France, Germany and Poland propose EU military HQ: London opposed

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 07:56 #31
France, Germany, Poland wasn't this military alliance proposed even before WWII ? what do you need an alliance for with exactly those who want to screw you most

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Aug 6, 11, 11:57 #32

Reality is that. There are 5 UN powers with veto right at UN. You may say they aren't important, but, they are. Not that their weapon power is important, their veto right is important.

So, with whom do you (Poland) prefer to be with one of these? Britain, USA, France, Russia and China.

Since Poland is in EU and has economy relations with Germany mostly, and since France is one of two main supporters of EU together with Germany, it is natural to be with France with veto power and with Germany centered EU. In short term, allying with any other may not be so good for Poland. Maybe, it can be good with USA, but, their military of USA is close ally of Britain, but, Britain isn't really supportive of EU. Also, France with veto power is the least offensive one among those 5 with veto right.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 12:07 #33
gumishu: what do you need an alliance for with exactly those who want to screw you most Exactly NN: So, with whom do you (Poland) prefer to be with one of these? Britain, USA, France, Russia and China. NATO

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 12:55 #34
Nato isn't member country of UN, hence, no veto power at UN. When France and Britian disagree about a thing, Nato becomes useless as seen at war in Iraq, etc - lately, at Libya case in that there was no agreement in the Nato really, hence, operation Libya became weak.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 13:00 #35
Nato isn't member country of UN, hence, no veto power at UN. what does Poland actually need a UN veto power for?

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Aug 6, 11, 13:12 #36

what does Poland actually need a UN veto power for?

All countries need to have a UN veto power with on their sides. Otherwise, when a problem happens with your country, none of those 5 with veto power may use veto power, you can be beaten "legally" by UN.. Poland may or may not need veto power now, but, all countries think the future and they chose one of those 5 with veto powers. EU is mostly around France about this veto right. But, France is made weak due to military close allies of Britain and USA in Nato. Only when France give permission, Nato can activate under UN operations.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: gumishu Aug 6, 11, 13:17 #37
if one sad day Russia invades Poland the UN won't help us because Russia HAS A VETO POWER there - so what does Poland need a UN veto power for??? and heed now - we will soon have proper Russia on our border as they are going to take Belarus over (officially under the ZBIR - Union of Belarus and Russia form) btw look up what zbir means in Polish - funny aside ;)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 6, 11, 13:19 #38
Poland can save itself only within Slavija. Only Slavija means life and light

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Aug 6, 11, 13:22 #39

if one sad day Russia invades Poland the UN won't help us because Russia HAS A VETO POWER there - so what does Poland need a UN veto power for???

and heed now - we will soon have proper Russia on our border as they are going to take Belarus over (officially under the ZBIR - Union of Belarus and Russia form)

If Russia does this, it won't be under UN.. It'll be Russia's own movement only - like Britain-USA's own military movements happened in Iraq.

The worst is operation under UN.. Nobody will help you then. So, those 5 with veto powers have been forcing all other countries in the world to be with one of them.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 15:24 #40
Nato isn't member country of UN, hence, no veto power at UN. So what. So, those 5 with veto powers have been forcing all other countries in the world to be with one of them. They are anyway.

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Aug 6, 11, 17:55 #41

Nomad: So, with whom do you (Poland) prefer to be with one of these? Britain, USA, France, Russia and China.

JonnyM: NATO

Nomad: Nato isn't member country of UN, hence, no veto power at UN.

JonnyM: So what.

Nato military power, not a UN member and Nato usually do operations under UN.
Nato has fractures inside, mainly due to disagreements in politics between Britain and France. Since this topic is about EU military led by France and opposed by Britain, Nato in this case won't be taking any side about Poland.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 18:17 #42
Nato military power, not a UN member and Nato usually do operations under UN. And all its members also UN members. There won't be an EU military HQ due to the veto.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Edited by: NomadatNet Aug 6, 11, 18:22 #43
UN doesn't put its nose into a new military formation, unless there is humanity crisis. EU military won't be voted at UN.. France, Germany and Poland can form EU military together also being backed by other EU members, but, UK's objection is risky as it puts EU into disintegration risk.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 19:04 #44
EU military won't be voted at UN.. France, Germany and Poland can form EU military together also being backed by other EU members EU military will be voted at the EU, The UK has a veto abd will certinly use it.

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Aug 6, 11, 19:38 #45

EU military will be voted at the EU, The UK has a veto abd will certinly use it.

Sure. And, no voting is necessary as UK's foreign minister already said no.
So, UK sees itself as the only bodyguard while France opposes this.
If France-Germany-Poland insist on voting about EU military, either EU will have big problem or, my claim, House of Lords in UK will have a big problem. (my guess is elected members, House of Commons, of UK is on EU side while Lords aren't.)

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 19:53 #46
Poland It''s not Poland, It's just that koont Tusk hoping to get some little ****** job in EU structures.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 6, 11, 20:12 #47
It''s not Poland, It's just that koont Tusk hoping to get some little ****** job in EU structures. Riiiight. Nothing to do at all with the Polish irrational fear of imaginary Russian invasions, no, not at all. Let's face it, your opposition to this is everything to do with racism and nothing to do with pragmatism.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 20:31 #48
your opposition to this is everything to do with racism When I think you can get any dumber, you quickly prove me wrong.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 6, 11, 20:47 #49
When I think you can get any dumber, you quickly prove me wrong. Let's face it - all this whining about Germans and Russians isn't based on anything except good old fashioned racism. Don't bother trying to cover it up with intellectual bullshit.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Aug 6, 11, 21:06 #50
all this whining Which one ? isn't based on anything except good old fashioned racism. You are sinking to the new lows. Go get a job.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 6, 11, 21:08 #51
Go get a job. Hahahaha. Is that what you say to your friends in PiS? I mean, most of their supporters could do well to actually get a job instead of claiming false "renta".

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