POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Tips and Ideas	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Polish Forums / News, Politics /

CHINA - an option?

posts: 18

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Oct 6, 09, 12:13 #1
I have been reading an article on www.rp.pl that after we see that USA care more for Africa then Central-Eastern Europe then maybe China could be an option? They don't have many pro countries in EU so it would spark some anger in Russian AND German brains :D Although it would given Russia a thing to think about before doing anything, since China isn't such a wussy :P

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 6, 09, 12:40 #2
The question is whether China would be interested and would we benefit from it?

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09 ♂	Edited by: wzgrza Oct 6, 09, 20:23 #3
And how many Chinese immigrants would end up in Poland because of it..

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Oct 6, 09, 20:33 #4
China is a nice country :)

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Oct 6, 09, 21:19 #5
I don't recommend starting any business which is innovative in China. That country is known for ripping off patents and other concepts. The living conditions of most factory employees is dismal; many share small one room living quarters by vacating the space when they are working their shift and giving it to the person who just finished working. Well, that's for starters......

George8600Threads: 20 Posts: 1,114 Joined: Feb 19, 09 ♂	Oct 12, 09, 16:10 #6
China (with the biggest workforce and GDP in the world) would most likely be interested in the supply & demand model of Poland (as it already is with almost all European countries) meaning...China manufactures and supplies masses of goods and Poles demand them and China makes the money (with the possiblity of Polish companies making capital as well if those products are owned by them).

OsiedleRuda

Edited by: OsiedleRuda Oct 12, 09, 18:09 #7

wzgrza:

And how many Chinese immigrants would end up in Poland because of it..

Considering how well Chinese immigrants have contributed to the UK, and how little trouble they cause, I think it would do Poland a lot of good. Irrespective of whether one agrees with their methods or not, they are good at business, and Poles quite simply aren't.

Unfortunately, Poland will be fooled by the EU and MTV and is more likely to decide/be forced to to take lots of (what was that phrase you used, RN?) "aspiring rappers" instead, who will contribute to the crime stats and little else. Also, Polish women tend not to fancy Chinese men that much, so all the insecure Polish men need not worry :)

ZIMMY:

The living conditions of most factory employees is dismal; many share small one room living quarters by vacating the space when they are working their shift and giving it to the person who just finished working.

Poles would feel right at home then, lol ;)

George8600:

China (with the biggest workforce and GDP in the world) would most likely be interested in the supply & demand model of Poland (as it already is with almost all European countries) meaning...China manufactures and supplies masses of goods and Poles demand them and China makes the money (with the possiblity of Polish companies making capital as well if those products are owned by them).

This too.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Oct 12, 09, 20:16 #8
OsiedleRuda: they are good at business How ? With all rescept for China... their economy so far has been based on cheap labor and copies (often illegal) of foreign technologies.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Oct 13, 09, 09:22 #9
Grzegorz_: their economy so far has been based on cheap labor and copies (often illegal) of foreign technologies. Wasn't this said about Japan in the 1970's? How everyone made fun of the comical rice-burning Toyotas, now, can you afford a Land Cruiser?

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Oct 13, 09, 17:54 #10
I ment strategicly politicly... But the other stuff is nice too

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Oct 14, 09, 12:03 #11
Let me put it this way, unless you speak English and Mandarin, you will never become a CEO in the future. Don't even reply if you haven't seen it, and I recommend that you see it.

FCW

Feb 18, 10, 08:14 #12

Grzegorz_:

OsiedleRuda:
they are good at business
How ? With all rescept for China... their economy so far has been based on cheap labor and copies (often illegal) of foreign technologies.

Approximately 50 million ethnic Chinese who mostly left after Communist takeover of China have contributed significantly to their new home.

Out of the four Asian Tigers - South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore - only South Korea is not an ethnic Chinese-majority country. Besides that, ethic Chinese community have also actively participated in the building up the economies of various South-East Asian countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Phllippines.

You have to understand the Chinese mentality to know why they are extremely hardworking and business-savvy. The Chinese are extremely proud of their culture and they hardly assimilate into local cultures. Sinophobia of hosting communities has also given rise to the "survival mode" attitude among the ethnic Chinese overseas. They work very hard to earn money and save a big portion for rainy days, but most of all, they save to pay for the education of their children. Having said that, because of the hostility of hosting communities due to their competitiveness, they are extremely accomodating and try as hard as possible to not direct the spotlight on themselves (hence, the Chinese cause less troubles). The other reason why they cause less troubles is also because they know that each man is for himself and that his "motherland" will not come in to protect his interests if he screws up.

Due to these factors, the Chinese inherently see themselves as being the "outsiders" even though they might have settled in, say Malaysia, since the 1500s. They will respect the way of life of their fellow native countrymen, and will never demand that a native society change for them. (Despite being a Chinese-majority country, Singapore's national anthem is in the Malay language - the language of the natives of Singapore)

The Chinese have been negatively stereotyped by many countries around the world, but you will not see them resort to violence or aggression because simply put, they understand their "outsider" position in the society and only hope that they can be given the opportunity to contribute to their new home doing what they are allowed the most freedom to do best : business, since their status has limited their participation in politics.

But it is not wrong to say that most Chinese want to live outside China, simply because for over 5000 years of history, they have lived in a controlled society where freedom is curtailed, from the dynasties of the yesteryears to Communism.

The Chinese love freedom, democracy and capitalism. Wherever free land they have settled in, prosperity will then follow quickly, like mushrooms growing after a long rain.

When the rain stops in their "motherland", I have no doubts that many will begin to head "home".

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Feb 18, 10, 08:49 #13
I wonder what China would look like if the rain stopped? A Han culture worldwide?

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 18, 10, 10:36 #14

FCW:

But it is not wrong to say that most Chinese want to live outside China, simply because for over 5000 years of history, they have lived in a controlled society where freedom is curtailed, from the dynasties of the yesteryears to Communism.

The Chinese love freedom, democracy and capitalism.

Do only I see the contradiction here??? ;)

Mr Grunwald:

I have been reading an article on www.rp.pl that after we see that USA care more for Africa then Central-Eastern Europe then maybe China could be an option? They don't have many pro countries in EU so it would spark some anger in Russian AND German brains :D

Gruni, when you worry about Germany and Russia asserting themselves and looking for their advantages then what do you think the Chinese will do? Cuddling Poland out of sympathy??? ;)

Better close the european ranks for the upcoming clashes..

♂

Feb 18, 10, 11:06 #15

China as an ally? Well, it depends in what way Russia will evolve. For now it is still unclear.
As for USA and NATO, I think that there is some common misunderstanding. USA is important ally for sure, but for Poland NATO is also Germany and others neighbours which are in it. What I mean is, that for Poland NATO as a security construct is valid as long as both Germany and USA are in it. If for example there would be no Germany in NATO then such organization and treaties wouldn't be for Poland much more reliable than pre WWII treaties with France and GB. What is more, if some day EU finally will estabilish common defence, then USA will become less important ally for Poland. It is all about keeping Germany in some security net. USA and NATO is just one of possible tools for that.

As for China, the way I see it, Chinese rising power will gradually threaten Russian domination in east and central Asia, but in the same time it will give Russians great bussiness opportunities. Either way, it will decrease Russian geopolitical pressure on us what ironically gives both states opportunity to finally set normal diplomatic and bussiness relations.

FCW

Feb 19, 10, 11:55 #16

1jola:

I wonder what China would look like if the rain stopped? A Han culture worldwide?

It is natural that one feels fear for the unknown. Nobody knows for sure what may lie ahead once the rain is gone. Han are chauvinistic to a certain extent, I admit, but at the same time, they are extremely empathetic and if they had a conflict with non-Han, the Chinese will not react in a way that makes them look like a hypocrite. They will not be involved in a internal territorial dispute of another country, sell weapons to the foes of a country having a conflict with them (with the exception of Pakistan for reasons I will explain later), or see themselves as being more superior in international diplomacy.

Now, you can come up with counter-arguments saying that the Chinese are not that "good" and they are probably unable to comprehend what is "good". But you can make this discussion useful by just asking yourself if your judgement (or rather prejudice) of China is driven by your fear of something different (xenophoabic), your fear of the rise of a non-Western nation (or rather the "decline" of the global influence of the Western nations, ie superiority-complex), and your belief that a non-Western nation cannot be "good" (racism) ?

On the issue of sales of weapons to Pakistan to counter the Indian "threat" : One thing that is at the core of fear of the Chinese is their territory like all other nations. Argue all you want, but any self-respecting Pole would understand the feeling of a country being torn to pieces by external forces. You can also say that Tibet, Xinjiang and Taiwan are really not part of China, but if the Germans were to claim parts of Western Poland because they were "historically" German, how would you feel ? My point being, land is an extremely sensitive issues to all nations, and any threat to it would turn one into being unreasonable.

Bratwurst Boy:

Do only I see the contradiction here??? ;)

The Chinese also love a stable, peaceful and harmonious society. Pretty much like how the Poles who claimed that they don't hate the Jews, but didn't do anything to help them from the German prosecution in WWII. Pretty much also like how Poles cry racism in Western Europe but are themselves racist towards Africans in their own country.

What I'm saying is, we're all good, bad, righteous, hypocrite, accepting, racist, liberal, conservative - all at the same time. Who we are at a particular moment depends on who we speak to.

♂

Feb 19, 10, 21:21 #17

Sure, Poland should have good relations and trade with China, common sense.

The Chinese have a great and ancient civilization, and also, if you study Chinese history, because of 'Confusian' principles, China has enjoyed long periods of stability, and has rarely taken an aggressive stance with the world outside it's borders. Chinese Communism was 'imported' if you will, and now the Chinese government, although authoritarian, seems to me to be most reasonable in it's dealings.

Just don't make deals where you have Chinese exports flooding your country.

FCW

Feb 21, 10, 05:19 #18

joepilsudski:

Sure, Poland should have good relations and trade with China, common sense.

More often than not, the international media (read: Western) of of China's trading/political power is overly exaggerated.

China might be developing rapidly, but it is still one of the lowest income countries in the world on the per capita basis. Not everybody lives in Shanghai or Hong Kong as shown by the Western media, nor is China about "factories" and "assembly lines".

Many Chinese people still struggle to earn enough to provide for their family, and the lifestyle of the vast majority is definitely not as comfortable as even the Bulgarians (the poorest country in the EU).

But because China as an authoritative country, it has more leverage in international diplomacy since the Communist can come up with measures that facilitate/retard (interest rate, tariffs) their trade with the outside world.

joepilsudski:

Just don't make deals where you have Chinese exports flooding your country.

The basic economics theory of market-demand has to be taught all over again to those countries which have propagated, practised, profited and then play "protectionist" in this "free trade" game.

When the British came in the 1800s to establish trade with China, the Chinese emperor refused saying that China was self-sufficient and that it did not need anything that the British produced.

The British then resorted to the violent means by using it's military mights to pressure China into opening up their market. The British through the East India company brought in opium (drugs) as a "product" of trade. This was followed by the Chinese protest which finally came to it's peak in the Opium War, which the Chinese lost and handed over Hong Kong to the British. It was one of the most humiliating incident of the Chinese, which lead to the collapse of 5000 years of imperial rule.

This event is a very important one for those of you who want to understand why the Chinese behave the way they do today.

If any Western country (especially those former colonist ones) try to play protectionist to suppress the Chinese "cheap goods", they will naturally retaliate due to experience of past incidents.

I don't think they're being unreasonable to expect that the Western world owns up to what they propagated for and profited from - free trade, sovereignty, human rights, democracy, capitalism, etc.

So far, the Western world has failed, and it is not only China which has seen it - all over the non-Western world, we have learnt of the hypocrisy of the West.

Home / News, Politics /

Unanswered [this forum] | Similar

Similar discussions:

DID THE MULATTO SELL POLAND OUT FOR NOTHING?

If I say POLAND, you say...?

Random: In US Court orders gay military service ban lifted

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.

60 [Guests - 42 / Members - 18] users on live forums now

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 20:53 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com