The EU's 1 Trillion Dollar Rescue Package

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	May 10, 10, 19:31 #1
Stocks rocketed to their biggest gain in a year and bond prices fell Monday after a nearly $1 trillion plan to contain Europe's debt crisis reassured investors. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37059741/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/ lemme guess.....it's the USA's fault.

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	May 10, 10, 19:59 #2
The social systems in Greece have failed - as all communal schemes do because eventually, there are more people on-the-dole than people paying into it. In short, socialism runs out of 'other people's money'. Too bad those advocating Obama's socialism can't see the light because it's too bright.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 21:11 #3
Greece doesn't have much of an economy, and the Papandreiu family and their cronies have been sucking the country dry for decades...So, the Rothschilds will bail them out and charge ridiculous interest or seize anything worthwhile left in the country, but they will use the Germans money deposited in their banks for the loan in the short term.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 21:20 #4
What an absolute farce! What stupid games these people play! Some people really need to be slapped hard by a big wet fish!

♀

May 10, 10, 21:47 #5

OMG I just cannot believe it dang!!! That is, like, so much worse than ours. It's like, a trillion friggin' dollars you guys are spending. That's only a few trillion less than our entire GDP. Man, you guys got to scale back, do something. You Euros are living way beyond your means. I suggest degrees in engineering and privization of enterprise. Don't let your rancid, corrupt governments run every sector of your economy ffs. Dang!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 21:50 #6
The Greeks have always had a penchant for high living. Still, don't believe that this is purely down to spending, PP, far from it. Do you believe that Icelandic people are spendthrifts too? They can't be given their prices. Prudent people know that money doesn't grow on trees though I'm working on a way to do that ;)

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Edited by: PlasticPole May 10, 10, 21:53 #7
Seanus, dear, it's not just for the Greeks, it's for the PIIGGS, including your beloved British Isles. All these countries are on the verge of ending up like Greece (one of the G in PIIGGS stands for Greece). The trillion dollars is to prop up all the PIIGGS so they don't send all of Europe into a black dog depression, and to stabilize the Euro. The P stands for Portugal, btw.

AdamKadmonThreads: 38 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂	May 10, 10, 21:55 #8
Seanus: Money doesn't grow on trees but 1 trillion dollars will help them grow.

♂

Edited by: Seanus May 10, 10, 21:56 #9

What beloved British isles? Well, when they have been financing your frickin bogus War on Terror, what do you expect? What a wool puller that has been! Let them fall and leave the bailouts out of it. Stabilise the EURO, who really cares about it??

Poland is well above those pathetic games. RIP Skrzypczyk!

I can see I am discussing this issue with non-economists. Help them grow, RIIIIIIIIIIGHT. They need a course on money management first, amongst other things.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 21:59 #10
Britain's problems existed before the War On Terror. In fact, they have been declaring war on terror way longer than we have. They have had a problem with it for much longer and have had to spend money combating it there. You cannot blame the US for Britains lower GDP and spending programs.

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,349 Joined: Feb 20, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 21:59 #11
PlasticPole: The P stands for Portugal, btw. So what do the extra I & G stand for?

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:00 #12
PIIGGS = Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Great Britain and Spain.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:02 #13
At least we have a more accountable Treasury. We didn't let people like Dov Zakheim make off with 2.3 trillion dollars. McCain grilled Rummy on that one. The War in NI was a real one, PP, not a bogus farce to make arms companies money. It wasn't about outright hegemony or geopolitical domination either. Oil neither. You get the picture?

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:05 #14
Seanus, funny you mention companies needing money because yours definitely do. Not that I support sleazy corporate values, but you Brits better shore up your GDP fast because there is such a thing as over leveraged.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:13 #15
Companies need money, funnily enough. We do have volunteer organisations too :) If you weren't already aware, PP, Britain has operated under boom&bust for many years now so platitudes are just platitudes. We don't need trillion dollar rescue packages.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:15 #16
Well, yeah, you do. That trillion dollars doesn't belong to Greece. Greece will get something like two hundred fifty billion. The rest will go to other PIIGGS experiencing financial difficulties.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:21 #17
You haven't stated any proportions yet, PP. Much money is taken out of the British economy anyway in different ways. Still, we couldn't top the feat of clown Bush who single-handedly plunged the US into unprecedented national debt. More than most of the other Presidents combined I believe. Alistair Darling seems to have a better handle on where money goes than Rummy :)

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:21 #18
That remains to be seen, but I'm sure it will be something ;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:24 #19
Well, my talking about it isn't going to solve anything. Let those cretinous mishandlers deal with it and let them also be more cautious with international bankers who are plunging us into an ever deeper crisis. Me, I'll drift off to this beautiful song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbCEQHfDvWk, Enya with Only Time :) Rescue package, LOL, what a joke!

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:28 #20
Yup. More leverage to buy more treasury bonds. That's the scary part. Debt being used to buy more debt becomes a viscious self defeating cycle that no Youtube video can severe.

♂

May 10, 10, 22:30 #21

Seanus:

Alistair Darling seems to have a better handle on where money goes

Yes - he know exactly where every wasted pound has gone. The waste of money during the good years has been frigging disgraceful IMHO. Billions on the NHS - net result more administrators and limited clinical improvement at best. Educashun - lots more quangos, more centralised control and bugger all improvement at the front line.

I'm with PP to a certain extent. The UK economy is in a far bigger mess than has been admitted thus far (surprise that wth the election looming - or should that be having loomed). Not as bad as Greece but the belt tightening is going to be very, very painful.

♂

Edited by: Seanus May 10, 10, 22:33 #22

To me, the whole notion of credit is wide open to abuse. People grab a credit card and are offered all the perks under the sun and think they can buy a Ferrari. Debt is a pernicious disease that, unfortunately, will only become more pervasive in the future. I will never be indebted to anyone as long as I can help it.

Oh, I fear that Britain has lost out too. I was just disputing the extent based on dubious and conflicting figures. There are so many drains on our economy. Job creation for British workers who would keep the money in Britain would be a start but it goes much deeper than that. The War on Terror is a joke! The NHS, well, I have to say that spending MUST be high as Bevan saw it that way. From cradle to grave means extensive costs, there's no way round it. My Dad would be in a better position to comment having worked in the health profession for 29 years and also having lived in Britain continuously for his whole life.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:33 #23
And we in the states need to learn a lesson from this, too :/

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:39 #24
Well, America had all sorts of problems too with Greenspan and Bernanke pulling the strings. The Fed is a corrupt bunch of private sods. Subprime mortgages, no thanks! Those people have no shame!

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	May 10, 10, 22:41 #25
Black holes everywhere.The system has failed.

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Edited by: PlasticPole May 10, 10, 22:44 #26

It's not just Goldman's and their disgraceful Paramutual, albeit that was prime example of subprime corporate values, it's also a matter of this Health Care Reform. Is the Public Option capable of causing us to become like Greece? We got to watch this closely and carefully. We need to keep the raising of revenues foremost on our minds, overshadowing the spending. We are already headed in that direction with the debt we have now. We need to pay some of it off before implementing more expensive govt programs.

♀

May 10, 10, 22:47 #27

PlasticPole:

PIIGGS = Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Great Britain and Spain.

Shouldnt it be PIIGGBS?

Before the banking crisis, it wasnt perfect here, but it was no where near as bad as it is now, the economy was quite healthy in the early to mid 2000s thats why 1,000s of people migrated here from other parts of europe and prospered.

Seanus:

Subprime mortgages, no thanks!

Yep a country where people can just shut the door and walk away because they defaulted on their mortgage..

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 22:49 #28
Um, well. Traditionally the extra G was for GreatBritain, according to Wiki, until the Brits threw a fit because they hate being included in anything Euro. :)

♂

Edited by: Seanus May 10, 10, 22:50 #29

It was said about Obama that he was pulling money from a dark and hidden place, I guess I don't need to spell out where. His spending came at an inopportune moment as America was straight off the back of the downward spiral process into staggering national debt.

The thing is, you don't see the inner workings of the budgetary machine. It is a mystery, even to prominent economists.

Well, PP, if you knew the approach that Thatcher engendered then you will understand why. She wrangled with Norman Lamont over the issue. Britain was never a very willing partner in terms of going along with European initiatives, not least the EURO. It changed under Blair but British sovereignty through symbols like the pound sterling don't disappear overnight.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 10, 10, 23:01 #30
They pull money by cashing in a treasury bond now and then.

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