Are there many atheists and agnostics in poland?

I used to be agnostic, now I'm not so sure

Look, you just don't know what you are talking about. The law is about 12 days in a year , most of which aren't relgious holidays and It doesn't say that they must be closed - If only the owners work then they may be opened. The law was passed under pressure of trade unions - there are similar laws in many European countries, so stop spreading your anti-Catholic phobia.

You are correct, the law covers national holidays. Your also most likely not reading the posts because I already stated the loophole.

* 1 stycznia - Nowy Rok, New Years
* pierwszy dzień Wielkiej Nocy, First day of Easter
* drugi dzień Wielkiej Nocy,Holy Monday
* 1 maja - Święto Państwowe,Constitution Day
* 3 maja - Święto Narodowe Trzeciego Maja, Labor Day
* pierwszy dzień Zielonych Świątek,Longest Day and Shortest Night of Year, The holy spirit coming down to earth. Originally a Pagan tradition that was adapted to include the "holy spirit"
* dzień Bożego Ciała,God's Body
* 15 sierpnia - Wniebowzięcie Najświętszej Maryi Panny, Assumption of Virgin Mary
* 1 listopada - Wszystkich Świętych,All Saints Day
* 11 listopada - Narodowe Święto Niepodległości,National Independence Day
* 25 grudnia - pierwszy dzień Bożego Narodzenia, Christmas
* 26 grudnia - drugi dzień Bożego Narodzenia, Christmas

Only 4 of these days do not include the Christian religion. The fact the unions help pushed this law doesn't change the fact that many Polish feel like you do. Anyone against the belief that Jesus is our savior is wrong and should as you so nicely put it, "get out". Last time I checked there aren't many places on this earth for me to go to. We are not a well liked reality of people on this planet. So phobia of all religion in my case is pretty warranted.

Pardon me, but may i ask your age? only this is usually the opinion of someone rather young.
Accepted that Religion can be oppressive, but people still need hope and faith, regardless of whether the world is round or flat, if it makes people happy knowing either then whats the problem?


And if you're wondering, I'm a Leonist by religion.

I'm 29. Not really old, but lived long enough to get a lot of hate for the beliefs I lack. I have no issue with faith. I have issues with faith and politics mixing. This is a reality in Poland and to be honest many countries in the world. I can say a similar thing about countries like the U.S., Iran and Japan. The point I'm trying to put across is that tolerance is not common in this country or many others when it comes to religion. But me speaking out about it normally gets responses that I am not tolerant because I do not agree with politics mixed with religion. Anyways this thread has gone long enough for me. Personally I really like Poland, it's really only this part of life in this country that bothers me.

I almost find funny (to some extent) that anticlerical people, in Western countries where there is separation of Church and State, regard religions as if they were like small clubs for a few people, therefore not understanding why one should rule over society.

The point is that all big religions or doctrines, be it Judaism, Christianism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism shaped entire civilizations for milleniums. The above example with religious holidays in our countries shows the source of our culture, as does law which is greatly inspired by the moral principles of religion. Two centuries of post-revolutionary secular society couldn't really wipe anything, as it's deeply rooted in us.

Whether you are aware of it or not, even if you describe yourself as atheists because you don't believe in God and never go to Church, you are Christians anyway because you are the product of this society and there is a great chance that your moral principles are in accordance with it, because you were educated to behave in society according to the traditions, and according to the law (I say "Christians" here, thinking of the vast majority of native Europeans - there are of course exceptions but you got my point).

Interesting? Would the situation bothered you equally if it was a non-religious holiday? Or are you just against any holidays and for the right to buy eggs everyday in year?

To Moonlighting:
Ooh, i was with you there until the end.

I am not Christian because of my society, moral principles or original government structure, but i think there is a difference in our points here.

Mine are made more on an individual level, yours are more nationally and I respect that.

But just because the Bible says 'Don't kill people', and i don't, it does not make me a Christian. I simply live by common sense and try to do my best for people, be helpful, honest and try to get on with everyone. I am not capable of hate for another human being, but these are my own rules and my own life and that of my family and friends benefit from them.

You say they are in accordance but what would you have me do to not be Christian? rape? pillage? covert my neighbours ox? (oo-er!)

I appreciate what you are saying, but i think this is two-way here. Having not been brought up in your society/country (Belgium?) and as you have not been raised in mine, i'm afraid there may be some things beyond each of our own comprehensions.
I guess thats the real test of 'Tolerance' huh? to accept others' opinions no matter how much they differ from your own.
Thanks for your comments.


To Jkn005: I'm sure there is more to your story than you would be prepared to print, or have space for! but it wasnt that long ago i felt very much the same. No i havent been 'saved' since then or anything like that so dont worry, there are no lectures heading your way from me!
But i accept again that i am incapable of understanding the situation you have in Poland, i wish you all the best.

Think i'll leave this for now too, i should have learned my lessons in the past about religious discussion, but there can be such a thing as a 'healthy argument' so i hope everyone gained something at least.

Play nicely now!

This day could be replaced by some other important religious holiday. Except few weird commies nobody seriously celebrate this occasion, this is just a free day. While religious holidays are celebrated at least by some part of the society, for the rest it would be the same free day like labor day.

Hello. I got your point but it's not common sense for everybody. You would be surprised! I have a friend who is a psychologist. For several years she worked as an expert for the justice court, to expertise criminals and conclude whether they committed a crime because they are bastards, psychos or people who have a completely different perception of what's wrong or right. Some people are perfectly healthy, intelligent and logical, however they're at the complete opposite of what society generally allows or disallow, even for the most serious crimes.
If your own morals and behaviour allow you to live peacefully with your neighbours, it is just fine ;-)

Well ur buddy does say u are smart but i wouldn't think u are based on ur posts. Ur doing a red herring we aren't talking about america we r talking about poland! I didn't know it had to do with trade unions! The concept of a church forcing citizens of a country to abide by its rules because it infiltrated the government is a sick concept in my opinion! Wats next? EVERY1 WHO LIVES IN POLAND HAS TO ATTEND ASH WEDNESDAY AND GO TO CONFESSION IN ADDITION TO CELEBRATING CATHOLIC HOLIDAYS!

Im fully aware that in the USA the bible bet has alot of political pull and none of them believe in evolution. They don't speak for the more progressive areas though the USA is extremely diverse much more so than poland!

I don't know, actually: I'm half Jewish (Mom), half Protestant (Dad), a lot of my friends are Catholic and I have been to Synagogues, Protant-churches and Catholic churches. They tell me that Protestants are more strict in their religious devoutness than Catholics, but I cannot tell the difference, besides the absence of statues in Protestant Churches. Also, I noticed a significant difference in the Catholics in Holland and the Catholics in Ireland and Poland. I liked the singing though :)
And as far as the Darwin theory is concerned: many religious person would point out that it's only a THEORY. Well, that may be true, but then again: religion is also a theory for that matter. And besides all this, I just find the Darwin theory logically much more convincing than the idea that we all were suddenly there or all descent from Adam and Eve; if this last bit were true, wouldn't we all be inbred retards? Hm... And looking at some ppl and some apes, it's not that hard to imagine that us and the apes have a shared anchestor :)

M-G (prefers to choose nothing actually, but would not call himself an atheist)

I don't have to say... this is quite obvious...



So now you know. Aren't you grateful ?

That would make you an Agnostic, wouldn't it?
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Could be, although I basically prefer to stay away from religion as far as I possibly can - seeing the things ppl have done in it's name in the past.

M-G

Agnosticism is a philosophy and not a religion - I think you fit the profile, like it or not :)
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NO I AM A BIT APPALLED! It wouldn't suprise me if the church infiltrated the unions in addition to the government! The catholic church is a very corrupt institution. If and when it collapses the world economy will b much better! The silly sadistic pedofiles that don't do anything to help a community will have to get REAL jobs that will benefit the community! I believe priests r like "abstinent" con artists who trick ppl into believing things for their own benefit!
LOOK AT THE VATICAN EVER BEEN THERE? HOW MUCH GOLD AND PRICELESS ART IS THERE? If jesus came again he WOULD BE DISGUSTED TO C POOR PEOPLE IN RAGS AND A SYMBOL OF HIM CARVED IN GOD AND DRAPED WITH GEMS! He would have to die again to forgive all the immorality that is taking place today and claiming to be the "word of god". A stupid pope and a ridiculous power hiearchy giving the few control over the many! The ridiculous pope who claims to be the closest to god and yet sits on a thrown made of gold! RELIGIONS THAT CLAIM TO HELP PPL YET HAVE A POSH CHURCH THAT IS WORTH BILLIONS JUST SITTING THERE IS A PHONEY!
I don't think he was a god or a son of a god so his 2nd coming probably wont happen.