What is better for Poland being in the EU or being in a slavic union ?

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 02:20 #1
What do you think will be benefit Poland more in the future being in The Current European Union or joining a slavic union with countries like Ukraine,Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia etc

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 02:44 #2
Considering the number of Poles working in Schengen countries and sending money home, the percentage of FDI from EU countries, and the tariff free export partners of Poland, I would say that the EU is overwhelmingly the winner here.

beelzebubThreads: - Posts: 515 Joined: Feb 16, 10 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 02:44 #3
More slavic power fantasies?

MatowyThreads: 1 Posts: 519 Joined: Jul 4, 09 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 04:43 #4
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the EU is more beneficial. Call it a hunch.

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 04:45 #5
beelzebub: More slavic power fantasies? yes of course

♂

Mar 6, 10, 12:08 #6

Czarnkow1940:

Ukraine

Unfortunately Ukraine is too poor to have a good union with, Poland would be supporting them.

Czarnkow1940:

Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia

The Baltic people you have somehow put in here would not fit into your "Slavic Union".

convex:

Considering the number of Poles working in Schengen countries and sending money home, the percentage of FDI from EU countries, and the tariff free export partners of Poland, I would say that the EU is overwhelmingly the winner here.

Also the amount of money being poured into Poland now from the E.U. it's a no brainer.

RubasznyRumcajsThreads: 9 Posts: 281 Joined: Mar 29, 08 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 13:07 #7
Czarnkow1940: What do you think will be benefit Poland more in the future being in The Current European Union or joining a slavic union with countries like Ukraine,Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia etc 1. lithuania, latvia, estonia arent slavic. 2. no, thank you- we have lived for almost 50 years in 'friendly union' with one of the biggest slavic countries- and noone wants to repeat it.

rtzThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Jan 3, 10 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 13:09 #8
Nations should unite, not sub-divide ...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 13:12 #9
So then you want an Us Vs Them scenario, rtz? We shouldn't encourage the singling out of differences too much. If there were more common interests amongst Slavic peoples, then yes, it may be viable. Baltic people are really quite different.

rtzThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Jan 3, 10 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 13:19 #10
Seanus: Seanus You're getting me wrong (or I'm unable to say anything clear today) EU consists of more nations and Slavic countries are less - i.e. being part of EU is better because more counttries/nations are stronger than few slavic nations ... That's what I ment.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 13:23 #11
Aha, thanks for the clarification, rtz :) :) Why enter into a more divergent matrix when you can enter into a smaller domain with more easily-defined interests? The greater the number of players in the mix, the more likely that competing interests can divide the collective whole. Still, we have to try, I guess.

♂

Edited by: rtz Mar 6, 10, 13:37 #12

First: I think that Poland can be member of more than one union ... why choosing between?

Second: the more the players are - the better the exchange of experience and culture between. 4 eyes see better than 2 ... etc.

The competition between (if I get you right) should be the force to gather and use inside-out not internally ...

The bigger variety - the better chance of surviving and flexibility - that's the Nature law.

I'm not saying we should make ourselves equal - but being in a larger community gives you greater availability to choose from.

♂

Mar 6, 10, 13:44 #13

Good first point, rtz. However, what happens when 2 separate agendas come into conflict? Just look at subsidiarity in the EU, politics makes for strange bedfellows and reaching agreement isn't always clearcut.

True, this works well on an exchange level and raises awareness. However, there are weighting imbalances and proportionality doesn't always play the part that it should when it comes to the power of a state.

Also, would a Slavic union make the kind of guarantees that the EU does? It's odd that Poles need a visa for Russia but not for most European countries.

wlodek	Mar 6, 10, 13:59 #14
Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians are not Slavic. Go deeper into wikipedia. regards

♂

Edited by: Crow Mar 6, 10, 14:07 #15

wlodek:

Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians are not Slavic.

but same as Hungary (and some other countries) belong to historically Slavic cultural and linguistic area. i think, if trends of globalization continue to include forcible racial and cultural mixing, Slavic union could become really attractive from Baltic to Balkan. It would go on the principle ``if i have to globalize (economic and security reasons; large numbers) let me globalize inside of my own civilization``.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 14:12 #16
Why not say Baltic-Slavic, Crow? It would instantly solve your problems.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂	Edited by: Crow Mar 6, 10, 14:15 #17
Seanus: Why not say Baltic-Slavic, Crow? It would instantly solve your problems. Slavic culture is ancestral and fundamental to both- Slavs and Balts. If the name of Union is problem then i suggest- `Sarmatian Union` or `Polish union`

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 14:15 #18
Crow: linguistic area Hungarian, Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian are not Slavic languages. I have been to all of these countries and the languages are very very different from what you might expect. Crow: Slavic union could become really attractive from Baltic The Baltic states do not want to be ruled by someone else's "Slavic Union" again.

bullfrogThreads: 4 Posts: 379 Joined: Apr 23, 09 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 14:18 #19
Seanus: Also, would a Slavic union make the kind of guarantees that the EU does? It's odd that Poles need a visa for Russia but not for most European countries A slavic union is non starter from the outset. Tha slavic character is unpredictable, hot tempered, people would start arguing and fighting between them even before the ink of the treaty is dry!!

♂

Edited by: Seanus Mar 6, 10, 14:19 #20

I saw little of Slavic culture, esp in Latvia and Estonia. In Lithuania, you can see a few things. It was the home of Mickiewicz and Słowacki. However, it is different linguistically, Crow. Have you been there? I can understand parts of Russian and Czech through Polish but Baltic languages are quite different.

Here's some 'douma' for you, Crow :) :)

Bullfrog, you are absolutely right. They look for differences and I can see that clearly. It's analogous to the way Japan sees Korea and China. I witnessed that first-hand, no Asian brotherhood as they sat well apart.

♂

Edited by: Crow Mar 6, 10, 14:23 #21

SeanBM:

Hungarian, Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian are not Slavic languages.

Slavic is fundamental in those languages

SeanBM:

I have been to all of these countries and the languages are very very different from what you might expect.

i`m in contact with Hungarian language almost every day.

just one example- ``don`t speak`` in Hungarian is ``nem besilem`` what is same as ``nemoj besediti`` in archaic Serbian or old Slavic

SeanBM:

The Baltic states do not want to be ruled by someone else's "Slavic Union" again.

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was successful experiment

Seanus:

Here's some 'douma' for you, Crow :) :)

after all, Balts are free to be whatever they want. Whole giant Eurabian soup awaits them. Only alternative is Slavija. Let Balts choose to whom to merge. i think they have batter chances in Slavija to preserve their unique Baltic characteristics

♂

Edited by: Seanus Mar 6, 10, 14:29 #22

How is Slavic fundamental there, Crow? Estonian is closer to Finnish which most definitely isn't Slavic. I spoke some Polish to a barmaid in Tallinn and she didn't have the slightest clue what I said to her.

Crow, there are little links which really surprise you and I've recently done a class on it. However, making the inferential leap of being one and the same is a step too far. Look, check out some labels of products in Czech, Slovakian and Polish. You will see some common ground for sure. Hungarian?? Hardly! Does 'osszevetok' look Slavic to you?

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was fraught with pitfalls and was on tenterhooks. There has never been an easy and flowing alliance in that vein.

Crow, Lithuanians are not that keen on Poles for the most part. Poles labour history, often at their peril.

♂

Edited by: SeanBM Mar 6, 10, 14:32 #23

Crow:

Slavic is fundamental in those languages

Not at all. They are not Slavic languages, Hungarian is not part of the Slavic family at all.

Lithuanian and Latvian are so different from any other Slavic language at this stage that you would not be able to understand anything. And just forget about Estonian.

Crow:

just one example-

And in Polish people say "internet" so i guess Polish must be a Germanic language huh?
Hungarian is completely different from any Slavic language, in fact it is an anomaly as regards linguistics in Europe.

Hungarian (magyar nyelv About this sound listen (help·info)) is a Uralic language, more specifically a Finno-Ugric language related to Finnish, Estonian and a number of other minority languages spoken in the Baltic states and northern European Russia eastward into central Siberia. Finno-Ugric languages are not related to the Indo-european languages

Hungarian language Wiki

Crow:

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was successful experiment

Very but there was a lot of problems since then between these two nations.

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 15:15 #24
All kinds of awesomeness in this

♂

Edited by: Crow Mar 6, 10, 15:58 #25

SeanBM:

Very but there was a lot of problems since then between these two nations.

since then, as you said

SeanBM:

And in Polish people say "internet" so i guess Polish must be a Germanic language huh?
Hungarian is completely different from any Slavic language, in fact it is an anomaly as regards linguistics in Europe.

why you insist on this discussion?

let us presume that Hungarians and Balts aren`t Slavic in their origin. Even in that scenario i can imagine that Balts and Hungarians need Slavs and, for sure, would prefer globalization inside of Slavic world then within that what is alternative.

On the end, Slavic world is much more then some kind of brotherhood. Its entire civilization

EU isn`t good for Slavs. Its foreign civilization, Anglo-Germanic, plus based on Semitic Jewish-Northern African heritage. Slavs should send call to neighboring nations and form Sarmatian Union (Confederation) with them, with Polish language as official

If i as a Serbian from Balkan agree Polish language to be official, i don`t see why would Balts and Hungarians complaint

let us unite and drink, drink, drink... until we forget that we ever failed, until we forget that era of slavery ever happened...

from the movie Ivkova SLAVA (Ivko`s SLAVA) // Serbian celebrate SLAVA in the region that was recently liberated from Turkish rule (19 century); Gypsy music... Serbs, at the table, drinking...

It is song NESANICA (can`t sleep)... meaning INSOMNIA

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 16:02 #26
Crow, can you use Polish fluently? Why do you think that Poland didn't get involved in the Balkans that much? Poles enjoy many freedoms in the EU.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Mar 6, 10, 16:03 #27
Crow: why you insist on this discussion? Just for fun really, it is snowing outside, I have a bit of a hangover and I am bored. You'd make an excellent megalomaniac crow :)

♂

Edited by: Crow Mar 6, 10, 16:05 #28

SeanBM:

Just for fun really, it is snowing outside, I have a bit of a hangover and I am bored.

found some woman yourself and bore her ;)

SeanBM:

You'd make an excellent megalomaniac crow :)

no, i just have erection

Tose Proeski - Koncert - Nesanica

/same song from above but this time in interpretation of famous Macedonian singer/ real Serbian drinking song... `i have old wound on my heart and i can`t sleep,... pain is biggest at the morning`

♂

Mar 7, 10, 14:18 #29

being in th3e EU is better at this point of time, maybe after 20 years Poland will become more 'West' than Western europe in terms of social structure of the nation, and more capitalist than a New Yorker. I want Poland to go down the toilet.
its a bad sore spot shoud cease to exist and RUSSIA should swallow it up. ^_^'

if such a thing as a Slavic union where to exist, I would vote for Low Sorbian or Slovakian as the language.

Romania, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia & Estonia are not Slavic at all. [well Latvia should be, jsut do a 'Kosovo trick' and also replace the official language with Russian]

♂

Mar 7, 10, 16:23 #30

PLAT:

I want Poland to go down the toilet.
its a bad sore spot shoud cease to exist and RUSSIA should swallow it up.

Ty Ruski imperialisto won mi stąd!!!

Crow:

Tose Proeski - Koncert - Nesanica

Nice music Crow :)

Crow:

If i as a Serbian from Balkan agree Polish language to be official, i don`t see why would Balts and Hungarians complaint

Well since Lithunians WANTS to be anything but not Polish it may be a bit difficult, also considering that Latvia and Estonia had Russian occupation under their boot, they don't like to hear anything about Slavic-Union or something. BUT weird enough ive found some pro-Polish sentiments from Latvia-Estonia since they know that Poland "always" have an anti-Russian stand in politics.

SeanBM:

Not at all. They are not Slavic languages, Hungarian is not part of the Slavic family at all.

Not close to Slavic languages I agree but not close to the Slavic culture?

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