AWESOME action of private detective K.Rutkowski in Norway!

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Edited by: JonnyM Jul 1, 11, 19:38 #91

Wroclaw:

if any of u read the links i posted you'd know why she was taken into care

I read the article in first link before you posted it - it certainly tells us a bit more (and a bit more neutrally) than the Polish media. Nevertheless, the social services in Norway can't reveal the gory details, whereas the media (as well as idiots on fora) here in Poland are free to speculate and come up with whatever trash they like.

gumishu:

I am with you on that matter

And evidently with the abuser/s too.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: gumishu Jul 1, 11, 19:42 #92
JonnyM: can't reveal the gory details gory ehehheh oh OMG - your imagination has grown big man edit: you have seen the photo of the child - maybe her mother does not look very nice but how do you link the smiling child in good shape with 'gore' ???

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM Jul 1, 11, 19:48 #93
gumishu: gory ehehheh oh OMG - your imagination has grown big man gumishu: gore An odd comment. Learn English properly including some idioms before trolling. gumishu: the smiling child "Say cheese".

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 11, 19:52 #94
enlighten me what 'gory details' means in idiomatic English then - I am not a native speaker so I am prone to making mistakes and misunderstanding things

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Jul 1, 11, 19:54 #95

alexandrus
that is not similar at all. Khalid kidnapped the 2 children from their Norwegian mother and hold them in Morrroco against their wishes, he beat them up and miss traded them extremely for 2 1/2 year an he tried to shoot their mother with a gun, and also threatened to kill a morrocoan lawyer.

A mother of one of the childrens morrocoan friends and morrocoan neighbor living near Khalid (the father) house succeeded 2 times to smuggle a cellphone to the children because they was afraid for the childrens lifes. the first time the children escaped and call their mother and walked alone to the Norwegian embassy. The Embasy bring the children to the local police who give them back to their father. After that the father refused them to go to school and held them trapped on a deserted farm and beat them and mistraded them badly.

One moore time the children ascape from their father and had borrowed a cell phone from a stranger morrocoan man they met under their escape. They called an Morroccan lawyer. The lawyer called the Norwegian embassy who picked up the children in the street. The children was in very poor condition after the mistrade and the escape from their father. The children was staying in the embassy for a couple of days until their mother come to morroco in a sailboat and bring them to Norway. Ther was no soldiers but some sailors who helped them to escape from morroco.

maybe you should read about the outcome of the trial rather than what you have read from the morrocoan minister.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jul 1, 11, 20:01 #96
gumishu: enlighten me what 'gory details' means in idiomatic English then in fine detail

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 11, 20:09 #97
Wroclaw: gumishu: enlighten me what 'gory details' means in idiomatic English then in fine detail thanx for clearing this to me Wroclaw

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Edited by: ender Jul 1, 11, 20:11 #98

Wroclaw:

if any of u read the links i posted you'd know why she was taken into care

Norwegian Child Welfare services (Barneverntjenesten allege the girl, a Polish citizen called Nikola, was the victim of neglect.

I think you've got a problem that may help:
When to worry about a child.

NEGLECT?!
Leaving behind 5 years of your work, hiring most expensive Polish Detective (not my favorite person). You are interesting person. REALLY. Logic is not your greatest asset.
And the same time so caring Norwegian Child Welfare does not give a hoot to inform Polish Child Welfare?
And I'm not talking about MEDIA like some twisted liar suggest.

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Edited by: JonnyM Jul 1, 11, 20:17 #99

ender:

NEGLECT?!

Interesting that you assume you know the whole story, when the only people who do are legally unable to place the details within the public domain. Not very clever, are you?

ender:

And the same time so caring Norwegian Child Welfare does not give a hoot to inform Polish Child Welfare?

The child was a resident of Norway - there was no reason to inform a foreign country who had no connection with or role in the case, and they were almost certainly unable to due to privacy laws. Now the child has been kidnapped to Poland it is a different story, though the Polish child protection services are similarly bound by confidentiality laws.

Marynka11Threads: 8 Posts: 1,447 Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀	Jul 1, 11, 20:27 #100
I just hope that the parents learned their lesson they will take better care of their daughter. Perhaps it was a wake up call and they will stop doing whatever they were doing wrong that caused this whole mess.

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Edited by: ender Jul 1, 11, 20:39 #101

JonnyM:

The child was a resident of Norway - there was no reason to inform a foreign country who had no connection with or role in the case, and they were almost certainly unable to due to privacy laws.

The child is citizen of Poland. Their duty is to protect child. Privacy my bum. It's suspicious you are the one screaming about what exactly?

JonnyM:

Interesting that you assume you know the whole story, when the only people who do are legally unable to place the details within the public domain.

How do you know that? Can you anyhow support your claims. You just using words like privacy (source please) to excuse abuse of law one of agency Norwegian government agency.

Here is one of your followers:

Marynka11:

I just hope that the parents learned their lesson they will take better care of their daughter. Perhaps it was a wake up call and they will stop doing whatever they were doing wrong that caused this whole mess.

She assumed they are guilty without ANY proof

Marynka11Threads: 8 Posts: 1,447 Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀	Edited by: Marynka11 Jul 1, 11, 20:48 #102
ender: She assumed they are guilty without ANY proof The proof is that the girl was taken away. It means there was some room for improvement for the parents.

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Edited by: JonnyM Jul 1, 11, 20:51 #103

ender:

The child is citizen of Poland. Their duty is to protect child. Privacy my bum

The country of origin had no role in this until one of their citizens kidnapped the child from Norway for money, and it is not Poland's duty (or right) to get involved with the abuse of a child in a foreign jurisdiction, whatever the nattionality of the parents. Idiot.

ender:

abuse of law one of agency Norwegian government agency

What abuse of law? They operate under a strict legal framework and have a statutory duty to ensure the welfare of children in their territory. They also operate under strict privacy laws and professional confidentiality. So unfortunatel the stuff you read in the tabloids comes from the childs abuseive parents and that criminal Rutkowski.

Marynka11:

The proof is that the girl was taken away. It means there was some room for improvement for the parents.

Yes and I'd go a lot further. It means the child was in danger. Removal to a place of safety is never done lightly.

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Edited by: ender Jul 1, 11, 20:56 #104

JonnyM:

They operate under a strict legal framework and have a duty to ensure the welfare of children in their territory.

Again how do you know that? Any source? If they are so strict and full of 'duty' why that:
Record Increase in Child Abuse Investigations
Number of judicial examination of children who may have experienced violence and sexual assault increased by over 100 percent in Oslo this year. (20.06.2011 - Oslo)
It is logical to assume there is something wrong with Norwegian Child Welfare or Norwegian society.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: gumishu Jul 1, 11, 20:57 #105
JonnyM: childs abuseive parents on what do you base your assumption the parents of the girl are abusive - on the fact that some government agency took their child without notice? (she was taken from school) - the state acted like a kidnapper here

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Jul 1, 11, 21:03 #106

ender:

It is logical to assume there is something wrong with Norwegian Child Welfare

Or something right.

gumishu:

on what do you base your assumption the parents of the girl are abusive - on the fact that some government agency took their child without notice?

Do you often criticisse child protection services when they feel a case is so serious it warrants removing a child to a place of safety? Or are you just pointlessly sniping due to the child's nationality.

Two idiots now, who thing citizenship is more important than a child's welfare. But hey, the Polish tabloids have printed some photos and given one side to the story, so it must be all right :-)

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Jul 1, 11, 21:13 #107

JonnyM:

gumishu:
on what do you base your assumption the parents of the girl are abusive - on the fact that some government agency took their child without notice?

Do you often criticisse child protection services when they feel a case is so serious it warrants removing a child to a place of safety? Or are you just pointlessly sniping due to the child's nationality.

that parents show up with their child in front of the cameras suggests that the child is in no danger from her parents - if it somehow eludes you that government officials can be dangerous to the members of the populace then you should study the matter more closely

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Jul 1, 11, 21:19 #108

JonnyM:

I wouldn't rely on the first knee-jerk comments of the Polish media

so what your saying is that nothing the polish media says is true, but yet you would listen to
the norwegian media instead?

JonnyM:

It suggests the level of abuse was so high that they wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of getting their child back.

it suggests that as parents they would do anything to get their daughter back including losing
all their material things, go back to poland and live instead of live in a place where they dont
have a total handle on their policys. it also suggests that in every system there is bad people
who will bend the rules to keep familys apart.

if you dont believe this happens then your fooling yourself cause theres corruption in every system
its always good vs bad , but I still say there really isnt enough in front of us to even accuse the
parents of anything.. fighting is normal, everyone fights.

I am fighting with you right now.. * DUKES UP* lol I will take ya all on.. muwhahhahahahahaha.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jul 1, 11, 21:27 #109
i simply want to hear both sides of the story. i know we ain't gonna get it though. i do wonder why this girl didn't just walk out of the front door.

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Jul 1, 11, 21:40 #110

JonnyM:

Or something right.

with Norwegian society? You missed that one.

JonnyM:

Two idiots now, who thing citizenship is more important than a child's welfare.

One idiot who thinks residency is more important then citizenship and child's welfare is good till border of country because of privacy.

Wroclaw:

i do wonder why this girl didn't just walk out of the front door

The best answer is simple one: SHE WAS TREATED LIKE PRISONER.

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Jul 1, 11, 21:44 #111

Wroclaw:

i simply want to hear both sides of the story

Me to.

Wroclaw:

i do wonder why this girl didn't just walk out of the front door.

I wonder why the Norwegian foster parents arent speaking up.

Or that there is only focus on what this Rutkowski did and not what the real issue was
about why the child was taken to begin with. he seems pretty confident that he did
nothing wrong.

Ps I read your links :)

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jul 1, 11, 21:49 #112
Patrycja19: I wonder why the Norwegian foster parents arent speaking up. because they would get fired by the state institutions

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jul 1, 11, 22:48 #113
gumishu: because they would get fired by the state institutions True.. Every system has flaws.. I just read another case where the social workers were playing favorites with foster parents.. not a good idea, people need to be screened before child Placement.

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Jul 1, 11, 23:44 #114

I am shocked to see all these polish comments about norwegians wanting to steal polish kids. Its so crazy you cant believe it. Yes, its possible that the child protective services made a mistake. And its possible that the polish parents have been unfairly treated. But for gods sake! There are international laws for this and the the right way of action for the parents was to use the laws. Either international laws or norwegian laws. There are needs to be very heavy reasons for taking away a kid from parents in Norway. Only violence or drug/alcholholic problems makes such an action possible.

Its not as if we norwegians want some "blonde" polish kids. Fvck that.
Norwegian society is very transparent and the respect for laws are very high.

My message from Norway to polish people is this. We dont like peope who brake the laws. The justice system here is pretty fair and transparent and the media have free speech. Norway follows international laws and submits to laws by EU. Poland could have used their influence in EU easily and pressured Norway if they were sure the polish kids had ben treated unjust.
Norway is not the wild west, and we obid by international agreements.
It might by a clash of cultures, were the distrust of the state is greater in Polan. and maybe abusive parenting is allowed in Poland. But in Norway the state is trusted and if the state do anything unethical the free media will pressure the polliticians easily. And the RIGHTS of the kids are very highly regarded. The authorities are OBLIGED to take the best interest of the kid into account. If the polish parents argued to the norwegian authorities that the kid was best suited to return to them, it would have happend. Because its always regarded a traumatic experience for a kid to leave their parents. Only in cases were its considered MORE TRAUMATIC and dangerous to stay will the norwegian authorities take action. In this case, parents have to prove they can take care of the kid. If the mother had a drug problem, she could show the authorities that she had taken care of the problem, and the kid will then ALWAYS be returned to the parent.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Jul 1, 11, 23:55 #115
I also believe the courts in Norway must have had a good reason to put this child in care.... I just hope the child welfare people in Poland know whats going on...

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Jul 2, 11, 00:02 #116

Patrycja19:

I wonder why the Norwegian foster parents arent speaking up.

As a norwegian i can tell you why. The foster parents was probably just a temporary solution and the girl hadnt been yet settled with a foster family. It was likely a still a work in progress were the authorities, who are OBLIGED by law to take the kids best interest in consideration, was thinking about what the best long term solution for the kid was. Its always considered best for a kid to stay with her biological family, so it must habe been very serious suspicion against the parents.

Lets say the mother had a drug addiction. In that case, the mother would have to become clean from drugs. If she did, the kid will always be returned to her. Alternatively, the mother could have gotten treatment for drug abuse and thebiological father could take care of the kid.
The laws in Norway are always intended to protect the children. And expert psychologists and psychiatrists will always have the final say for the action of child custom. Teh aulity controll of the agency is high, and the possibility of using the legal system also very good.

But.. if you choose to stay in Norway, you have to follow the laws. Abuse of kids are forbidden. IF you have a drug addiction or are very openly violent towards kids, PLEASE dont move to Norway. you might get away with that in Poland, but in Norway the authories wont allow it.

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Jul 2, 11, 00:12 #117

Bestintest:

Its so crazy you cant believe it.

It happened in the past, plus German tendency to fully Germ-anize kids from mixed Polish-German marriages by Jugedamt.

Bestintest:

There are international laws for this and the the right way of action for the parents was to use the laws.

Simple there isn't.

Bestintest:

Only violence or drug/alcholholic problems makes such an action possible.

How do you know you are from London.

Bestintest:

Norway is not the wild west, and we obid by international agreements.

we(Norwegians?) If so can I have source of your information?

Bestintest:

It might by a clash of cultures, were the distrust of the state is greater in Polan.

Bestintest:

The justice system here is pretty fair and transparent and the media have free speech.

Does it work same way as PM Blair information about mass destruction weapon in Iraq? Trust but control.

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Jul 2, 11, 00:26 #118

Bestintest:

Its not as if we norwegians want some "blonde" polish kids. Fvck that.

Well I was interested up until you put this into your post, now I could give a rats ass.

kids are kids, no matter what the nationality, you can go take a long walk off a short pier
and swim to the first person who gives a crap.

I would care for any child no matter what the childs ethnic background, and people on here
are discussing it, theres not enough proof either way but you disgust me.

so in short stfu

Bestintest:

But.. if you choose to stay in Norway, you have to follow the laws. Abuse of kids are forbidden. IF you have a drug addiction or are very openly violent towards kids, PLEASE dont move to Norway. you might get away with that in Poland, but in Norway the authories wont allow it.

its not tolerated anywhere.. so I dont know why your acting like the authority system when
you bluntly say its not as if we norwegians want some *BLOND* polish kids fvck that!!

Get off the podium and go sit down BUH BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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Jul 2, 11, 00:51 #119

Patrycja19:

Well I was interested up until you put this into your post, now I could give a rats ass.

My point was that there are no hunger for adopting/stealing blonde kids in Norway. It will never be tolerated to steal some strangers kids for some bizarre nationalistic interest. And btw, they already was staying in Norway and the kid was going to a norwegian school, so why would norwegians abduct it?

Most adopted kids in Norway comes from Korea.

I have nothing against polish kids, but i dont see a reason for stealing them. For what reason would you want to steal kid?

ender:

Simple there isn't.

There are plenty of international laws that ensure human rights, also for kids.

ender:

It happened in the past, plus German tendency to fully Germ-anize kids from mixed Polish-German marriages by Jugedamt.

I have no idea about polish-german history. For all i know that might have been some cultural/historic/social class issues i have no clue about. But i can assure you that polish kids are generally not adopted in Norway. I have never met a polish adopted kid. And i dont see the bisarre race reasons for it either. Its really weird to hear such strange claim.

Her in Norway, our contact the polish people are restricted. Mostly guest workers that we hear about and meet. Sometimes we hear about a polish guy who opens up a porn shop or something, but thats about it. We also have some politicians here that came from Poland during the cold war and are wel intigrated into society.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jul 2, 11, 01:04 #120
Bestintest: My point was that there are no hunger for adopting/stealing blonde kids in Norway. Then you should probably have worded it a little better. Bestintest: Its really weird to hear such strange claim. Seriously, I highly doubt that people will openly admit they are kidnapping a blond kid, or any kid for that matter.

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