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The future of Poland and the European Union


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Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
Posts: 276
Joined: Jul 4, 09
 Aug 14, 09, 09:14    #61
Crow:
Pane, for your information, it wasn`t my comment

Oh, honest mistake. Sorry.

Crow:
?

explain, please

To be "ignorant" of something means "not to know". The implication tends to be that this is willful, but the definition is just a lack of knowledge.

madpsychocat:
I was refering to africans and muslims. Not quite the ottoman fighting or jewish minorities.

Oh, silly me. And here I was thinking you were talking about, in your exact words, "muslims and other minorities".

madpsychocatThreads: -
Posts: 15
Joined: Jul 30, 09
Edited by: madpsychocat  Aug 14, 09, 09:40    #62
I'm new to these forums. I thought the post was about opinions about EU if it worked or not. It seems to be more about bashing individuals. Crow you know best, I'm ignorant and happy. I still don't understand your point of view, but I know that I'm wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.

Pan Kazimierz:
Oh, silly me. And here I was thinking you were talking about, in your exact words, "muslims and other minorities".

I was refering to the minorities in the UK, not minorities in Poland. I meant they are different groups, that's all, not that Poland doesn't have them. If you ever been to somewhere like Bradford in the UK you'd see, it's like middle East and horrible, and the government allows it to grow and grow. Areas full of mosques,etc. I do believe civil war in the UK is likely to happen in the next 50 years. But I'm sure Crow will tell me I'm wrong here too...

And Crow, thanks for the example. Bear in mind that Britain like any other country will keep it's foreign policies hidden from it's media. Like USA training Bin Laden and supporting Saddam Hussain in the 80's against USSR and Iran. To get the real stories you have to dig.
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
Posts: 276
Joined: Jul 4, 09
 Aug 14, 09, 10:22    #63
madpsychocat:
I'm new to these forums. I thought the post was about opinions about EU if it worked or not. It seems to be more about bashing individuals.

I'm pretty new myself, but from what I can tell you, this particular board appears to exist solely so that non-Poles can bash the Poles and the Poles-and-people-of-Polish-descent can defend themselves while bashing the rest of the world. Crow is here to convince people that the Slavs are the best people in the world, and that they should all put aside their differences and unite into a force that will one day, eh, I dunno... rule the world or something? And also that the EU and NATO are there to make everyone Muslim.
He's really quite a likeable and rather pleasant person. Comparable to, oh say, Caboose from Red vs. Blue, if anyone here watches that. What? It's funny!

madpsychocat:
If you ever been to somewhere like Bradford in the UK you'd see, it's like middle East and horrible, and the government allows it to grow and grow. Areas full of mosques,etc.

Only comparable area I've ever been was the local black 'ghetto' in the States, which was apparently second worst in the state or something? Lots of drugs and guns and killings and the like. I had the misfortune of having to drive through it a couple of nights a week (nights not being a good time to drive through such a place), and eventually learned just to take my father's truck (a manual, unusual in the States) so that, when a group of shadowy figures in highly visible white t-shirts ceased their activities huddling around something on the side of the road to casually stroll out in a group in front of me, I could just downshift and continue at the same speed to make lots of noise and scare them out of the way. Not a safe place for a young white person to be at night - like hell was I stopping!

madpsychocat:
I do believe civil war in the UK is likely to happen in the next 50 years. But I'm sure Crow will tell me I'm wrong here too...

I sincerely doubt it, somehow.

madpsychocat:
Britain like any other country will keep it's foreign policies hidden from it's media. Like USA training Bin Laden and supporting Saddam Hussain in the 80's against USSR and Iran.

That wasn't exactly 'hidden'. It was well-known info at the time, and instantly became far less publicized once it was no longer Russia but the US meddling in the area, and consequently fighting the locals which they'd just trained to fight their enemy. But even now, it's not like they pretend it never happened or anything. They just don't want to talk about it anymore.
madpsychocatThreads: -
Posts: 15
Joined: Jul 30, 09
 Aug 14, 09, 11:04    #64
Ok, so civil war might be extreme, but there are groups growing as per the link below:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6794080.ece

But then it might be because of football season not being on...
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
Posts: 276
Joined: Jul 4, 09
 Aug 14, 09, 11:11    #65
^I mean, I sincerely doubt Crow will tell you that you're wrong about the civil war thing. I know next to nothing about the topic, and can't comment, myself.
MatowyThreads: 1
Posts: 519
Joined: Jul 4, 09
 Aug 14, 09, 16:10    #66
madpsychocat:
If you ever been to somewhere like Bradford in the UK you'd see, it's like middle East and horrible, and the government allows it to grow and grow.

I don't think I would equate it to being like the Middle-East (as the Middle-East is generally a pleasant place), but you are right in that Bradford is indeed horrible. Probably the single worst place in the UK. The whole place is just like some city-wide ghetto.

madpsychocat:
I do believe civil war in the UK is likely to happen in the next 50 years.

Every place has its disagreements, it rarely leads to war. Civil War is nowhere near on the horizon. That's a bit of an extremity to jump to.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 18:07    #67
Matowy:
Bradford is indeed horrible

Due to lack of integration. Why dont we just integrate. After a century...they'll be just one of us! We can integrate enough to alter even their very race, phsyche. A suggestion :)
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 18:14    #68
Lodz_The_Boat:
Why dont we just integrate. After a century...they'll be just one of us!

If we integrate, we will be like them. If they integrate, they will be like us.

I think precious few of them have no intentions of integrating.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 18:21    #69
Well...I think both of us must come closer to each other. As they are minorities, and living in our lands...calling this home. We probably should take the first step.

I am not calling for those who want to be left alone. But those who want to come closer, shouldnt be pushed back due to the unfriendly/unacceptable nature and behaviour of their fellow men.

We shouldnt generalize them. We must realize that its our home. And for most of them its their home too. To have peace in home we must do our best.

Its important to welcome them. Trust me friends, I have noticed how much ready they become if you give them your hand of friendship. I also noticed how insane and ignorant some of them can be.

But the point is... we must not push back those who are to be one of us. One of us doesnt mean being in a disco or drunk with a glass of vodka (as some people often imagines). Its being Polish (or any other European place). Its being among us, being accepted and accepting....being more tolerant...more integrated. Allowing themselves to mix!

Once its done... Europe will be Europe and just more strong. And dont worry about any other matter :) ... they will remain the same! It works.
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 18:29    #70
Poland is a nice place. Somebody who lives in a crappy place (for example environment, politics, religion, economy, health care and educational standards) comes to a nice place (let us say Poland for example). Why should Polish people change something that works for them (society in general) to accommodate someone from a place that doesn't work? I think those people going to a nicer place should strive to become more like those in the place they are going to. When in Rome.....

Now I agree that those people from the nice place should encourage and warmly accept those that do come from the crappy place who intend to embrace and strengthen those principles which drew them to that nice place to start with, but it should not be tolerated that those from the crappy place should bring the nice place down to the standards of that place from whence they came.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 18:34    #71
FredChopin:
crappy place should bring the nice place down to the standards of that place from whence they came.

There is no place as a Crappy place. Just there are places which have been less fortunate due to many geographic, political and other such reasons. All place on earth was made beautiful by the Creator. Ald I strongly believe that oneday all of them will shine equally. They all receive the light of the same sun.

However, Poland has made some grounds...just like other places in Europe. We have been unfortunate in the past, but now as good fortune seems to be nearer to us, then we should not forget that there are people who might be looking at us, and wanting to be among us to share the warmth. I think they have as much rights as we have over them. Its one world, and we all must live in it together. Otherwise it will not work. Who knows that the future has for us, or anyone else.

Yes I agree that those who wants to bring the place down are the same people who have brougt their place down. They should be into rehabs.
DaisyThreads: 16
Posts: 2,172
Joined: Apr 28, 07
 Pictures: 2
Edited by: Daisy  Aug 15, 09, 18:44    #72
madpsychocat:
Ok, so civil war might be extreme, but there are groups growing as per the link below:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6794080.ece

But then it might be because of football season not being on...

This was created because of this



I am no supporter of the BNP, or any other far right group, but when I look at this film at 1:01 and see the elderly man try and get at them, only to be pushed back by the police, I get very upset, he is probably old enough to have fought in WWII, he had come out that day like the other people in the crowd, to support the army on their homecoming from Afghanistan, 12 of them never made it back.

I don't agree with the war in Iraq or our troops being in Afghanistan, but it's politicians who make these decisions, for the troops it's 'There's not to reason why, there's but to do and die'

Had I been in that crowd I would have been bloody angry. This is why it pisses me off when people come on this site slagging of Poles, who only come here to work hard and make a life for themselves.
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 18:46    #73
Lodz_The_Boat:
There is no place as a Crappy place.

Tell that to those unfortunates in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and the West Bank. The creator may have made them nice places, but they certainly would qualify as crappy these days.

Lodz_The_Boat:
They all receive the light of the same sun.

But the way their leadership / religious dictatorship has ruled the people negates all the wonderous beauty the creator bestowed upon them.

Lodz_The_Boat:
and wanting to be among us to share the warmth

as long as they don't try to mess up the "warmth" that generations of people have strived to create...
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 19:02    #74
FredChopin:
Tell that to those unfortunates in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and the West Bank. The creator may have made them nice places, but they certainly would qualify as crappy these days.

Due to their misfortune. And ofcourse, mistakes.

FredChopin:
But the way their leadership / religious dictatorship has ruled the people negates all the wonderous beauty the creator bestowed upon them.

I agree. But we were fortunate in the 1940's and 90's. They were not.

FredChopin:
as long as they don't try to mess up the "warmth" that generations of people have strived to create...

Say 'Those who try...' not 'They...'. When you say 'They' you throw the stone blindly, and it may hit an innocent child, someone who could oneday be the greatgrandfather of a Polish President or Revolutionary. It can well happen... if he integrates and mixed in from now.

Their are Poles and many Europeans who would try equally to destroy peace and tolerance in our lands. They have tried many times before havent they? We must deal situations according to what they are. Not just out of rage or doubts.
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 19:10    #75
Lodz_The_Boat:
When you say 'They' you throw the stone blindly, and it may hit an innocent child,

I throw the stone at those who refuse to integrate. If the child is taught by someone who would change Poland to suit their needs, it is likely the child will be of similar mind. The apple never falls far from the tree.

Lodz_The_Boat:
It can well happen... if he integrates and mixed in from now.

I agree, if he integrates to his newly adopted society.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
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 Aug 15, 09, 19:13    #76
Lodz_the_Boat, get the boat. They choose to come here, then they live by OUR rules. End of. Why should we give up our way of life to pander to them?

When in Rome......
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 19:18    #77
RevokeNice:
Why should we give up our way of life to pander to them?

And when did I say we should give up our way of life?

From thousands of years man gave up what it doesnt need to be more successful and happy. He did not give up the bad things in life because of someone else. It was all because of ourselves. Not because we feel there is a defficiency...but because we know that we still strive to reach efficiency.

FredChopin:
The apple never falls far from the tree.

Oh it carried far... the seeds. Apple trees have been there for a long time...carried so many places. Apple is there...will always be there...for this same reason. Otherwise the first apple tree would've been the last one. :)
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 19:22    #78
Lodz_The_Boat:
Oh it carried far... the seeds. Apple trees have been there for a long time...

I am concerned about one generation at a time. While I agree that a long term view is important, today's and tomorrow's generation of bad apples will ruin things in the short term.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 19:33    #79
FredChopin:
bad apples will ruin things in the short term

I am saying that the bad apples need rehabs. All apple in the tree is not bad.
scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
Joined: Apr 28, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 20:02    #80
Bratwurst Boy:
There is not much "Great" in Great Britain left...no special relationship to the US anymore (at least one that pays off), no "ruling the waves" anymore

Anytime I see an EU meeting on TV. It's usually the British delagate arguing with everyone else.

I'm not sure they're whipped though; a lot of intellectual capital. Definitely the most interesting country in the EU in terms of coming change. However, you can't eat pride at the end of the day. You've got to produce something not just move money around. Hint, hint .. US. :- (

True, relationship with the States / GB is probably fractured right now. They're tough to deal with long term. Germany, Canada, Austrailia, Ireland and the Asians are easier.. on average anyway.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 20:05    #81
We must find areas of common interests. Areas which are bright. We must move together. Atleast that should be te ideology :)
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09
 Aug 15, 09, 20:46    #82
Lodz_The_Boat:
I am saying that the bad apples need rehabs. All apple in the tree is not bad.

We can agree on that at least....

Lodz_The_Boat:
Atleast that should be te ideology :)

Convincing those that would not adopt that philosophy is the heart of the problem though.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08
 Aug 15, 09, 21:09    #83
FredChopin:
Convincing those that would not adopt that philosophy is the heart of the problem though.

UK, USA...etc.... they need to understand that we can only move forward together... and it simple. No one nowadays is so insignificant. Not even the smallest country.
scrappletonThreads: -
Posts: 1,365
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Edited by: scrappleton  Aug 15, 09, 21:29    #84
Lodz_The_Boat:
UK, USA...etc.... they need to understand that we can only move forward together...

Nahh disagree, the US doesn't really need the UK. UK is basically banking, financial services. It does want closer ties with Germany though.. or the greater EU. Germany will be creating jobs and opportunities relatively soon. Italy as well, if Fiat buys Chrysler it might be a good situation.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
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[Suspended]
 Aug 15, 09, 23:06    #85
scrappleton:
Germany will be creating jobs and opportunities relatively soon.

Read up on whats happening to Germany, it wont be creating jobs or opportunities anytime soon.
TheOtherThreads: 5
Posts: 1,584
Joined: Jul 13, 09
Edited by: TheOther  Aug 15, 09, 23:16    #86
Sokrates:
Read up on whats happening to Germany

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_eu_economy
ShelleySThreads: 18
Posts: 3,647
Joined: Jun 26, 07
 Aug 15, 09, 23:31    #87
Sokrates:
Read up on whats happening to Germany, it wont be creating jobs or opportunities anytime soon.

Germany and France are coming out of the recession.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09
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 Aug 16, 09, 00:16    #88
Lodz_The_Boat:
We must find areas of common interests. Areas which are bright. We must move together. Atleast that should be te ideology :)

We must, we must. Ask me bollocks. No to Lisbon and death to the EU. The EU started as a trading bloc, pity it didnt stay that way.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,432
Joined: May 28, 09
 Aug 16, 09, 00:18    #89
RevokeNice:
The EU started as a trading bloc, pity it didnt stay that way.

The EU will become the most powerful force on the planet so prepare.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09
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Edited by: RevokeNice  Aug 16, 09, 00:20    #90
PlasticPole:
The EU will become the most powerful force on the planet so prepare.

Europhiles like you would love that wouldnt you. The EU will fall.

You Poles are only in it a wet day, the biggest mistake the EU has ever made was allowing the ten accession states in. It will be its downfall.


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