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Foreign Minister of Poland Radosław Sikorski on visits to Serbia and Macedonia


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CrowThreads: 367
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Edited by: Crow  Nov 9, 10, 17:47    #1
Serbians giving their best to understand good intentions of official Poland and wisdom of Poland`s message to Serbia... considering hostility of EU toward Serbia and partition of Serbian territory. Still, only Poland`s message to Serbia is that Poland could be eventually able to support Serbia`s integration into the EU and NATO. In talks, Sikorski just underlined `Poland’s interest in the integration of the Western Balkans with the Euro-Atlantic structures`. To give you picture how Serbs understand this message... it is same as if Serbs in time of Poland`s partition insisted that Poland give up from independence and stay integrated within Russian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia or Habsburg Austria. But, as we all know, Serbs chooses to support Poland`s independence.

Is this really case that partition of Serbia suits to Poland`s interests or Poland just serve to transfer foreign demands on Serbs? Is this maximum what Poland can do for the Serbians (Racowie)? Is it really possible that modern day Poland isn`t capable to initiated reborn of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, some kind of new Sarmatian League?

Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski on visits to Serbia and Macedonia
2010.11.05, by Marcin Bosacki
http://www.mfa.gov.pl/Foreign,Minister,Radoslaw,Sikorski,on,visits,to, Serbia,and,Macedonia,39098.html
Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski is to pay working visits to the Republic of Serbia and the Republic of Macedonia on Monday, November 8th 2010. While in Belgrade, Minister Sikorski is to meet Serbia’s Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić with a view to addressing, among other things, Serbia’s integration with the European Union.

While in Skopje, Minister Radosław Sikorski and his Macedonian counterpart Antonio Milošoski are to open a Polish-Macedonian conference ‘Macedonia’s Road to the EU’ , dedicated to Poland’s European integration experience. Among the invitees are Polish experts from the Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Police and the Border Guard.In Macedonia Minister Sikorski is to meet for talks President of the Republic of Macedonia Gjorge Ivanov, Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and defence Minister Zoran Konjanovski.

The visit is an expression of Poland’s interest in the integration of the Western Balkans with the Euro-Atlantic structures, against a background of Poland’s upcoming Presidency of the Council of the EU in the second half of 2011.



pgtxThreads: 49
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 Nov 9, 10, 17:56    #2
Crow:
Serbians giving their best to understand good intentions of official Poland and wisdom of Poland`s message to Serbia...

stop this ass kissing already.... hehe...
TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Nov 9, 10, 18:34    #3
Poland under Tusk and Komorowski is nothing more than a German vassal, Crow,
which is not necessarily a bad thing for an average Pole, but you really shouldn't
expect any kind of independent politics from Poland under PO. Those politicians have
a perfect slave mentality. Some people say that in an overwhelming majority of cases
PO-men are either idiots (best case scenario) or traitors (worst case scenario, but probably
much more common) and there are moments when I am inclined to believe them.

Generally, Poland begins to look more and more like PRL (only instead of Moscow we have
Brussels/Berlin now as our overlords.) There is one leading party, gathering more and more
power, lackey press and television serving the leading party and resembling more and more
communist "Trybuna Ludu" and "Dziennik Telewizyjny."

I could go on, but just remember this, Crow: Poland under Generalgouverneur Tusk will do
sweet f*ckall without orders from, or at least approval of, their German overlords
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Nov 9, 10, 19:15    #4
Torq:
not necessarily a bad thing for an average Pole,

really ?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Nov 9, 10, 19:52    #5
Torq:
Poland under Tusk and Komorowski is nothing more than a German vassal, Crow,
which is not necessarily a bad thing for an average Pole, but you really shouldn't
expect any kind of independent politics from Poland under PO. Those politicians have
a perfect slave mentality. Some people say that in an overwhelming majority of cases
PO-men are either idiots (best case scenario) or traitors (worst case scenario, but probably
much more common) and there are moments when I am inclined to believe them.

Generally, Poland begins to look more and more like PRL (only instead of Moscow we have
Brussels/Berlin now as our overlords.) There is one leading party, gathering more and more
power, lackey press and television serving the leading party and resembling more and more
communist "Trybuna Ludu" and "Dziennik Telewizyjny."


Come on Torq, you're not that stupid, surely?

The only reason PO is doing so well at the minute is because Kaczynski and friends can't seem to put up a decent opposition at all. There are *plenty* of people out there who don't like PO's Thatcherite policies, but because of PiS being so bloody useless, they have no alternative. People are screaming out for a moderate, "human face" version of PiS - look at Kaczynski's election campaign - it was absolutely brilliant and highlighted exactly what people wanted. But the party just cannot bring themselves to do it, for whatever reason.

The second that a party starts with a solid, sensible Catholic Socialism policy - it'll win in Poland. PO don't have that much talent in depth - look at their candidate for the Poznan President - he has about as much charisma as a wet duck. If they can't even get good candidates in place for such important elections, they're not that strong electorally.

Anyway, if Poland really was like the PRL, when can we expect to see the abuse of democracy by PO? Hasn't happened yet :(
TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Nov 9, 10, 19:54    #6
Ironside:
so don't make such swiping statements like


I will make any statements I want, and there is absolutely, and I mean abso-feckin-lutely,
nothing that you can do about it :)

Ironside:
that out of your unwashed backside


Very well then - since you ask so nicely, I will elaborate:

Torq:

Poland under Tusk and Komorowski is nothing more than a German vassal (...)
which is not necessarily a bad thing for an average Pole


OK - remember all the time that we are talking about an average Pole here.
Poland being a German vassal may not be a very appealing idea to an elite
member of our nation and an intellectual like you (or, to a lesser extent, me),
but the average Polish "szaraczek" who doesn't have your (or, to a lesser extent,
my) education, social background and wealth, can only benefit from Poland being
a German vassal.

If Poland gives up the idea of conducting independent politics (as we observe with
the government led by Tusk) and becomes a proper German vassal, then with time
the servility of PO towards Germany will finally be rewarded - you know: more economic
support, maybe some lands will even be officially incorporated into Germany (but that
will not be necessary, I think), more German patterns, laws and regulations being
transferred to their Polish vassal etc. etc.

All that would result in:

a) better wages - huge benefit for your average "szaraczek", as he won't have to worry
how to avoid starvation, earning a current Polish minimum wage. He also won't have to
leave Poland, his land, old parents, friends and so on.

b) better health service - so your average "szaraczek" won't have to die, because he
can't afford medication, or because he has to wait for months (sometimes years) for
surgery or other medical procedure.

c) better roads - Germans excell in this area, so maybe your average "szaraczek" won't
have to die in an accident caused by the appalling condition of Polish roads (along with
5000 other Poles that die every year on Polish roads.)

I could go on like that, but my point is that the only "benefits" that your average "szaraczek"
gets from Polish independence are: unemployment, hunger-death-threatening wages,
mass emmigration of an entire generation of Poles, corruption on all levels of power - from
the very top to local authorities, incompetence and idiocy of retarded "urzędnicy", African-like
health service and overall contempt with which the "elites" of this country treat him.

From his point of view, you must admit, the idea of Poland becoming a German vassal
and adopting German patterns in law, health-service, job market, public services etc.
may seem appealing.

For elite intellectuals like you (or, to a much lesser extent, me) this may be painful,
but such is the cruel reality in our part of Europe today.

delphiandomine:
Come on Torq, you're not that stupid, surely?


That's coming from a man who calls PO politics "Thatcherite"...

delphiandomine:
There are *plenty* of people out there who don't like PO's Thatcherite policies


... :)
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Nov 9, 10, 20:19    #7
Torq:
I will make any statements I want, and there is absolutely, and I mean abso-feckin-lutely,
nothing that you can do about it :)

Don't be so sure of it , I can call you names, annoy you, shot at you and so on.....
However I mean that if you say something you better be prepared to explain what you had in mind or people may take you for a light weight !
Torq:
From his point of view, you must admit, the idea of Poland becoming a German vassal
and adopting German patterns in law, health-service, job market, public services etc.
may seem appealing.


provided that German policy envisioned by you here is actually the policy Germany will implement, I can come up with at last one as probable but less beneficial for the average Pole, German policy.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Nov 9, 10, 23:16    #8
delphiandomine:
Catholic Socialism


Erm...any examples for such a policy elsewhere? (working that is)...

Ironside:
provided that German policy envisioned by you here is actually the policy Germany will implement, I can come up with at last one as probable but less beneficial for the average Pole, German policy.


He forgot the merging of our football teams...with one joint polish/german Mannschaft we will win everything! :):):)
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Nov 9, 10, 23:23    #9
Torq:
That's coming from a man who calls PO politics "Thatcherite"...


In terms of the devastating cuts that are going to come, then yes, they are. I don't believe we've seen the start of what Tusk has planned - and it's not going to be pretty.

Bratwurst Boy:
Erm...any examples for such a policy elsewhere? (working that is)..


Hmm. Franco's Spain certainly had elements of it.

But I think it's a pretty uniquely Polish thing - the Church wasn't so strong in other Communist countries. Polish politics are, after all, quite unique.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Nov 9, 10, 23:26    #10
Torq:
Generally, Poland begins to look more and more like PRL (only instead of Moscow we have
Brussels/Berlin now as our overlords.) There is one leading party, gathering more and more
power, lackey press and television serving the leading party and resembling more and more
communist "Trybuna Ludu" and "Dziennik Telewizyjny."


Can you vote in fair and free elections now?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Nov 9, 10, 23:30    #11
SeanBM:
Can you vote in fair and free elections now?


If you listen to Kaczynski's rhetoric lately, he's been talking about how a "mistake" was made. After being at the cross in Warsaw, I get the distinct feeling that certain elements of society actually believe that there isn't democracy.

Still, I registered to vote in the local elections this month - I'll let you know if they weren't free and fair!
enderThreads: 13
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Edited by: ender  Nov 10, 10, 00:19    #12
delphiandomine:
I'll let you know if they weren't free and fair!

like anyone want to hear what zakłamany szmatławiec Gazeta Wyborcza wants to say.
smurfThreads: 46
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 Nov 10, 10, 00:23    #13
Torq:

Torq


can I vote for you?
CrowThreads: 367
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Edited by: Crow  Nov 10, 10, 00:30    #14
Serbian FM Vuk Jeremic already has problems to keep his presence in Serbian government because he deflect from official governmental policy to obey to EU. He is by most of Serbian public seen as representative of patriotic forces and people likes him. So, it is interesting to note that he just after meeting with Polish Sikorski underlined that ``believes there are no conditions for the government to call on Serbs in Kosovo to take part in the elections there in December``, referring on elections on Kosovo that needs to be organized by Kosovo Albanian authorities, meaning by illegal representatives of Kosovo. In the same time, please NOTE, in this diplomatic way, Jeremic underlined that he is in advance (!) against eventual support to illegal Kosovo Albanian elections by Serbian government. So, Jeremic practically confirmed that rift between him and some other forces inside of Serbian government exist. Meaning, Jeremic clearly puts himself on the patriotic side within the existing conflict in Serbian government. But, why would Jeremic send such a message to Sikorski? In my opinion, for only one reason,... must be that Jeremic sees Sikorski as representative of Polish patriots within Polish government. Jeremic sees Sikorski as his allay (natural allay).

FM: Serbs unlikely to vote in Kosovo
8 November 2010 | 13:36 | Source: Tanjug
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=11&dd=08 &nav_id=70771
BELGRADE -- FM Vuk Jeremić sayshe believes there are no conditions for the government to call on Serbs in Kosovo to take part in the elections there in December.

ps
Polish FM Radoslaw Sikorski and Serbian FM Vuk Jeremic

One more interesting quotation from the article... ``Sikorski said that it is natural that his country supports Serbia``. When one diplomat, such as Sikorski, used words `natural that his country supports Serbia` in official visit to Serbia it means that some people in Poland making an allusions on our old alliances and connections. Those are Slavic and even deeper... Sarmatian connections. That again always referees to our (Polish, Serbian,..) independence and specific interests. Such a independence, it is obviously, can be achieved only thru power, thru closer Polish-Serbian ties >>>
After his meeting with Sikorski in Belgrade, Jeremić said that Poland is one of the greatest supporters of EU membership for Serbia and the entire Western Balkans.

"We expect that Poland will keep supporting us on our European path, especially once it takes over the Presidency of the EU in the second half of next year," Jeremić said.

Sikorski said that it is natural that his country supports Serbia on the road to the EU on account of the good relations between the two nations, but that the accession process is tied to progress in reform.

"I encourage you to continue reforms, and the rule of law and cooperation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia are the most important things," Sikoroski said.

He added that "no one would be happier" if the talks between the EU and Serbia could start during the Polish EU presidency.





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