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Polish health system one of the worst in Europe: report

Amathyst Threads: 23
Posts: 3,486
Joined: Nov 10, 2006
  ♀   May 18, 2012, 09:10pm  #

Foreigner4:
What we should be looking at are facts and how those facts are gathered


The facts are that every health service has its down sides and it generally depends on where you live and in a lot of cases what you can afford, even in the UK! Whilst people are boasting about the NHS - all my family work within and yet both my sisters have insisted on getting their daughers vacinated against cervical cancer privately because what is offered on the NHS is poor and lacking to say the least!, they are medical experts and wouldnt let their kids be treated by the NHS, whilst that is anecdotal, its got to count for something since they work for the system we are talking about?

gdyniaguy:
Postcode lottery or not the NHS is one on the wonders of the world.


No it's not, its a joke, do you know how many maternity units have been closed in the last year? Do you know how much funding has been cut, whilst untilties and food costs rise the amount the NHS are receiving has decreased! I very much doubt it, so if I were you, Id keep quiet, I appreciate your family have decent treatment, but you really have no idea.

Foreigner4 Threads: 20
Posts: 2,480
Joined: Nov 18, 2007
  ♂   May 18, 2012, 09:29pm  #

Amathyst:
The facts are that every health service has its down sides and it generally depends on where you live and in a lot of cases what you can afford, even in the UK!

Thank you Cpt. Obvious.
Now I will challenge you for that rank and say it's not a question of having down sides but how those are addressed and a question of how timely those reactions are. In Poland, it seems that shortcomings are not addressed. They are stated and acknowledged but then excuses are made, fingers are pointed and then no one's accountable and then things go on being shite year after year.
Peace.

Meathead Threads: 5
Posts: 614
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 06:08am  #

gdyniaguy:
Hi Peter

I use private care in Poland and all i can say is that it's definately worse then the most useless of NHS trusts you may get a fast scan but the doctors wont even look at the scans/results unless you constantly badger them. The standard of care in Poland has more to do with the standard of teaching of medical staff and not the glossy facilities the hospitals have.

My mother was a nurse in the frontline NHS from 1965 until she retired last year (continously training to keep up her Nursing registration) and therefore I know the dedication and work that every worker puts into it. So what if it only came 12th in europe (the other 11 are part private i assume) my experiences and those of my friends and family are positive. In fact when my dad was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer the nhs gave him 500% care.

I'd love to see how the US compares.



The best in the World because they put the most resources into it (16% of GDP). You don't get something for nothing. Americans value healthcare, Poland and England do not. Their approach is more fatalistic. My sister-in-law went to Spain for cancer treatment because the Spanish doctors treat cancer more aggressively than the English. My father-in-law was dying of cancer and put in a ward (not a room) with peeling paint on the walls. My other sister-in-law had to wait two years for a hernia operation. The problem with American health care is the cost not the care.

peterweg Threads: 49
Posts: 2,722
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: peterweg  May 19, 2012, 09:46am  #

Meathead:
The best in the World because they put the most resources into it (16% of GDP).


Its 34th in the world because its a disorganized mess, the US is throwing away half its expenditure due to inefficiency. As a result American suffer health problems and die younger than their foreign equivalents.

And, its not personal wealth that determines quality either, it was published a couple of years ago that the richest 50 year old American was in significantly poorer health than the poorest British person.

The US health system is a failure at keeping American's healthy and its doubtful spending any more money will ever correct it.

Before you get into the US is best at anything just remember the US is not best, not even in the top ten, in anything to do with health, education, development.

Amathyst

Well put.

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 03:57pm  #

Peterweg,Then why do people from all over the world flock to MGH, Dana Farber cancer institute and Boston childrens Hospital.
Boston Medical center is noted as the best for trauma cases.It is a well known fact that Boston has some of the best hospitals
in the world.

isthatu2 Threads: 8
Posts: 4,166
Joined: Apr 3, 2008
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 04:11pm  #

People *flock* to where the treatment is.
In a fair world there would be no such thing as the disgusting use of copyrights and patents in the medical/pharmacutical world,most of the major breakthroughs were made by MDs and Chemists working altruisticaly and then releasing the findings,these days every little nudge forwards seems to be controlled by money,not how much research costs but how much profit can be milked for shareholders,frikkin disgusting.
So,for unregulated,no questions asked transplant procedures people *flock* to commie China,not because its *the best* but simply thats where the treatment is,same as when people *flock* to the US for some experimental procedure.

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 04:22pm  #

Ishatu2, Do some research and check out their track records.They are not noted for these things for no reason.If they "flock" to where
the treatment is,Especially the filthy rich;there is a reason for this.Boston doesn't have the only facilities in the world,But they do have
some of the best.This is fact.

peterweg Threads: 49
Posts: 2,722
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 05:07pm  #

p3undone:
Boston Medical center is noted as the best for trauma cases.It is a well known fact that Boston has some of the best hospitals
in the world.


An US doctor explained it thus: US has good treatment but not any sort of healthcare system (funny, my US spell checker doesn't recognize healthcare as a word).

To explain, the US treats symptoms and diseases, what they don't do is have a system to prevent and predict those diseases and prevent them killing you.

Boston hospitals are, no doubt, great places to die.

isthatu2 Threads: 8
Posts: 4,166
Joined: Apr 3, 2008
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 09:02pm  #

Yes,but you fail to see the obvious.
Why does anyone in the US have to flock to Boston for treatment? Why is the same level of treatment,ie,knowledge and expertise, not available across the entire US.
If one person/unit can do something others can do it too,so why not?
After all,as I said,most of the building blocks of modern medicine and chemistry were shared widly for the benefit of the many,why now are people happy in the US to boast that the best advantages are only to be had in one or two places and only for the super rich?
Bit barbaric isnt it? Basically it shows that its all about money,nothing about healthcare.

PlasticPole Threads: 10
Posts: 4,922
Joined: May 28, 2009
  ♀   May 19, 2012, 09:48pm  #

isthatu2:
Why is the same level of treatment,ie,knowledge and expertise, not available across the entire US.
If one person/unit can do something others can do it too,so why not?

For the same reason it varies across Europe.

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 11:09pm  #

Peterweg,Where does?Ishatu2,I agree with what you say about the money;it is disgusting.My response about Boston's hospitals was
directed at Peterweg.I am not saying that the U.S. has the best health care in the world,It is lacking.All's I was saying is that Boston
has several of the top hospitals in the world.

isthatu2 Threads: 8
Posts: 4,166
Joined: Apr 3, 2008
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 11:12pm  #

PlasticPole:
For the same reason it varies across Europe.

Yes,but Europe is seperate countries,the US, *one people/nation undivisable*,or is that just more fake patriotic BS?
Thats why I kept it to the US, not muddying the waters with issues of actually doing things for the benefit of mankind,but,it would be nice to think nations did things for the benefit of their own little share of mankind.
To sort it out though you would need to rip that obscene system you have in place apart, a system where most of the money is made by people with no skills beyond shifting money around is not healthcare.
No wonder in the US Doctors come out either top or second only to Lawyers in lists of most hated profesionals,I dont think there is anywhere else in the world where Doctors would even come in the top 50 of hated profesionals and if they did they would be of the Quack type or plastic surgeons......
So,simply, the Super Rich traditionaly lived in New England (the old families) therefore the Hospitals there set up to make money charged the most, charging so much they were able to offer silly wages to Doctors and all of a sudden the incentive in US medicine is to make as much money as possible, the ones who had the most invested in them were able to specialise,with all the money floating around from Rich patrons no need to pay the bills doing boring stuff. So ,the most money is invested in one place,its all about keeping the money so of course there is still a high percentage of the *best* facilities in new England.....interestingly those Hospitals were often bastions of good old Yankee Anti Sematism hence the other top Hospitals tend to be called Mount Zion.....

PlasticPole Threads: 10
Posts: 4,922
Joined: May 28, 2009
  ♀   May 19, 2012, 11:15pm  #

Don't European doctors travel around, with the best ones going to the best locations? This, and lack of funding in certain areas, means the health care services won't be equal everywhere. Same problem exist throughout the world. Specialists like to go to the exciting places while ignoring the boring ones so shortages exist. Plus, they want to make the most money. They go where the fun and the money are. Funny how the most exciting places also pay more.

isthatu2 Threads: 8
Posts: 4,166
Joined: Apr 3, 2008
  ♂   May 19, 2012, 11:21pm  #

PlasticPole:
Don't European doctors travel around, with the best ones going to the best locations?

Yes,but Joe the long term unemployed plumber from North East England will get the treatment he needs from Sir lancelot Spratt at King Arthurs Royal Hospital Old London towne if he develops Cancer.
Joe the long term unemployed plumber from Oregon is not getting treatment from Doc Silverstienberg in St Elswhere Boston Mass. is he?

PlasticPole Threads: 10
Posts: 4,922
Joined: May 28, 2009
  ♀   May 19, 2012, 11:27pm  #

There could be a pretty good doc in Oregon. It's nice up there. It's rural areas in the south and midwest that face shortages. Most cities can scrape together a handful of good doctors. Sometimes, patients will travel as far away as India to get treatment, though. People do travel if need be.

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 01:26am  #

I'm not filthy rich and I get treatment at Mass general and Boston Medical center.These hospitals will not turn you away.

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 02:14am  #

Ishatu2,How many other hospitals are called Mt.Zion in the U.S.?

rybnik Threads: 34
Posts: 2,155
Joined: Jan 16, 2011
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 04:23am  #

Here in the New York area there are none. Mount Sinai yes, Mount Zion no.

pam Threads: 26
Posts: 1,328
Joined: Oct 11, 2011
  ♀ Moderator   May 20, 2012, 10:25am  #

Amathyst:
Whilst people are boasting about the NHS - all my family work within and yet both my sisters have insisted on getting their daughers vacinated against cervical cancer privately because what is offered on the NHS is poor and lacking to say the least!, they are medical experts and wouldnt let their kids be treated by the NHS, whilst that is anecdotal, its got to count for something since they work for the system we are talking about?
whilst i agree with this post, what can you really expect these days from the nhs? it was set up over 60 years ago now, when the uk population was some 11,000,000 people less than we have today( 1951 census,50m people, 2011 approx 61,113,205). no wonder it is struggling to cope. yes the system isnt perfect because there simply isnt enough money being ploughed into it, but at least we do have a free healthcare system,which is a lot more than can be said for other countries.

modafinil Threads: -
Posts: 644
Joined: Jun 28, 2011
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 10:29am  #

p3undone:
,How many other hospitals are called Mt.Zion in the U.S.?


There is a hospital in California named Mount Aingoat.

peterweg Threads: 49
Posts: 2,722
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 11:44am  #

pam:
because there simply isnt enough money being ploughed into it, but at least we do have a free healthcare system,which is a lot more than can be said for other countries.


There is a lot of money being put into it. UK has a very high GDP and is putting a large part of it into health care

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11686396

p3undone Threads: 15
Posts: 3,085
Joined: Jan 12, 2012
  ♂   May 20, 2012, 12:31pm  #

I know of Mt.Sinai.I'm wondering what Ishatu2 is talking about.

Patrycja19 Threads: 79
Posts: 3,848
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
  ♀   May 20, 2012, 05:58pm  #

Wizard:
I know a Polish guy


no no stop, lets all be honest here, you know a whole nation of Polish people.

Wizard:
but when he went back, the Polish doctor was working in Germany and wouldn't be back for several days. So he had to prolong that trip to wait for the doc


in Canada you have to wait too, my co-workers mom has heart trouble, she was supposed to have a echocardiogram
and some other tests run , but the doctor took a vacation and wasnt avail , with no coverage and so something as important
as your heart you would think they would at least have a doctor avail for the patients to come to during his absence.

But where i live, the doctors cover each other, so the patient doesnt have to wait, thats how it should be.

Klaudiiiia     Nov 11, 2013, 09:32pm  #

Funny.
its definitely better than in the UK.
Guaranteed.
probably other countries too.
Maybe its just your experience.
but just dont be so judgemental straight away.

Wlodzimierz Threads: 5
Posts: 818
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
  ♂   Nov 11, 2013, 09:45pm  #

For routine stuff, getting blood pressure checked, obtaining information about run-of-the-mill ailments without imagining the doctor's going to trick you just to get more money out of the deal (worse yet, NOT tell you about something because he WON'T make a goldmine off of you!!!), any place has got to be better than the US. If women's services are bad right here in NYC, how lacking must they be throughout the rest of the country??

Admittedly though, for more complicated, delicate procedures, involved plastic surgery etc..., the US probably still leads the way. Hey, I'm the first to admit it when my country does something right:-)



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Polish health system one of the worst in Europe: report

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