PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
 Unanswered | Archives
Republic of Poland Online Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / News, Politics /

France, Germany and Poland propose EU military HQ: London opposed


page 1 of 2:  1  2  Next » posts: 51

David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 06:40    #1
France, Germany and Poland want the idea of a permanent European Union military headquarters in Brussels to be pursued despite British opposition, their foreign ministers said Monday.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague however on Monday voiced opposition to the mooted EU military headquarters, an idea backed by France for years.

"It is very clear that the United Kingdom will not agree now or in the future to an EU permanent HQ," Hague said after talks with EU counterparts in Brussels.
http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/france-germany-poland-back -permanent-eu-military-hq_163980.html

This is actually a great idea and its amusing and sad at the same time to see that one of the biggest warmongers ( UK ) thinks that this idea is too "costly"
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,432
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Jul 19, 11, 06:56    #2
UK is almost broke so they don't want to finance it.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 07:08    #3
France, Germany, Poland wasn't this military alliance proposed even before WWII ?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 17:38    #4
David, please remind me of the position of William Hague at present. Is he the PM? No, he is not. Does he speak for all the people of the UK? No he doesn't. You have to understand that Conservatives have traditionally been tentative and slightly Euro-sceptical. That's the whole essence of conservatism, preserving the status quo. I thought you would have been happy that the warmongering nation has finally shown some restraint in the military field.
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 19:44    #5
isthatu2:
maybe somthing to do with the UK traditionally not caving in to Germany at the first drop of a spikey helmet.............

Maybe you're right. But still i think its more about UK's pride

The Brits are a proud people and wont let some Krauts or whatever rule over them from Brussel.

Seanus:
David, please remind me of the position of William Hague at present. Is he the PM? No, he is not. Does he speak for all the people of the UK? No he doesn't. You have to understand that Conservatives have traditionally been tentative and slightly Euro-sceptical. That's the whole essence of conservatism, preserving the status quo. I thought you would have been happy that the warmongering nation has finally shown some restraint in the military field.

The UK have been blocking this idea for ages so its not really about this certain man.
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,225
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 19:50    #6
Seanus:
warmongering nation

When were you last here? Million plus on the streets of london against the war...........less than 100,ooo in its standing army and cutting 20.ooo more......yes lols.."warmongering nation"...Seanus,for an educated man you dont half come out with some crap at times.serbia poor victims,britain the great satan..................

David_18:
Maybe you're right. But still i think its more about UK's prideThe Brits are a proud people and wont let some Krauts or whatever rule over them from Brussel.

er,didnt I make that clear in my first post?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Jul 19, 11, 19:50    #7
As I said, David, it's about the traditional resistance to the EU norms. Europhobic drives have primarily come about through external influences like the Bilderberg Group. One key member of its deliberations, Kenneth Clarke (former Tory), was privy to such meetings and he used his sway to orchestrate key changes. To what extent prominent British politicians go pro-Euro is governed often as much by such factions than by their own convictions which are shaped through the prevailing wind blowing at the time.

Why the pressing need for an EU HQ? Is it anything more than a flexing of muscles?

Isthatu2, please please please remember to separate the people from the govt. Opinion polls tend to show that wars are not popular but we all know how some profit from it.

Many Serbian forces were no angels but my objection was to the one-sidedness of things, not so much with the unquestionable guilt of some Serbian factions. It's the age-old terrorist Vs freedom fighter idea.

Isthatu2, shouldn't it be clear to everyone on PF by now that I don't really believe in labels? Warmongering nation, in this case, is merely a truism if taken in a governmental context. It has been taken into unnecessary wars, agreed?
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 19:57    #8
isthatu2:
blah blah blah


Yes UK is one of the biggest warmongers. And they arent the only ones (USA, etc).
Its not a bad thing its just realistic especially after WWII...

Yugoslavia, Iraq, Vietnam, Gulf War, Falklands, Korea, Libya, India, Palestine, Suez, and a crap load of third world countries in Africa.

David_18:
This is actually a great idea


I dont see whats so great about it...
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 20:06    #9
isthatu2:
er,didnt I make that clear in my first post?

So much anger!


Seanus:
Why the pressing need for an EU HQ? Is it anything more than a flexing of muscles?

Seriously i don't know anymore lol...

A lot of things are happening and you cant deny the historical circel of war. War will come sooner or later but the question is when and why.

The oil and gas prices ae rising every year.

the food prices are rising every year.

Common do you really think Europe and the US want to see a strong China and India or even a Russia?

Things are changing and when the poor countries like India and China gets richer their food and oil consumption increases wich mean the prices rise.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 19, 11, 20:41    #10
David, don't be naive and support the very thing those governments want. They are not here to protect us and, as a Pole, you should know full well what it means to come into the line of fire. Just wait til those bombs drop over your head and see where your allegiances lie. Politicians must be crippled before they bring war to our own doorsteps and stopped as they have already brought it to others.
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		Edited by: Amathyst  Jul 19, 11, 20:47    #11
PlasticPole:
UK is almost broke so they don't want to finance it.


Only because we are being bled dry by the EU and its poor relations!

Time to leave...leT them get on with and finance their own ****!

David_18:
permanent European Union military headquarters in Brussels


We have own military headquarters in the UK..

David_18:
Maybe you're right. But still i think its more about UK's pride


Or maybe we're just not stupid?
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		Edited by: Amathyst  Jul 19, 11, 20:56    #12
legend:
Falklands,


British Island that was invaded....No choice but to protect it's land and subjects...Im proud I have two cousins who were there to see it to the end!
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: NomadatNet  Aug 5, 11, 23:46    #13
British Foreign Secretary William Hague however on Monday voiced opposition to the mooted EU military headquarters, an idea backed by France for years.

His voice isn't the voice of his party, is voice of House of Lords. In UK, foreign relations and military issues are decided by House of Lords, not by Houce of Commons who are elected people. My guess is these two houses have different opinions on foreign relations including this EU military headquarter suggested by France (mainly) and Germany with Poland siding with these two and House of Lords have domination onto House of Commons in such issues related to UK's foreign policies. For example, Blair had no choice but to enter Iraq as House of Lords had decided to enter Iraq. Not only Poland's, but also EU's main problem is House of Lords of UK, who see themselves above EU.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: JonnyM  Aug 5, 11, 23:50    #14
Falklands

You're confusing 'warmongering' with defence of sovereign territory.
His voice isn't the voice of his party, is voice of House of Lords. In UK, foreign relations and military issues are decided by House of Lords, not by Houce of Commons

No it isn't and no they aren't.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:01    #15
No it isn't and no they aren't.


House of Commons makes the law and sends it to be passed in the House of Lords. Then, Lords pass it to the Queen. So, Lords do nothing, but only passing/transmitting the laws? In domestic laws, maybe. But, in foreign relations, not. Otherwise, keeping about 800 Lords there for passing the laws to the Queen is totally absurd if they have no word on foreign relations and military too. I am almost sure that Blair had no choice other than listening to the decision of House of Lords.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:06    #16

House of Commons makes the law and sends it to be passed in the House of Lords.

And if they don't like it the law passes anyway. And neither they nor her majesty have any role in foreign policy.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:17    #17
And if they don't like it the law passes anyway. And neither they nor her majesty have any role in foreign policy.


If so, even if they (Lords) don't like, if law passes anyway, why are those 800 people there? Symbolic? (Even seeing laws before being sent to Queen means somethings, means an advantage to someones (lords or whoevers) to make economic or political profits - lets be real. Nobody believes they are symbolic humans there.)
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:24    #18
why are those 800 people there? Symbolic?

Their experience in public life is valued. That is why they are appointed by the various political parties.
Even seeing laws before being sent to Queen means somethings, means an advantage to someones (lords or whoevers) to make economic or political profits - lets be real. Nobody believes they are symbolic humans there.)

Everybody is 'seeing laws before being sent to queen'. They are published in full before they are discussed by parliament and publicly available at every stage. Any and every member of society has the right to make their feelings known about a government's proposals as part of the political process. Many do just that

Britain is one of the most democratic societies in the history of the world. And the people's will on the matter of a joint European military command is well enough known
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:38    #19
Their experience in public life is valued. That is why they are appointed by the various political parties.


Are you paying money to them Lords for their experiences which won't be important anyway as the laws will pass even if they don't agree, they don't like? Nonsense. If what you say is really true, totally nonsense.. If not, then, they are doing some critical things (behind the curtains such as deciding about foreign relations, military movements, etc.)
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:41    #20
Are you paying money to them Lords

A minimal amount and their experience is priceless.
If not, then, they are doing some critical things (behind the curtains such as deciding about foreign relations, military movements, etc.

No. No conspiracies at all.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:53    #21
A minimal amount and their experience is priceless.


Every retired person who has worked enough has some experiences in their fields. and they are paid some minimal amounts of money.. But, they do not put their noses into works anymore. Are those Lords someones like retired people? Then, give their minimal amount of money and let them leave seats, so that they can enjoy their own personal lifes at holiday places.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 00:56    #22

Every retired person who has worked enough has some experiences in their fields. and they are paid some minimal amounts of money..

But not all of them are retired presidents of banks, elder statesmen, trade union leaders, world class scientists, human rights campaigners etc.
But, they do not put their noses into works anymore

Nor do members of the House of Lords.
Then, give their minimal amount of money and let them leave seats, so that they can enjoy their own personal lifes at holiday places.

I would think that most members aren't on the breadline. In any case, very few of them work anything like full time. That's why we have 800.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:07    #23
I'll say this if the experience is important.

A poor English man over there who has worked hard to earn his life for many years has more experience than those lords in the life. There are probably millions of such people over there. Have them sit in Lord seats. More than millions. At least, they can understand poor English people and can be more useful than those lords.

This House pf Lords thing is totally in contradiction with House of Commons as ones are unelected and the others are elected members. Democracy is a path toward individual responsibilities and House of Lords is an obstacle on that road. Then, people siding with existence of House of Lords have a destiny to stay as kids always even in their old ages..
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:14    #24
A poor English man over there who has worked hard to earn his life for many years has more experience than those lords in the life.

Somehow I doubt that he has more experience in public life.
Have them sit in Lord seats. More than millions. At least, they can understand poor English people and can be more useful than those lords.

Quite a few members have come up the hard way.
Democracy is a path toward individual responsibilities and House of Lords is an obstacle on that road.

Yes nevertheless a valued part of one of the world's greatest, freest and most successful democracies.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:22    #25
Somehow I doubt that he has more experience in public life.


Difference between a poor ordinary man who has worked hard to earn money, his life, and a lord who was born with no money problem like a poor man is that:

poor man knows the money and the life.
lord knows kingdom and related things such as diplomacy, military, etc.

i'd prefer to listen to his advices of poor man or any ordinary man who has experienced life details. it is much more complicated than royal relations at top levels. Those royals like lords need ordinary people to be able to live better. Poor men or ordinary people don't need those lords to be able to live better, they can live anywhere, in any condition.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:28    #26
i'd prefer to listen to his advices of poor man or any ordinary man who has experienced life details.

You might. Most of us would prefer government to consist of the competent rather than the merely wizened.
ord who was born with no money problem like a poor man is that

You do realise that there are ex-factory workers and coal miners in the House of Lords?
it is much more complicated than royal relations at top levels

???
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:41    #27
You might. Most of us would prefer government to consist of the competent rather than the merely wizened.


Masses competing each others under flags completed their missions. World is globalized enough, and old country-government/kingdom systems competing each others completed their this mission and should/shall be history very soon.. Today, it is not about governments competing each others anymore, it is about socializations, governments' works about socializations and challenges in their own folks. Wars won't be between countries anymore. Cold war period between governments and people in their domains. In that stage, House of Lords are useless as they have never experienced such things before in their lifes. They have always tried to keep their own people together - as their minds were about competing with other countries and when necessary, sending their own people to wars. Wars are in local scales now. Lowest scale is the war of a poor man who is trying to earn his life. This has been forgotten.. Lords will take lessons from those poors more, or, they won't be able to survive anymore.

Ex-coal miner workers too in the lords? Only a very small percentage, isn't it? They are real symbolic ones to close their eyes of others who have been complaining big majority of Lords.

Royal relations are easier now as those royals have had to compete with limited competents while a poor or ordinary man in the life has enemies in every corner of the life in daily lifes. Royals/kings etc were difficult when they were going to war fields themselves too in front of troops. But, such things were centuries ago.
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
Posts: 1,652
Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 01:53    #28
His voice isn't the voice of his party, is voice of House of Lords. In UK, foreign relations and military issues are decided by House of Lords, not by Houce of Commons who are elected people.

Who told you such BS
NomadatNetThreads: 6
Posts: 1,492
Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 02:08    #29
Who told you such BS


Some anonymous persons from England.

Will those "experienced" lords leave such important decisions about foreign relations, military movements, etc to some elected average Joes of House of Commons elected by electorate average ordinary people?
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Aug 6, 11, 02:08    #30
Who told you such BS

The voices in his head.

page 1 of 2:  1  2  Next »

Home / News, Politics / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

Bombs go off in Krakow, Wealthy being targeted according to Police.  Iwona Wieczorek - one year since her disappearance


Random: Colonel Mikolaj Sciborski - unknown Polish leader of OUN

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


57 [Guests - 38 / Members - 19] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 21:02 / May 26

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising
© 2005-12 PolishForums.com