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A Polish scientist (allegedly) caused AIDS

SeanBM Threads: 45
Posts: 7,642
Joined: Mar 10, 2008
  ♂   Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 7, 2010, 03:40pm  #

Seanus:
OK, you will put "not one" at me again, that's fine. I'll interpret that as a sign of weakly-framed questions.

Are you playing silly now? You continue to refuse to answer my questions.
Again:
My questions are:

Am I understanding you correctly, The two most populated countries in the world are India and China but it is Africa that the U.S. want to kill off for population control?

Because the countries in Africa are such a threat?

So this AIDs doctor has the antidote and they made this disease, that people can live with now with the proper medication, in affect making it not the best of weapons and they want to kill off Africans, even though China and India are the most populated countries in the world.

You still have not clearly said what the the theory is, the U.S. invented AIDs to keep the population of Africa in check, is that the whole point or did I miss something?

Seanus:
"World-Wide scourge and black-death type plague in certain geographical areas of the world."'.

You see it is this, as well as many more things that fail in your theory.
"Certain geographical areas" but it is world wide.

Every country in the world is effected by AIDs, why would anyone want to kill their own people. It can't be a weapon because it is indiscriminate.

For example you believe that 9/11 was carried out by the American government, that Americans killed their own people.
Now you believe that the American government invented AIDs, have a cure and in a dastardly plan to kill off Africans, set this "weapon" that can take many years to kill among the populous, in effect killing the American people again.
It is thought that more than one million people are living with HIV in the USA and that more than half a million have died after developing AIDS.

U.S. Statistics

Malaria kills many more people than AIDs, did they invent that too?

So why do your theories involve Americans killing themselves?

So Americans are so devious that they invent HIV as a "weapon" but they didn't think it would effect them? They are killing their own people but have a vaccine? This is totally illogical.

Seanus:
Yes, those notions are damaging but I have no direct involvement in them whatsoever

You perpetuate the conspiracy theory and call it conspiracy FACT, that is involvement enough.

Seanus:
There were multiple experiments conducted and doesn't it strike you as odd that AIDS occurred simultaneously in NYC and Africa? Please explain to me why NO tissue samples taken from Africans in the early 1970's showed the HIV virus yet there was a catalysing event later in the decade.

Because know one knew what it was and it was already world wide at that stage.
Or are you again suggesting that the Americans are killing their own people?


AIDS has killed roughly 25 million people since it burst on the scene in 1981. But new research by a U.S. medical sleuth suggests that AIDS had been around for many decades, and maybe even a century, before the epidemic began.

Encycolpedia Britannica

Seanus:
What I do find surprising, though, is that the WHO's inoculation programs started in 1960 and continued up to 1977. This tends to undermine the case of the conspiracy theorists.

How?

Seanus:
"Prostitution alone cannot explain the high incidence of AIDS", is a direct quote from what I said. You clearly weren't focussing when you asked "Are you saying that prostitution is the only way to contract the AIDs???". 2 or 3 times above I have referred to sex tourism, the blood industry and the drug trade. True or not? Given that HIV is a rapidly mutating and virulent virus, I wouldn't say otherwise. Transmission is from more than one source, clear??

You are stating, "Prostitution alone cannot explain the high incidence of AIDS" we both agree that it is not and then use it as an argument? Naw man, you are not gonna do that.
You are implying that it was used as a weapon. I am saying that prostitution is not the only way tHIV is spread. I know full well what I am saying even if you are evasive and trying to derail my post.

Seanus:
I see the same words coming from you, Seanny, but little structured argument.

if you bothered to ANSWER MY QUESTIONS perhaps you would actually understand what my argument is. But you just bull right through.

Seanus:
I don't know why so many Mexicans are allowed into the US but I guess cheap labour plays a major part. That's another discussion. Yes, it's a tough balance.

So the AMericans are killing their own people to "balance" population and at the same time have huge amounts of illegal immigrants.
And you have nothing to say except it is a balance? you are off your head, you are not using any logic at all.

Seanus:
You really seem blind to how things work outside conventional perspectives. Sorry to say it but it's glaringly obvious from reading your posts.

I do a really strange thing and use logic, you should try it some time.

Seanus:
pharmaceutical profits are just realities, you can't deny them.

Deny it??? I brought it into this discussion on post 92# and now you are using it against me??? hahaha because I was using it as an argument against your ludicrous conspiracy that America have a cure and continue to kill their own people.


Seanus:
Are you even remotely aware of how America has been operating behind closed doors?

No but I understand that you living in Poland are privy to all sorts of top sectret info that somehow always leads to America being the bad guys and killing their own people.

Seanus:
Malaria wouldn't be a good sell to questioning minds as they'd see right through it. It's from the anopheles (female) mosquito and we both know that.

What? what has a female mosquito got to do with anything???
Malaria has killed more people than AIDs.

Seanus:
So, to be straight Seanny, how do you think AIDS came about? From a green monkey? LOL

Where I think HIV came from is not the question, I am refuting your ridiculous conspiracy theory, that the Americans invented AIDs as a "weapon"to kill of Africans for population control, mean while millions of American civilians have died and the Americans have a cure.

There is some interesting research about AIDs being an old disease, Genetic HIV Resistance Deciphered.
Seanus Threads: 19
Posts: 28,093
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Seanus  Mar 7, 2010, 04:13pm  #

OK, here we go. Personally, I don't believe that Africa posed a threat at all. That was the view of the Masonic/Illuminati morons. First point!

Second point, I'm not going to unequivocally state the agenda of the then US administration. They wanted a program, that much was admitted by them, and they secured a $10 million grant. That's a lot of money for a mere deterrent, wouldn't you say? Africa seemed to be a sitting duck and ripe for the pickings. India and China at least had some chance to combat it.

I don't believe in using AIDS as a political tool, what's so hard to understand about that? I do believe that it was wheeled out in an opportunistic fashion. I don't endorse it. In fact, I positively condemn it.

What I'm saying as an undeniable fact is that there were human guinea pigs used in NYC and the virus spread from there. No, all that's involved is for the virus to be leaked in the name of experimentation and it's out of control if the authorities do nothing. It's against the Helsinki Declaration. AIDS wasn't discovered til 1984 by Gallo, the spread was visible before then.

How? Because they say that whole blood inoculations caused AIDS. It's against the Hippocratic Oath to kill as prevention of harm is golden. If those inoculations were being administered in the 60's, how could it be that no tissue samples showed it? Selective sampling against probability? Still, my following paragraph above outlines the timeframe which is coherent and shows a corollary.

Wow, I wasn't trying to derail anything. All I wanted to say was that they have had established sex trades and promiscuity for decades, thus a prime contender for a spreading of the virus. China had a one-child policy in place and, even then, daughters were often drowned so they were left without kids. Thailand and Africa were/are fertile breeding grounds and that's what I wanted to say. This isn't a gun, this is circulating sth within a community that mutates and, according to some authorities, cannot be cured.

Questions answered, I hope ;0 ;) ;)

The balance was in reference to the profits of the pharmaceutical companies Vs population control, the balance we had alluded to before.

Let me be crystal clear for the last time.

1) Guinea pigs
2) Spreading
3) Problem

Simple, right? Not constant killing, just an experiment went wrong.

Using it against you?? No, just stating facts. If you hadn't already noticed, I made the point that there would be swine flu or sth similar and many here can back me up. It was a golden chance for the pharmaceutical companies to profit by creating new business.

There are books in Poland, you know? ;) ;) ;) Oh, the internet too. Ain't that amazing? ;) ;) Oh, and friends with people in high places, how about that? ;) ;)

Um, are you joking Seanny? The female anopheles mosquito is the principal carrier of malaria. Malaria has killed more people than AIDS, true. Malaria is naturally carried so the authorities can rest easy. Between 1/5 and 1/4 of anopheles mosquitoes are carriers.

You are obsessed with killing Americans. I don't think that they unleashed it on their populace so directly but their guinea pig experiments were unethical and have had devastating consequences.
szkotja2007 Threads: 37
Posts: 2,429
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
  ♂   Mar 7, 2010, 05:52pm  #

HIV1 was transferred from Simian IV in the Congo, long before NSSM 200 ( 1974 )HIV was found to be present in a sample dating from 1959.

I dont doubt for a minute that there are terrible viruses lurking in US labs ( and those in the EU too ) but as viruses go - HIV1 and 2 are frail retroviruses.

If you wanted to develop a population killing virus there are a whole lot out there already which would be a lot more effective than HIV.
Seanus Threads: 19
Posts: 28,093
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
  ♂   Mar 7, 2010, 05:57pm  #

There is evidence to support that conclusion, Szkotja. Some even go back to the 1880's. At the turn of the century seems conceivable.

They may be frail when compared to Ebola, for example, but it can mutate and be potent. What do you say to Boyd Grave's claim that a cure has been available since 1997? It is patented and on record.
SeanBM Threads: 45
Posts: 7,642
Joined: Mar 10, 2008
  ♂   Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 7, 2010, 05:57pm  #

Seanus:
I don't believe that Africa posed a threat at all.

Agreed, but you did accuse America of using it as a weapon to kill Africans.
So I think you are going back on what you clearly stated earlier:
Seanus:
the US has an antidote but is withholding it. They want Africans to die out of concerns for population control.

Seanus:
Africa seemed to be a sitting duck and ripe for the pickings. India and China at least had some chance to combat it.

What chance?
Putting a seemly unknown (and therefore undetectable) virus like HIV in any country, back then, would have tremendous consequentness and there would have been nothing that India or China could have done.


Seanus:
I don't believe in using AIDS as a political tool, what's so hard to understand about that?

But you do believe it is used and invented by America to kill Africans. I do not say you condone it, I say that it is a very ineffective weapon that has killed millions of Americans.

I would like to add here that I have come across the concept, in a fictional South African film, of AIDs being injected into the black population by white dentists who wanted to kill the blacks.
BUT that is a far cry from saying that America is responsible for 25 million HIV deaths, millions of their very own people using HIV as an extremely inefficient "weapon" in some insane attempt of controlling population.

Seanus:
AIDS wasn't discovered til 1984 by Gallo, the spread was visible before then.

Yes, it as discovered in 1984 (Orwell is turning in his grave)
But you are jumping to an incorrect understanding, that it was spreading before it was discovered is not an indication of anything except that it existed.

Seanus:
How? Because they say that whole blood inoculations caused AIDS. It's against the Hippocratic Oath to kill as prevention of harm is golden. If those inoculations were being administered in the 60's, how could it be that no tissue samples showed it? Selective sampling against probability?

Here again you are saying that Americans knowingly killed their own people.

You are playing join the dots were there aren't any, will give another reason, Aids spread, the people who did not have it before contracted it.
There was less of a threat in the 60s "free love" because AIDs was unknown and it spread like the virus it is.

Seanus:
China had a one-child policy in place and, even then, daughters were often drowned so they were left without kids. Thailand and Africa were/are fertile breeding grounds and that's what I wanted to say.

So what?
People al over the world from all walks of life have contracted the AIDs virus, less educated people are unaware of prevention.

Seanus:
This isn't a gun, this is circulating sth within a community that mutates and, according to some authorities, cannot be cured.

Again, this is not area specific or within any community, it is global.

Seanus:
Questions answered, I hope

I will put it this way, what is the motive for Americans:
a). Inventing the disease as a weapon?

b). releasing such an incredibly inefficient "Weapon" in to the populous killing thier own people as well as 25 million others?

c) Having a vaccine and still letting millions die, including their very own people?

Seanus:
just an experiment went wrong.

That is NOT what you said before. You said it was a American manufactured disease to kill of Africans and they have a cure but are hiding it from everyone.

Seanus:
I made the point that there would be swine flu or sth similar

You are a genius, will it ever rain again?
Of course there will be new or mutations of viruses that will kill millions of people again, it has happened all throughout our history, smallpox, Tuberculosis, Malaria, Measles, Hepatitus B, Tetanus etc... it is not a question of "will it happen again", it is a question of "when it will happen again".

Seanus:
It was a golden chance for the pharmaceutical companies to profit by creating new business.

I do agree, perhaps for different reasons but some multinational pharmaceutical companies have no moral fibre and just go for profit.
I know that they are a business and must make profit but there should be a better ethics code, perhaps looking at numbers dying rather than just their stock shares increasing.
And as we all know there is not much profit in cure but huge profit in making people dependant.

Seanus:
There are books in Poland, you know? ;) ;) ;) Oh, the internet too. Ain't that amazing? ;) ;) Oh, and friends with people in high places, how about that? ;) ;)

I have to meet you to prove you are in fact human and not an artificial intelligent life-form that gains all his knowledge from youtube and other obscure websites.

Seanus:
Um, are you joking Seanny? The female anopheles mosquito is the principal carrier of malaria.

So what?

Seanus:
You are obsessed with killing Americans. I don't think that they unleashed it on their populace so directly

yet another contradiction:
Seanus:
What I'm saying as an undeniable fact is that there were human guinea pigs used in NYC

NYC, that's in the U.S, right? not central Africa? perhaps the map of the world has changed since last I looked at it.


Seanus:
You are obsessed with killing Americans.

My obsession is that you are blaming America for killing 25 million people, probably the most people anyone has ever killed. And killing millions of their own people while they have a vaccine.
And that is why it is a nutty conspiracy.

szkotja2007:
I dont doubt for a minute that there are terrible viruses lurking in US labs ( and those in the EU too ) but as viruses go - HIV1 and 2 are frail retroviruses.

If you wanted to develop a population killing virus there are a whole lot out there already which would be a lot more effective than HIV.

Yes, absolutely.

Seanus:
What do you say to Boyd Grave's claim that a cure has been available since 1997? It is patented and on record.

I'd put it up there with A claim by Gambian President Yahya Jammeh that he can cure Aids
Seanus Threads: 19
Posts: 28,093
Joined: Dec 25, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Seanus  Mar 7, 2010, 06:26pm  #

The contention was that somehow black Africans posed a threat to our Western civilisation, complete paranoia! However, I don't see the connection you are trying to make with the killing of Americans. I should have said that Boyd Graves announced an antidote was available as manufactured by an Israeli under 2 names. He was giving a speech in 2007 and explained that it had been available for a decade.

By some chance I meant a small chance that they could isolate it or have some leading virologist or microbiologist snuff it out. However, such containment would have involved unparalleled quarantining and a lot of luck. Almost impossible. Therefore, its circulation was as good as guaranteed and transmitted via the methods I outlined above.

I'm just saying that leading biowarfare personnel in America had sinister agendas and were under orders. I wasn't physically privy to its introduction, of course.

Gallo's 1984 finding has been brought into disrepute anyway as his paper had lots of things conveniently scored out. There is a 3-min video on this on Youtube.

As for the tissue samples, I was questioning the logic of the case and not saying that Americans killed anybody. Look here, "they say" doesn't mean fact, does it?

I'm just saying that those places were fertile breeding grounds due to their sexual proclivities. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes but it must take root somewhere and that's the point. It was bound to be transmitted and spread given its behaviour.

I'd answer that by saying that it would go with what it could justify and sell to people. The science of AIDS is accepted by most people based on the way it has been presented to them. Eminent scientists can challenge it.

I said that there was a patent available, complete with number and details. That seems pretty clear to me, though odd that others haven't followed through on it.

Swine flu after bird flu was a logical continuation. Again, ruthless profiteering.

I prefer not to lap up all I read from government websites.

So that is your carrier and the anopheles mosquito is directly relevant. You laughed when I mentioned mosquitoes, look above. You felt there to be no connection or relevance.

They didn't unleash it so directly as it was an experiment. It came out simultaneously, Seanny, and I've made that point already above. Weird coincidence!

Seanny, one last time.

1) Guinea pigs
2) Spreading
3) Problem

The virus was let out of the bag through experiments. There's a direct correlation.

'What? what has a female mosquito got to do with anything???
Malaria has killed more people than AIDs.' (by SeanBM)

I didn't deny that malaria was a bigger killer. A female mosquito is irrelevant? Is that what you meant?
szkotja2007 Threads: 37
Posts: 2,429
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
  ♂   Mar 7, 2010, 06:37pm  #

Seanus:
What do you say to Boyd Grave's claim

Boyd Graves lacks credibility - a good education wasted.
I watched the first two minutes of the vid link and didnt waste anymore time watching.

As for a patent - a patent is simply that. It does not add credibility.
SeanBM Threads: 45
Posts: 7,642
Joined: Mar 10, 2008
  ♂   Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 7, 2010, 06:46pm  #

Seanus:
The contention was that somehow black Africans posed a threat to our Western civilisation,

Nobody has ever thought that.
This is the foundation for your whole argument and it is flawed to the core.

You studied law, you know how important motive is and the motive you are blaming on America is totally illogical.

Seanus:
I don't see the connection you are trying to make with the killing of Americans.

Millions of Americans have died from a virus that you claim was invented by the Americans and you claim they have a cure and continue not to distribute it among the American population, further killing more of their own countrymen further making your conspiracy theory nutty.

Seanus:
By some chance I meant a small chance that they could isolate it or have some leading virologist or microbiologist snuff it out. However, such containment would have involved unparalleled quarantining and a lot of luck. Almost impossible. Therefore, its circulation was as good as guaranteed and transmitted via the methods I outlined above.

Now you are posting how ridiculous such a conspiracy is and i agree it is ridiculous.
So if the two of us can clearly see the pit falls, the U.S. couldn't?
OR they did not do it, much more realistic explanation.

Seanus:
As for the tissue samples, I was questioning the logic of the case and not saying that Americans killed anybody. Look here, "they say" doesn't mean fact, does it?

If you don't quote what you are talking about it makes it more difficult to discuss this with you. YOU SAID:
Seanus:
the US has an antidote but is withholding it. They want Africans to die out of concerns for population control.

Nothing about "they said", you called it conspiracy FACT.

Seanus:
I'm just saying that those places were fertile breeding grounds due to their sexual proclivities. Nothing more, nothing less.

BS, you are saying they wanted to kill Africans for population control, yet india has FAR MORE PEOPLE, so logically where would be the best place to put such a "weapon"????

Seanus:
I'd answer that by saying

Answer what? you are answering out of context.

Seanus:
I said that there was a patent available, complete with number and details. That seems pretty clear to me, though odd that others haven't followed through on it.

Especially weird that of the millions of people with HIV all over the world noone is getting treated, it is almost like it doesn't exist.
Show us the patent.


Seanus:
I prefer not to lap up all I read from government websites.

Why bother when anyone with a webcam can make a youtube video that you will believe even if they are completely illogical.

Seanus:
So that is your carrier and the anopheles mosquito is directly relevant. You laughed when I mentioned mosquitoes, look above. You felt there to be no connection or relevance.

Because you were going off and talking abotu something else rather than answering my question, see above.
malaria would be a much better "Weapon" killing more people and less Americans and you start talking about females, so fricken what?

Seanus:
They didn't unleash it so directly as it was an experiment. It came out simultaneously, Seanny, and I've made that point already above. Weird coincidence!

You have misinterpreted the information, when they devised a way of detecting it, they found it all over, not as dramatic as your nutty conspiracy theory but there you have it :)
joepilsudski Threads: 41
Posts: 2,407
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: joepilsudski  Mar 7, 2010, 06:57pm  #

There is compelling circumstantial evidence that AIDS was a man made virus...I have done so much reading on this subject that I don't know where to start as far history and documentation, but here is one place to begin:

http://www.all-natural.com/horo-3.html

drlen

The writings and research of Dr. Leonard Horowitz on the matter

There are many indications that the manufactured AIDS virus was used to contaminate smallpox vaccines that were distributed through Africa in the 70s and the 80s...The US was working on creating these killer strains through the auspices of it's various Intelligence agencies (CIA) along with various government contractors...One of these projects was called MKNaomi.

I brought up the case of Wolf Szmuness, who vaccinated many homosexual men in a clinic in NYC with a Hepatitis B vaccine that was most likely contaminated...Testing these various biological warfare agents, who would make better subjects than homosexuals, Africans and other groups that posess little political clout?..The spread of AIDS in the gay community became a problem after Szmuness vaccinated these men, many of who often traveled or moved between NYC and San Francisco.

Some people still can't get it through their heads that governments and certain elements would create such a monster or monstrosities...Haven't we learned anything from history?


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