Polaron - Get Polish Citizenship / EU Passport now!Witamy, Guest  |  Members

The Unofficial Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives

"Polska" means "Poland" in Polish!
Home / News /answers: 197 - page 1 of 7

Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   Edited by: boletus  May 17, 2011, 01:52pm  #

George Friedman, of Stratfor, writes this in his geopolitical weekly :

With the Palestinians demonstrating and the International Monetary Fund in turmoil, it would seem odd to focus this week on something called the Visegrad Group. But this is not a frivolous choice. What the Visegrad Group decided to do last week will, I think, resonate for years, long after the alleged attempted rape by Dominique Strauss-Kahn is forgotten and long before the Israeli-Palestinian issue is resolved. The obscurity of the decision to most people outside the region should not be allowed to obscure its importance.

(…)
On May 12, the Visegrad Group announced the formation of a “battle group” under the command of Poland. The battle group would be in place by 2016 as an independent force and would not be part of NATO command. In addition, starting in 2013, the four countries would begin military exercises together under the auspices of the NATO Response Force.

As in his other reports, he puts everything into nice geopolitical and historical perspective. Worthy to read and perhaps discuss some points.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110516-visegrad-new-european-military -force


Sokrates Threads: 12
Posts: 4,349
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 02:01pm  #

Hello thats curious, i admit i'm taking Friedman with a massive grain of salt but this news is definitely news.

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 02:21pm  #

This excerpt somehow summarizes the reasons for the battle group:
In the past, the Visegrad countries would have been loath to undertake anything that felt like a unilateral defense policy. Therefore, the decision to do this is significant in and of itself. It represents a sense of how these countries evaluate the status of NATO, the U.S. attention span, European coherence and Russian power. It is not the battle group itself that is significant but the strategic decision of these powers to form a sub-alliance, if you will, and begin taking responsibility for their own national security. It is not what they expected or wanted to do, but it is significant that they felt compelled to begin moving in this direction.

Just as significant is the willingness of Poland to lead this military formation and to take the lead in the grouping as a whole.

I have read somewhere that it was not Poland that elected herself as a leader - she was actually asked to lead. But Poland did not want to carry all the burden herself and asked the rest for the real contributions, in terms of people and equipment. They all agreed to this.

Mr Grunwald Threads: 24
Posts: 1,909
Joined: Dec 16, 2008
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 02:31pm  #

boletus:
I have read somewhere that it was not Poland that elected herself as a leader - she was actually asked to lead. But Poland did not want to carry all the burden herself and asked the rest for the real contributions, in terms of people and equipment. They all agreed to this.

responsibility, costs, manpower. It's a reason why a country's PR get's higher when doing such stunts. Not everyone got what it takes.

Sokrates:
Hello thats curious, i admit i'm taking Friedman with a massive grain of salt but this news is definitely news.

amen

Frankly, Western-Europe/USA don't really care about Poland/central-eastern Europe. Only thing they want is a buffer zone for themselves, not the time has come to move in an more realistic path.

I can't wait for Crow's comment on this, would he suggest Serbia and other Slavic countries to join it or only co-operate or stand neutral towards it. (maybe hostile?)

Crow Threads: 223
Posts: 6,596
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Crow  May 17, 2011, 07:38pm  #

On May 12, the Visegrad Group announced the formation of a “battle group” under the command of Poland. The battle group would be in place by 2016 as an independent force and would not be part of NATO command.

interesting development. Poland is wise and i see,... what is even more important, Poland is alive

In addition, starting in 2013, the four countries would begin military exercises together under the auspices of the NATO Response Force.

i look forward to day when would Visegrad Group declare its full military neutrality on global military alliances

Mr Grunwald:
I can't wait for Crow's comment on this, would he suggest Serbia and other Slavic countries to join it or only co-operate or stand neutral towards it.

`Visegrad` could easily turn to be embryo of `Centroslavia`. Strategic experts predicted this scenario. This is good

Poland tend to restore Commonwealth to protect its own specific interests, with it, Poland is closer and closer with Serbia. Without Serbians Poland actually don`t have chance to restore its full potentials. For big game, Poland simple need Serbs.

as for Serbian stance on this development, i can only say what i know and that is- Racowie (Serbians) won`t fail Poland. We never failed. Never. Poland can count on us.

Stu Threads: 21
Posts: 740
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 07:57pm  #

Crow:
as for Serbian stance on this development


???????????????????

Called for? Asked for? Part of the subject?

sobieski Threads: 126
Posts: 2,550
Joined: Jun 1, 2008
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 08:10pm  #

Crow:
as for Serbian stance on this development

Since when are you part of Europe????

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   Edited by: boletus  May 17, 2011, 08:37pm  #

From Ukrainian press, 12.05.2011.

Ukraine invited to participate in battle tactical group of Visegrad Group
http://www.interfax.com.ua/eng/main/68394/
The countries of the Visegrad Group (Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech Republic) have agreed on the creation of a battle tactical group and invited Ukraine to participate in it.

"Today we have agreed on the creation of this group in the first half of 2016," Slovak Defense Minister Lubomir Galko has said at a joint press conference with Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhailo Yezhel in Levoca (Slovakia) on Thursday, following a meeting of defense ministers as part of the Visegrad Group + Ukraine.

According to him, the sides discussed the possibility of Ukraine's involvement in this group. At the meeting, the ministers agreed that all costs would be shared among them, while the other details will be considered at meetings in line with working procedure.

According to the Slovak defense minister, his Polish counterpart agreed that Poland would be the main country in the new group.

Yezhel, in turn, noted that Ukraine has experience of participating in battle tactical groups, as its Il-76 aircraft, its radiation, chemical and biological protection units, and its combat engineer units are participating in tactical groups.

I am not sure how close the V4-Ukraine ties are to be.
1. Ukraine still sits on a fence with respect to anything EU related
2. Russians will not like it. Putin has already made a trip to Slovakia with a hidden agenda to weaken the pact

On the other hand Ukrainians have cooperated militarily for years with Poles and Lithuanians, serving in PolUkrBat (or PolLitUkrBat) batalion in Balkans. AFAIK, the three countries are going to renew their commitment to a new form of P-L-U-Bat, or whatever they are going to call themselves.

Palivec Threads: -
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
  ♂   Edited by: Palivec  May 17, 2011, 08:39pm  #

Stu:
Called for? Asked for? Part of the subject?


sobieski:
Since when are you part of Europe????


You all don't understand. The Visegrad Group is the first step towards a new Panslavia, led by the center of the West, Poland, and supported by the other saviour of Europe, Serbia.
Or something like that... :D

Torq Threads: 53
Posts: 3,339
Joined: Apr 10, 2009
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 08:59pm  #

Sokrates:
this news is definitely news.


http://fakty.interia.pl/swiat/news/grupa-bojowa-wyszehradu-przewartosc iowanie-strategii,1640442,4

The article suggests that it was a strategical decision caused by the unpredictability of future
Russia's actions, weakness of Europe and divisions inside NATO. It also says that Romania and
Bulgaria will most likely join the alliance.

All hail the Visegrad Empire led by Glorious Rzeczpospolita!

YES!

sascha Threads: 6
Posts: 1,703
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 09:14pm  #

Torq:
The article suggests that it was a strategical decision caused by the unpredictability of future
Russia's actions, weakness of Europe and divisions inside NATO. It also says that Romania and
Bulgaria will most likely join the alliance.


It is for sure an interesting development, considering the fact that us and russia are still not clear on that anti rocket sh1t system and that the intentons of nato to spread some more memberships.

Russias actions are more or less clear. Keep the backyard safe and clean and let's see what nato has to offer or to do. ;)

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 09:30pm  #

Torq:
All hail the Visegrad Empire led by Glorious Rzeczpospolita!

:-)
But seriously, you are right on target. Poland appears too big compared with the other three countries, and some politicians in those countries do not like it. So Poland should really keep a low profile in order for this new initiative to succeed.

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
Posts: 11,533
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 17, 2011, 09:34pm  #

boletus:
I am not sure how close the V4-Ukraine ties are to be.
1. Ukraine still sits on a fence with respect to anything EU related


Well...what better way to get Ukraine down from the fence on your side then to invite them and bind them to you.
Isolating them, ignoring them only helps your adversary.

Visegrad group + Ukraine would actually be a very smart move!

Natasa Threads: 6
Posts: 971
Joined: Jun 6, 2010
  ♀   May 17, 2011, 09:38pm  #

Bratwurst Boy:
Visegrad group + Ukraine would be actually a very smart move!


Bratwurst are you a victim of some Slavicization performed by somebody else (not me! horror!) or you also suffer from something like those disturbing Germanization phases Crow displays from time to time?

Torq Threads: 53
Posts: 3,339
Joined: Apr 10, 2009
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 09:58pm  #

boletus:
Poland appears too big compared with the other three countries


And that is exactly what moved our valiant vassals: Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary
to ask for our protection. When worthy Romanians and brave Bulgarians kiss our pinky ring
and join the alliance too, we will be ready to extend Pax Polonica farther East.

Si Deus cum nobis qis sic contra nos?

http://arsenal.art.pl/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/wojciech_duda_obiekt1 .jpg]

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 10:04pm  #

Torq:
Si Deus cum nobis qis sic contra nos?

George W Bush?

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
Posts: 11,533
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 10:13pm  #

Torq:
And that is exactly what moved our valiant vassals: Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary
to ask for our protection. When worthy Romanians and brave Bulgarians kiss our pinky ring
and join the alliance too, we will be ready to extend Pax Polonica farther East.


Hey...you all together could bring freedom and democracy to Russia...at last! :)

Crow Threads: 223
Posts: 6,596
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 11:14pm  #

Si Deus cum nobis qis sic contra nos?

yes. destine of Jesus is destine of Slavs. Both are immortal

JonnyM Threads: 15
Posts: 3,552
Joined: Mar 9, 2011
  ♂   May 17, 2011, 11:17pm  #

Crow:
destine of Jesus is destine of Slavs

Sit down and have a nice cup of tea.

Crow Threads: 223
Posts: 6,596
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Crow  May 17, 2011, 11:25pm  #

Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland

i see many changes coming in Europe. Take Germans for example

Germans should all return to Mother Slavija. i feel great shame (because of well known German mistakes) that many connects Germans with Serbs referring on fact about their mostly Serbian origin. Well, what can we do. i personally feel sorry to them, as for my deluded brothers. German nation is false nation and time of truth is closer and closer.

JonnyM:
Sit down and have a nice cup of tea.

Yes Pane kurac

Mr Grunwald Threads: 24
Posts: 1,909
Joined: Dec 16, 2008
  ♂   Edited by: Mr Grunwald  May 18, 2011, 12:27am  #

Torq:
And that is exactly what moved our valiant vassals: Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary
to ask for our protection. When worthy Romanians and brave Bulgarians kiss our pinky ring
and join the alliance too, we will be ready to extend Pax Polonica farther East.

Let's not overheat here shall we?

I can hint that with Germany (perhaps) joining in, it would make Germany having a lot more influence then being in the EU sharing power with France, U.K. Having her "own" alliance led by Poland which she could back up. That would only provide benefits, IF Germany will act like that. It may even have a chance of redeeming herself while people whisper about the times they heard stories of how unpleasent or malace like it was in Western Europe.

The Russian federation would certainly back this (since it could break up NATO, or most of it) and having an helpfull Russian federation and an oportunistic Germany WILL lead to something positive. Another block in Europe, giving her a choice

The only ones who should moan about this and should try fighting against an creation of this is mainly Western Europe and U.S.A. If more and more countries from the former eastern block (maybe some former NATO countries aswell) join Visegrad then it shows how much faith they have in protection from western European allies or U.S.A. Certainly some american tax payers will wake up happy hearing about it. While American department of foreign affairs would locate their attention to either China or an other option. (If there are any).

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
Posts: 11,533
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
  ♂   Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 18, 2011, 01:23am  #

Mr Grunwald:
I can hint that with Germany (perhaps) joining in, it would make Germany having a lot more influence then being in the EU sharing power with France, U.K. Having her "own" alliance led by Poland which she could back up


Not these powergames again....that exactly was the reason for centuries of tensions and bloodshed in Europe.

Germany has enough influence and doesn't want more...especially not militarily. There are no games to be played anylonger.

Bratwurst Boy:
The only ones who should moan about this and should try fighting against an creation of this is mainly Western Europe and U.S.A.


Why?

What makes you think this Visegrad group is hostile to the EU? It's made up of EU-members (+Ukraine maybe)...your thinking is so 19th century.

Do you want that back?

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   May 18, 2011, 01:40am  #

Guys, this is just a proposal. And a battle group is not a big deal - one or two battalions of infantry, tanks, engineering. What counts is the idea of cooperation, information exchange, mutual training. A good beginning.

poland_     Edited by: Moderator  May 18, 2011, 10:26am  #

With the Palestinians demonstrating and the International Monetary Fund in turmoil, it would seem odd to focus this week on something called the Visegrad Group. But this is not a frivolous choice. What the Visegrad Group decided to do last week will, I think, resonate for years, long after the alleged attempted rape by Dominique Strauss-Kahn is forgotten and long before the Israeli-Palestinian issue is resolved. The obscurity of the decision to most people outside the region should not be allowed to obscure its importance.

http://www.billoreilly.com/b/Stratfor.com:-Visegrad:-A-New-European-Mi litary-Force/-906779418643105193.html

GrzegorzK     May 18, 2011, 12:39pm  #

This is great news. Its about time we took a proactive stance. I think all those countries don't want to get screwed by france and rest of europe and America again like in world war 2. Especially with instability in Belarus. Lukashenko is a nut who knows what can happen there. Russia is trying to restore the soviet empire. This is a good first step. I'd love to see belarus given back to Poland, and restore the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth

Bratwurst Boy Threads: 8
Posts: 11,533
Joined: Apr 2, 2007
  ♂   May 18, 2011, 12:52pm  #

GrzegorzK:
I think all those countries don't want to get screwed by france and rest of europe and America again like in world war 2


Well...in that case they better leave EU and NATO first....

boletus Threads: 50
Posts: 1,701
Joined: Apr 13, 2011
  ♂   May 18, 2011, 01:20pm  #

On Tuesday, May 17, Defence Minister Gerard Longuet of France paid an official visit to Poland at the invitation of Defence Minister Bogdan Klich.
(…)
"We talked about the need to strengthen the battle groups, (...) the need to strengthen the EU's military dimension, (...) The EU institutions, such as the European Defence Agency. Finally, we talked about the cooperation between NATO and the EU" - said Klich.
(…)

http://polska-zbrojna.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id= 12599:minister-obrony-francji-z-wizyt-w-polsce&catid=55:z-kraju&Itemid =105

Crow Threads: 223
Posts: 6,596
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
  ♂   May 18, 2011, 04:24pm  #

Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland

this scenario was desired and was even predicted by Serbian intelligentsia. Role of Poland in consolidation of Serbia`s relations with Vatican would be decisive, with it, Polish contribution to the stabilization of Serbian ethnic being would be enormous. It is expected that increased Polish influence, minimize negative impact of German politics on Vatican. Strong Catholic Slavic Poland is in the best interest of Slavic world, on the line of best Vatican`s interests and what is most important, in the interest of the peace on the European continent.

Go Poland!

Piast Poland Threads: 3
Posts: 260
Joined: Aug 28, 2010
  ♂   May 18, 2011, 04:38pm  #

This is exactly what Poland needs to do. Strengthen its European ties. Even more importantly with countries in its own geographical region who would actually care about what happens to it. I really hope this succeeds and expands further south to Serbia and other Slavic nations.

Stu Threads: 21
Posts: 740
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
  ♂   Edited by: Stu  May 18, 2011, 04:38pm  #

Crow:
Serbian intelligentsia


Contradictio in terminis ... .

And why is he still allowed to talk about Serbia when the topic has NOTHING to do with this joke of a country whatsoever??!!

Crow:
negative impact of German politics on Vatican.


Yet there is a German Pope ... :D:D:D



Home / News / Unanswered [this forum]

Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland

  To post as guest, enter a temporary and unique username (without password) or login and post as a member.