  #17

joepilsudski:
if and when Poland becomes wealthier, the Jews will take a softer line


Unfortunately history (or rather its interpretations) is only a tool for current politics.


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Frank
  May 3, 08, 17:26  #18

Bigotry and racism...alive and well.......isnt life great.....


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Harry
  May 3, 08, 19:22  #19

Frank:
Bigotry and racism...alive and well.......

Sure is in Poland.

Grzegorz:
"Uhh... ? Hundreds of villages and 90% of Warsaw razed to the ground by Gerries... ?" Perhaps you have forgotten that the German allowed Varsovians to leave before they destroyed the city.

"Massacres of all Poles they could get by Western Ukrainians ?
Guess we'd best not talk about the massacres carries out by Polish forces eh?

"39-41 deportations to Siberia... ?"
Show me the deliberate attempt to exterminate the Poles in that? If Stalin had wanted them dead, why not just kill them all? Why expend percious resources getting them out of harm's way?

"Generalplan Ost... ?"
Which was put into practice when exactly? And didn't include the millions of Poles who decided that they were actually aryan and so signed up as Volkesdeutch.

"Har, once again you're trying to play a smart ass when in fact your knowledge is really tiny."
I'm the one who has been commissioned by major publishers to write two books about Poland. Please feel free to write to them and tell them I know **** all. Alternatively read the books and then post the errors on their Amazon.com pages.

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Ozi Dan
  May 3, 08, 19:51  #20

Harry:
Sure is in Poland.


I can only hope you'll write a balanced view then. Let us know when it comes out and we can reserve judgment then - or will your approach be the same as the tenor of your post?

Harry:
"39-41 deportations to Siberia... ?"
Show me the deliberate attempt to exterminate the Poles in that?


Isn't it simply implied by reason of what actually happened? If I send someone to wasteland to work and the corrolary of that, is in the main, death, then you tell me what the attempt was.

Do you really think the documentation would have survived or be in the public domain that showed the plan on paper.

It's rude to quibble the intent of the murderer when discussing the people of a nation who were hung, shot, tortured and raped by such a murderer. Please, give me details of some of your family or ancestors who were killed or murdered - I'll happily quibble with you.


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z_darius
  May 3, 08, 22:29  #21

Harry:
Show me the deliberate attempt to exterminate the Poles in that?

See Gestapo-NKVD conferences.

Pay special attention to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Conference in the article.


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Grzegorz_
  May 4, 08, 03:28  #22

Harry:
"39-41 deportations to Siberia... ?"
Show me the deliberate attempt to exterminate the Poles in that?


You're joking, right... ?


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Harry
Edited by: Harry  May 4, 08, 08:32  #23

Ozi Dan:
Isn't it simply implied by reason of what actually happened? If I send someone to wasteland to work and the corrolary of that, is in the main, death, then you tell me what the attempt was.

If Stalin had wanted the Poles to just die, why waste all the resources of sending them halfway round the world? Why not just shoot them on the spot?

Ozi Dan:
It's rude to quibble the intent of the murderer when discussing the people of a nation who were hung, shot, tortured and raped by such a murderer. Please, give me details of some of your family or ancestors who were killed or murdered - I'll happily quibble with you.

Both of my grandfathers lost two brothers each while fighting for Poland in WWII. And before that there's the small matter of my father's family fleeing genocide in Europe several generations back.

z_darius:
See Gestapo-NKVD conferences.

Pay special attention to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Conference in the article.


Well done. Now please tell me when this plan was attempted.

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Grzegorz_
  May 4, 08, 08:39  #24

Harry:
If Stalin had wanted the Poles to just die, why waste all the resources of sending them halfway round the world? Why not just shoot them on the spot?


If Hitler Wanted Jews to just die then why waste all the resources of sending them from the whole Europe to Auschwitz etc. ... Har, really... You are either a nastly provocator or a total moron...

Harry:
Both of my grandfathers lost two brothers each while fighting for Poland in WWII. And before that there's the small matter of my father's family fleeing genocide in Europe several generations back.


Oy...


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z_darius
  May 4, 08, 09:28  #25

Harry:
Well done. Now please tell me when this plan was attempted.

Start here, and then you're on your own.

Harry, I am not going to do your homework.

Plenty of information out there and I know you can find it. The only trick is that you need to want to accept the truth. For now your case appears to be hopeless.


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southern
Edited by: southern  May 4, 08, 09:46  #26

Grzegorz_:
what for example Latvia


Add all Baltics here.If you talk about Latvia you will be accused of trying to destabilize the country in favour of Russia.Truth is even Germans were amazed by the eagerness of baltics citizens to get rid of their Jews as quickly as possible.Baltics armoured forces were largely used for jewish extermination which they conducted with extreme brutality and obvious pleasure that shocked even the Germans who inspected them.There are still photos of these forces completing their work in mass graves,of course not sth commonly seen in newspapers.

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Ozi Dan
  May 4, 08, 15:29  #27

Harry:
If Stalin had wanted the Poles to just die, why waste all the resources of sending them halfway round the world? Why not just shoot them on the spot?


To send a message of terror, to prolong the agony, to denigrate and degrade for as long as possible, to show that Poles could be shunted anywhere by the Russians, to demonstrate that life or death was at a whim of the Russians - we could probably go on for quite a while.

What's your view on the issue? Why did he do those things? There can only be one conclusion can there?

Harry:
Both of my grandfathers lost two brothers each while fighting for Poland in WWII. And before that there's the small matter of my father's family fleeing genocide in Europe several generations back.


You're a sad specimen Harry if the above is true. Are you angry that your grand uncles died for Poland? I would be too if my ancestors died for a country that sheltered them after fleeing elsewhere from religious persecution.


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southern
  May 4, 08, 17:53  #28

Stalin wanted Poles out of eastern part of Poland eg Kresy.He wanted to integrate the whole area into Soviet Union.Probably the Poles who would become communists after education by bolshevics would survive in Siberia.The rest would end in gulags.

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JuliePotocka
  May 4, 08, 18:34  #29

So, let me see if I get this right: Harry is provoking us, to get us to do his research for us, so he can write a book off our notes!?

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Lukasz
Edited by: Lukasz  May 4, 08, 19:10  #30

so ok Michnik is Pole with Jewish origin. I don't agree with all points he makes I will post it bring some reallity to this disussion (never ending)

Author: Adam Michnik (editor-in-chief of Gazeta Wyborcza daily, former leader of anti-communist opposition, human rights activist, Pole and Jew)
Source: dialog.org. (Lecture given in July 1995 in Krakow, on a conference entitled “Polish remembrance - Jewish remembrance”, first published in Tygodnik Powszechny of 16th July 1995)



“On what Poles and Jews don’t like to remember”



http://polishpress.wordpress.com/?s=michnik

The problem of Jewish remembrance of Poland is anti-Semitism. But the problem of Polish remembrance, is that Poles often encounter hostility from Jews.


When we analyse the documents of Jews living in Poland - letters, diaries, and other documents - what we see in them is the love to the Polish ethos, to the Polish culture, to the Polish system of values. And that love was rejected. If I may, I will risk a thesis: the tension, the drama, the hurting on the Jewish side is the result of unrequited love mechanism. No one hates a man, like rejected wife or lover. And I think that is why there is the taboo in the Polish side.


Stanisław Krajewski wrote somewhere, that for two nations which see themselves as chosen nations, it is very difficult to coexist. We have had our Messianism, and Jews have had theirs. Jewish rabbi from United States, Mr Klenicki, said wisely that in the Polish-Jewish dialogue there are a lot of mistakes and vices on the Polish side, but on the Jewish side there is something what you could call “triumphalism of pain”: which means that only we, the Jews, have the right to pain, only we have the right to be the object of compassion as sufferers. While this is a perspective, which Poles will never accept. Poles have had their Auschwitz. Poles have had their executions, have had their martyrdom. To expect that the Poles will forget about this, is to not understand the essence of the Polish nation’s spirit.



And one more remark to Jean Kahn. When you create an image of allegedly only country, with concentration camps during the war, and pogroms after the war, the whole thing perfectly clicks together: Poles are a specific nation, which just dreams to persecute Jews. And when I hear such a thing, I am very afraid of it, for hundred of reasons. But three are the most important. First: because it’s a lie. Second: because it’s not good to stick to lies. Third: I went through this subject in the Balkans, what people in Croatia say about Serbs, and what people in Serbia say about Croats. So all of this is just untrue.


(...)

it is article form 1995 ... a lot has changed ... some points are still valid


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