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przypadki (language cases)

Karima Threads: 3
Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 5, 2007
  ♀   Jun 20, 2007, 10:36am  #

Hi ,coudl some nice (polish person) expline me something .
I want help some english speaker person part of gramatic polish : ''przypadki"
i dont know how ,is dificult . przypadki make parts or words is changing..Pls tellme which question i can use or whatever to help,, pls help

Goonie Threads: 10
Posts: 297
Joined: Mar 6, 2007
  ♂   Jun 20, 2007, 11:56am  #

type it in here and select polish

oddcast.com/home/demos/tts/tts_example.php?sitepal

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Jun 21, 2007, 07:12am  #

"Przypadki" means "cases", grammatical or otherwise.

The case tables have already been provided by Yvonka, myself and a few others who, unlike me, are either native speakers or Brits who've lived and worked in the EU.

Anyway, that's what it means. The singular, incidentally, is "przypadek"! In the plural form of all nouns ending with "-ek", "przypadek", "statek" (ship), etc., the final "t" inverts and the "e" disappears, therefore, "przypadek" > "przypadki" and NOT "przypadeki"!! Welcome to the vagueries of Polish (almost as insane as those of English spelling -:) )

Marek

Michal Threads: -
Posts: 2,398
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
  ♂   Jun 21, 2007, 02:55pm  #

The thing would be to show the person a table of grammatical execises, many books will show you how this is done, even some dictionaries will give examples.

Karima Threads: 3
Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 5, 2007
  ♀   Jun 21, 2007, 03:52pm  #

many thx to Goonie, Marek andMichal its dificult i understandbut formeits natural andi wasnt know how exlaintopersondont speak polish but thx You and some book maybeiwill :) thx again:)

Michal Threads: -
Posts: 2,398
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
  ♂   Jun 27, 2007, 10:28am  #

Polish grammar does seem difficult at first and a good book should help. It all seems a little stupid why you need to change things at all anyway as an example ja jest w Londyn i pracuie w biuro. Ja mam duzo kolegi i teraz siedzi tu w pokoj i czyta ksiazka. All the information is there and there is no need to know grammar to convey meaning. The funny thing about the Poles is that they do not want to say przepraszam but only the English word sorry and I even heard over the weekend on M jak Milosc-'to nie bylo fair' just as in English, not 'to nie jest fairowe! so it all depends on the Poles. When they do not want to know about grammatical declensions anything goes for them too.

qmate     Jun 28, 2007, 03:38pm  #

PRZYPADKI

I'm polish native speaker:) Polish is a beautiful language. English too. I learn English.

Dla ułatwienia radzę zapamiętać sobie pytania do każdego przypadka.
M. (kto, co?) kredka ----- kredki
D. (kogo, czego?) kredki ----- kredek
C. (komu, czemu?) kredce ----- kredkom
B. (kogo, co?)kredkę ----- kredki
N. (z kim, z czym?)kredką ----- kredkami
M. (o kim, o czym?)kredce ----- kredkach
W. (o!) kredko ----- kredki

przykład:
Koloruję obraz (czym?- you have to use N) KREDKAMI.

Dziecko zgubiło wszystkie swoje (co?) KREDKI.

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 4, 2007, 01:17pm  #

The Polish Przypadki are the most beautiful things on earth, despite the difficulties, non-Polish speakers might have in learning this language.
A language that works with a case-system is more rich ,more "intimate" more "close",so to speak, than languages that just make use of prepositions.
I love all Slavonic languages becouse of their case-system and to my humble opinion
Polish is theShining Sun amongst all other slavonic languages, becouse of its words, its orthography and case-endings....
I adore the Przypadki!!

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Jul 5, 2007, 07:21am  #

Eseva,
Nou, goeiemiddag!

Why you love the Slavonic cases I can well understand (being myself also fluent in Dutch) being that Dutch has lost almost all of theirs.

Marek

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 5, 2007, 12:34pm  #

Hoi Marek,

Oh yes ,Dutch language used to have 4 cases ("naamvallen") as in German, but now they are in disuse, they just survived in old sayings, poems and expressions...our once so beautiful and rich ,Dutch language is so deteriorated...

De Polen zijn goed in vreemde talen en ik begrijp dat je vloeiend Nederlands spreekt....:
In de nederlandse taal zijn de naamvallen helaas zo goed als verdwenen, ze leven nog slechts voort in spreekwoorden, gedichten en uitdrukkingen.... That's why I love the Polish (and other)languages
.So let me say:long live the..

M.
D.
B.
C.
N.
Ms.
W. !! :-)

Eseva.

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 5, 2007, 12:35pm  #

with other languages I meant to say the Slavonic ones ,mainly....

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Jul 5, 2007, 02:50pm  #

Nou, de Polen zijn niet echt goed, hebben toch geduld, toen buitenlanders zoals ik hun taal spreken. -:)

Marek
Typisch voor de Polen, als ze proberen, Engels te spreken: "Ai ahmm stahsjink ahtt ooniwersituh Ienglisch lahngwitsch,, trrraijink tu betterrr spikink.....

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Marek  Jul 6, 2007, 07:06am  #

Hoi, hoi Eseva!

Tak, plynnie mówie po holundersku, ja, ik kan vloeiend Nederlands, omdat ik 't privé hadde gelerd 'n daarna op de universiteit gestudeerd. Ik ben ook einige dagen in Nederland geweest, toevallig was m'n vriendin Haagse!

Ale moze tu jest lepiej, "chatowac" po polsku (albo po angielsku!). Jak dobrze (Hoe goed) mówisz po angielsku (spreek je al Engels)? Czy czytasz literature klasysczna w jezyku angielskim? (Lees je burgerlijke literatuur in 't Engels?)

Pa!
Marek

DLA ADMINYSTRATORÓW:

Eseva and I were posting regarding my fluency in Dutch and Polish. I asked about how good the level of English is, as well as whether the person also reads solid bourgeoise prose fiction. That was it!

Decorator Threads: 5
Posts: 404
Joined: Aug 26, 2006
  ♂   Jul 6, 2007, 07:11am  #

I understood Marek i lived in Holland for 4 years.. :-)

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 6, 2007, 03:28pm  #

Hoi
Marek, well ,with engish I have less trouble as with Polish....I must admit that my pronunciation leaves a lot to be desired....

W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie.........:-)

sorry ...no ogonki......
Eseva.

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 6, 2007, 04:43pm  #

Yes I read english books sometimes ,ja ik lees wel engelstalige boeken.
Weet je dat Pan Tadeusz van Adam Mickiewicz in het Nederlands is uitgegeven?

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Marek  Jul 7, 2007, 03:03pm  #

Hoi, Eseva!

Ik ken toch Mickiewicz en andere schrijvers (in 't Pools), b.v. Slowiacki en Sienkiewicz enz.

Trouwens ken ik ook deze tongebreker. In 't Duits: "Der Kaefer summt im Schilf. " = The beetle buzzes in the reeds (bullrushes).

Maar ik moet alleein een fout verbeteren: "....I have less trouble THAN with Polish.."

Daaaag!
Marek

PS
"Enige" heb ik fout gespellt.("Einige" is al Duits!)

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Jul 8, 2007, 12:37am  #

Hoi Marek,

Ok dziekuje bardzo...but his name is Slowacki....not Slowiacki... ;-)

Pa, doei! Eseva.

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Jul 8, 2007, 01:48pm  #

Wiem, ze moja ortografia jest blada.
Rowniez!

Marek

NativeAmerican     Sep 8, 2007, 04:51pm  #

Quoting: Eseva
The Polish Przypadki are the most beautiful things on earth, despite the difficulties, non-Polish speakers might have in learning this language.
A language that works with a case-system is more rich ,more "intimate" more "close",so to speak, than languages that just make use of prepositions.


Least we forget, English has cases, too! They exist throughout Germanic languages as well as Slavic languages. The cases in the English language were simplified after the Norman invasion of England in 1066. For this same reason, many names in English of cooked animals are different than the names of the living animal - the dead animal names are French because the Normans were the aristocracy and they didn't have to deal with live animals; they only had to deal with the animals on their plates - but I digress.

Cases are not necessary to human syntax. Most Asian languages don't have cases and only a handful of tenses, at the most.

Cases do, however, allow for a kind of subtly that would otherwise not be possible (not in the same way, anyhow). But Polish has TOO MANY friggin' cases! Any language that has more cases than Latin deserves to die because it it too complicated! As I would often joke when at the pub with my friends: "I have to drink more - I'm not drunk enough to speak Polish yet." :D

Icelandic is quite nice... 4 cases (the same 4 that appear in English) regularly used with pretty straight forward grammatical usage rules (not to mention some funny grammar) plus some wicked-awesome vowels! Of all Germanic languages, I think Icelandic is the winner, just as I think Polish, despite its case system, is the winner for Slavic languages.

Enough of this rant. Have a good night/mornings wherever you are.

Eseva Threads: 1
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 4, 2007
  ♀   Sep 9, 2007, 02:58pm  #

You are insulting Polish people ,Polish culture and the Polish language itself by uttering "that any language that has more cases than Latin deserves to die"......
This is unacceptable!!

You Americans! Don't think you are superior to anything and anyone!!

NativeAmerican     Edited by: NativeAmerican  Sep 9, 2007, 03:11pm  #

Quoting: Eseva
You are insulting Polish people ,Polish culture and the Polish language itself by uttering "that any language that has more cases than Latin deserves to die"......
This is unacceptable!!

You Americans! Don't think you are superior to anything and anyone!!


1. You misquoted me. My statement was: "Any language that has more cases than Latin deserves to die because it it too complicated!"

2. It was a joke, hence the smiley emocon.

3. Get off your high horse.

4. No, we Americans don't think we are superior anything and anyone; thanks for noticing.

Wroclaw Threads: 73
Posts: 7,297
Joined: Apr 1, 2006
  ♂   Sep 9, 2007, 03:15pm  #

Quoting: Eseva
You are insulting Polish people ,Polish culture and the Polish language itself by uttering "that any language that has more cases than Latin deserves to die"......
This is unacceptable!!


Quoting: NativeAmerican
As I would often joke when at the pub with my friends:


I found post number 20 informative and not at all insulting.

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Sep 12, 2007, 10:45am  #

Native American!
As a linguist and speaker of various Slavic as well as Germanic languages, I must disagree with your tack. One cannot in good conscience say, "a language has too many cases!"... etc. or that a language is too complicated.

The latter simply suggests a personal frustration with that particular language. Icelandic, which you mention, is an especially rich and textured language, and, like Polish, rich in inflection, which is what endows it with its own particular music.

Marek

HAL9009 Threads: 2
Posts: 337
Joined: Mar 13, 2007
  ♂   Sep 12, 2007, 07:11pm  #

Try Finnish - 15 cases - and tougher than Polish to learn (I think), but both are such a richly rewarding experience :) - I still haven't got the hang of Polish cases though, but getting there.

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Marek  Sep 13, 2007, 09:24am  #

HAL!

Finnish, as with other related Uralic tongues, shares with the Baltic group along with the more "conservative" languages, a richly intricate morphology.

Polish, slightly more Latinized though in its higher-level vocabulary, retains this intricacy.

Marek

Atrop Threads: 3
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep 5, 2007
  ♂   Sep 13, 2007, 10:08am  #

Try Norwegian ,and you'll bore your ass of ,hehe.

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Sep 13, 2007, 12:32pm  #

Norwegian is relatively easy for me, having already studied the two other Scandinavian languages Danish and Swedish.

It is though, far more polarized than either of these two, since there are essentially three official "languages" in Norway; Bokmaal, Riksmaal (formerly Dano-Norwegian) and Nynorsk (formerly "landsmaal").

Snakker du tilfaeldigt norsk??
Marek

Anymous     Nov 27, 2007, 01:43pm  #

Hello! I have a question:

how do you say :

w 1385 roku?

my email: ihateyou4dead@yahoo.fr

Marek Threads: 4
Posts: 1,106
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
  ♂   Nov 29, 2007, 09:27am  #

In English phonetics, roughly

V-sound (but NOT 'vee', more schwa 'vuh') TEWSHYAWWNTS TRISTA AWSSHYEM
GYEHSHAWNTUHM PYAWNTUHM RAWKOO and all, except for the 'gyeSHAWNTUHM'
part, accented on the first or primary syllable.

In Polish 'Tysiąc trysta osiemdziesiątym piątym ..' etc.

Hope this helps a little!



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przypadki (language cases)

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