EU tribunal overrules Polish name contest in Lithuania

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May 12, 11, 23:40 #1

The European Court of Justice in Luxembourg has ruled that Lithuania has the right to impose Lithuanian spellings of Polish surnames on its territory.
http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul155244_eu-tribunal-overrule s-polish-name-contest-in-lithuania.html

The Lithuanians are mad that Poles even though they've lived there (in large numbers) for 200 years want to remain Poles and not assimilate. Russians came in large numbers after 1945, today those that didn't go back to Russia have assimilated, pleasing the Lithuanians. In my opinion, the Poles have the right to maintain their identity, they speak both languages, work the Lithuanians shouldn't try to force them to assimilate.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 12, 11, 23:51 #2
Sad news. People should be able to use whatever name they choose. Nationalism is poisonous.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:09 #3
JonnyM: Sad news. People should be able to use whatever name they choose. Nationalism is poisonous. And it's not just the names, road signs in Wileńszczyzna a region where most people are of Polish descent had to be taken down, schools are being closed down, that's discrimination.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:10 #4
PennBoy: And it's not just the names, road signs in Wileńszczyzna a region where most people are of Polish descent had to be taken down, schools are being closed down, that's discrimination. Worse even than discrimination - it's persecution. What are they trying to achieve?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:12 #5
JonnyM: Worse even than discrimination - it's persecution. What are they trying to achieve? They want Poles to mix with Lithuanians as see themselves as Lithuanians, forget that they were ever Polish.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:13 #6
Fat chance of that. And if that's what they really want, they're going about it in the worst possible way.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:17 #7
JonnyM: Fat chance of that. And if that's what they really want, they're going about it in the worst possible way. The association of Poles in Lithuania say they've even started to lie and lower the census numbers of Poles in Lithuania, i guess trying to make people think that Poles are assimilating and they should to.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:27 #8
PennBoy: The Lithuanians are mad that Poles even though they've lived there (in large numbers) for 200 years want to remain Poles and not assimilate. They should just expell them...it worked for Poles, no ethnic tensions anymore.

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May 13, 11, 00:42 #9

Bratwurst Boy:

They should just expell them...it worked for Poles, no ethnic tensions anymore.

I'm all for it, i don't think Poland has any Commonwealth ambitions to regain all it's former eastern territories, so if they wanna remain Poles come back to the fatherland. But Poland is still a relatively poor country if it wasn't no one would even have to ask.

KoalaThreads: 1 Posts: 433 Joined: May 4, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:47 #10
Bratwurst Boy: They should just expell them...it worked for Poles, no ethnic tensions anymore. LOL I think they should do it the German way - by genocide.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:56 #11
Koala: LOL I think they should do it the German way - by genocide. Me? What has Germany to do with that?

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May 13, 11, 00:57 #12

PennBoy:

remain Poles and not assimilate. Russians came in large numbers after 1945, today those that didn't go back to Russia have assimilated, pleasing the Lithuanians.

well PB, you know I like you but I have to admit that whoever lives in another country is expected to assimilate and those who refuse it, never will be treated nicely by the locals. It's not only in Lithuania but just about any other country too.

KoalaThreads: 1 Posts: 433 Joined: May 4, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:59 #13
Germans set up extermination camps where they murdered several million Jews, Poles and other nations.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 13, 11, 00:59 #14
Koala: Germans set up extermination camps where they murdered several million Jews, Poles and other nations. And?

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Edited by: grubas May 13, 11, 01:01 #15
guesswho: well PB, you know I like you but I have to admit that whoever lives in another country is expected to assimilate and those who refuse it, never will be treated nicely by the locals. See, the thing is that the Poles in Lithuania ARE locals.They never moved to Lithuania it is the border that shifted.

KoalaThreads: 1 Posts: 433 Joined: May 4, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:01 #16
Bratwurst Boy: And? We don't know how it would have ended, they were stopped by outside forces. But it certainly is one way (German way) to deal with minorities.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho May 13, 11, 01:02 #17
grubas: See, the thing is that the Poles in Lithuenia ARE locals. Only because you guys claim a part of Lithuania to be your territory.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:03 #18
Koala: We don't know how it would have ended, they were stopped by outside forces. But it certainly is one way (German way) to deal with minorities. Okay...but that has to do with this polish/lithuanian conflict what exactly? I was only trying to be helpful...manno...:(

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May 13, 11, 01:04 #19

guesswho:

well PB, you know I like you but I have to admit that whoever lives in another country is expected to assimilate and those who refuse it, never will be treated nicely by the locals.

I like you too GW, but Lithuania is not America were everyone came from somewhere else, beside ethnic Lithuanians they got two or three larger ethnic groups that's all, plus Poland is right next door. No one is America forces another group to assimilate they do so if they choose. Look at Mexicans, in southern Cali places like LA they are the majority, in many or most parts it's hard to hear English, no one cares.

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Edited by: delphiandomine May 13, 11, 01:05 #20

PennBoy:

The European Court of Justice in Luxembourg has ruled that Lithuania has the right to impose Lithuanian spellings of Polish surnames on its territory.

Strange, strange decision.

Still, I wonder when Poles will allow Lithuanians to have proper Lithuanian spellings of their name in Poland.

Worth also pointing out that in Poland, you cannot have whatever name you wish - there's plenty of examples where registars have refused to register a child unless the name is changed to be in accordance with Polish orthographic norms.

People should be able to spell their name how they want - be it in Lithuanian, German, Polish, whatever.

KoalaThreads: 1 Posts: 433 Joined: May 4, 11 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:07 #21
I think Lithuanians made such restrictions for Polish population only recently because it isn't isolated from the mother country anymore. They can easily travel to and fro Poland, read Polish press, listen to Polish radio etc. - basically all hope was lost for Lithuanians that Poles would assimilate eventually.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside May 13, 11, 01:09 #22
guesswho: Only because you guys claim a part of Lithuania as your territory. Well, I must say that is a very silly sentence,I;m disappointed. Bratwurst Boy: Okay...but that has to do with this polish/lithuanian conflict what exactly? Everything you say has nothing to do with the thread. Stop trolling.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:11 #23
Lithuanians are at home on their ancestral lands, even the area that USED to be Polish was before Lithuanian, no one is gonna chase them away or take it from them. Only thing they could fear is being breaded out, Poles make up less than 7% no fear there, they need to calm down and let them be.

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Edited by: guesswho May 13, 11, 01:19 #24

PennBoy:

No one is America forces another group to assimilate they do so if they choose.

well, America is pretty much the only country which does it that way. If you ask me, I don't necessarily like it. I believe that after 235 years, it's about time for us to start seeing it all as one. I don't have any problems however with people knowing where their ancestors came from. No problems whatsoever with Polish (just an example, it could be German etc.) clubs etc. as long as people realize why they left their country and came here. If someone wants to live here as a foreigner, why he even left his country to begin with? (Not really a question, I know why, no need to explain it).

Ironside:

Well, I must say that is a very silly sentence,I;m disappointed.

no it isn't at all. I've heard it from many Poles when I was in Poland. Unless you're disappointed because you believe that I should actually believe that it really was originally a part of Poland.

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Edited by: grubas May 13, 11, 01:19 #25

guesswho:

well PB, you know I like you but I have to admit that whoever lives in another country is expected to assimilate and those who refuse it, never will be treated nicely by the locals. It's not only in Lithuania but just about any other country too.

What a ridiculous statement.Following your logic you are not local in the US unless you are assimilated with Native Americans.Are you assimilated with the local tribe? Following your logic I am more local in the US than you are since my father in law is a Mohawk.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho May 13, 11, 01:24 #26
grubas: What a ridiculous statement.Following your logic you are not local in the US unless you are assimilated with Native Americans. Then ask yourself who created our country grubas and then we'll see what makes sense and what doesn't. You're getting excited way too fast grubas, lol Nothing is ridiculous about my statement. The natives haven't created the USA, we did.

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May 13, 11, 01:24 #27

guesswho:

No problems whatsoever with Polish (just an example, it could be German etc.) clubs etc. as long as people realize why they left their country and came here. If someone wants to live here as a foreigner, why he even left his country to begin with? (Not really a question, I know why, no need to explain it).

Money, the unanimous number 1 reason, I don't think my parents or me would have ever left Poland if it wasn't to seek a well paying job and a better life 9better financially). I love Poland even after so many years abroad, when i go back i feel and know i'm home, you can't expect people to forget who they are. The Poles in Lithuania, even though they aren't Polish born they still feel Polish.

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Edited by: guesswho May 13, 11, 01:26 #28

PennBoy:

Money, the unanimous number 1 reason, I don't think my parents or me would have ever left Poland if it wasn't to seek a well paying job and a better life 9better financially).

OK, PB I can accept it but not if you came to have a better life and then say, fu*k Americans and everything American. You see what I'm saying?

PennBoy:

you can't expect people to forget who they are

read it again what I said.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:29 #29
guesswho: Then ask yourself who created our country grubas and then we'll see what makes sense and what doesn't. You're getting excited way too fast grubas, lol Well, I did my part assimilating with indigeneus population.You did not then how come you call yourself "local"?

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho May 13, 11, 01:29 #30
grubas: Well, I did my part assimilating with indigeneus population.You did not then how come you call yourself "local"? read my posts before you attack me grubas. Think (please) if we created this country and not them, then we're the locals here in the USA. Our Indians are of course the citizens of the USA too but they haven't created this country even though, they were here before us.

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