Did George Soros want to destroy Poland with his economic shock therapy?

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Edited by: Moderator Jul 5, 11, 15:54 #1

"Poland: In late 1989, Soros organized a secret meeting between the "reform" communist government of Prime Minister Mieczyslaw Rakowski and the leaders of the then-illegal Solidarnosc trade union organization. According to well-informed Polish sources, at that 1989 meeting, Soros unveiled his "plan" for Poland: The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

http://mindbodypolitic.com/2010/04/20/soros-and-shock-therapy-in-polan d/

url + 100 words

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Jul 5, 11, 16:28 #2

Soros did not want to destroy Poland; he wanted to control it; same as in the U.S. where he has spent hundreds of millions for his causes. For example, his 527 groups that he funds include Moveon.org, (527 groups are tax-exempt organizations that engage in political activities, often through unlimited soft money contributions.)

In his book, "The Crisis of Global Capitalization" he states; "The owners of capital seek to maximise their profits. Left to their own devices, they would continue to accumulate capital until the situation became unbalanced. Marx and Engels gave a very good analysis of the capitalist system 150 years ago, better in some ways, I must say, than the equilibrium theory of classical economics"

That's an interesting comment from a so-called capitalist.

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Jul 5, 11, 21:17 #3

PolskiMoc:

The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

So, PolskiMoc - what do you know about Communist economics?

For instance, what do you know about cross-subsidisation? Perhaps - instead of quoting articles - you can explain to us why these industries collapsed as soon as the State subsidies were withdrawn? If they were so economically valuable - why did they collapse?

PolskiMoc:

and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

They weren't 'burdened' with debt - they created it. Unlike the Communist system, these industries had to pay their own way - and many couldn't.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 5, 11, 22:06 #4
He's the dangerous sort that typifies the NWO goons. He can combine systems to suit his own ends. Naomi Klein has issued the best warnings in her well-researched book. I didn't understand it 100% as I read it in Polish but she alerts us to the games played by such bozos.

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08 ♂	Edited by: rock Jul 5, 11, 22:56 #5
Is not he very old ? He is probably planning for his life after death.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jul 6, 11, 18:09 #6

PolskiMoc:

"Poland: In late 1989, Soros organized a secret meeting between the "reform" communist government of Prime Minister Mieczyslaw Rakowski and the leaders of the then-illegal Solidarnosc trade union organization. According to well-informed Polish sources, at that 1989 meeting, Soros unveiled his "plan" for Poland: The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

This is the general plan for Europe and the United States: to bankrupt industry, have widespread currency speculation, and an unpayable 'sovereign debt' owed to international money-center banks by governments.

It used to be called a 'robber-baron' plan, but now is referred to as this and that, whatever seems most palatable to the the media.

This plan was used to devastating effect in Russia during the Eltsin regime, by Oligarchs allied with Western shysters from Harvard University and Wall Street.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jul 6, 11, 18:34 #7
Next thing you will be quoting the protocols.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Jul 6, 11, 22:33 #8
sobieski: Next thing you will be quoting the protocols. Hell, you can just read the NY Times, the Economist or Soros's own writing...Or ask Putin.

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Edited by: convex Jul 7, 11, 13:46 #9

PolskiMoc:

Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

Let's see how that was actually written:

Stop supporting unviable Communist-era businesses by charging market interest rates, not providing grants of taxpayer money, and stop forgiving the debt that they owe to ordinary citizens.

Sounds like capitalism vs socialism, or?

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Jul 7, 11, 14:12 #10
convex: Stop supporting unviable Communist-era businesses by charging market interest rates, not providing grants of taxpayer money, and stop forgiving the debt that they owe to ordinary citizens. You are forgetting that richer western countries are doing exactly that to businesses and subsidizing farmers as well, to protect their own market.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 7, 11, 14:20 #11
Bzibzioh: You are forgetting that richer western countries are doing exactly that to businesses and subsidizing farmers as well, to protect their own market. I couldn't agree with you more, and I think it's a huge mistake that ends up impeding growth.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jul 7, 11, 14:41 #12
Did George Soros want to destroy Poland with his economic shock therapy? Yes

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Edited by: Llamatic Jul 9, 11, 05:26 #13

PolskiMoc:

said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

joepilsudski:

This is the general plan for Europe and the United States: to bankrupt industry, have widespread currency speculation, and an unpayable 'sovereign debt' owed to international money-center banks by governments.

This is exactly what this Commie scum has in mine for the US too. That's his MO, he subscribes to the Cloward-Piven approach of overwhelming economies in order to intentionally crash them so they can then be remade in his Leftist Commie Socialist ideal.
George Soros is an evil, evil man. Obama is a Soros follower. This is why, despite his phony lip service, he has no real interest in reducing US debt nor spending and keeps pushing forward with his failed and misguided Keynesian spending approach to our economy. He wants our economy to crumble. It's all about killing Capitalism from within to pave the way for Socialism.

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Jul 9, 11, 06:09 #14

PolskiMoc:

"Poland: In late 1989, Soros organized a secret meeting between the "reform" communist government of Prime Minister Mieczyslaw Rakowski and the leaders of the then-illegal Solidarnosc trade union organization. According to well-informed Polish sources, at that 1989 meeting, Soros unveiled his "plan" for Poland: The communists must let Solidarnosc take over the government, so as to gain the confidence of the population. Then, said Soros, the state must act to bankrupt its own industrial and agricultural enterprises, using astronomical interest rates, withholding state credits, and burdening firms with unpayable debt.

Rubbish. Shock therapy was a good, indeed an essential move by the government of the time, and it is one of the reasons why the Polish economy is so successful today.

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Jul 9, 11, 10:59 #15

Llamatic:

George Soros is an evil, evil man. Obama is a Soros follower. This is why, despite his phony lip service, he has no real interest in reducing US debt nor spending and keeps pushing forward with his failed and misguided Keynesian spending approach to our economy. He wants our economy to crumble. It's all about killing Capitalism from within to pave the way for Socialism.

Gotta love a so called "rightist" attacking one of the greatest examples of capitalism going.

If Soros is a socialist, then you really need to take that tin foil hat off. I don't call a man who earnt billions with currency speculation "socialist".

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Jul 9, 11, 21:17 #16

delphiandomine:

one of the greatest examples of capitalism going.

If Soros is a socialist, then you really need to take that tin foil hat off. I don't call a man who earnt billions with currency speculation "socialist".

Clearly you know nothing of what you speak.
Leftist are shameless hypocrites, they, like Soros, are more than willing to use capitalism means to reach their Socialist ends. Besides, they're all about spreading other people's money, not their own.

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Edited by: Bzibzioh Jul 9, 11, 21:48 #17

delphiandomine:

I don't call a man who earnt billions with currency speculation "socialist".

Speaking of currency speculation: Soros is called the “man who broke the Bank of England”.

In 1990 Britain decided join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, thereby forcing its currency to shadow the Deutsche Mark. To do this, Britain’s central bank had to buy the currency to keep it inflated, while simultaneously keeping interest rates abnormally high to stoke foreign interest in the currency. It worked for a time – until one speculator came along. Soros saw the error in the bank’s ways and shorted it for a whopping $10- billion. It was a risky bet, based on the idea that the bank couldn’t keep the pound artificially elevated for much longer. The Bank of England finally flinched in September 1992 and withdrew its pound-buying program. The pound plummeted by a third shortly after.

LlamaticThreads: 4 Posts: 605 Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 9, 11, 21:53 #18
Bzibzioh: Soros is called the “man who broke the Bank of England”. Sure, scumbag Commie Soros killed the pound just as he's trying to kill the dollar. That's him MO. He needs to be deported... or shot for treason.

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Jul 9, 11, 21:59 #19

Bzibzioh:

Speaking of currency speculation: Soros is called the “man who broke the Bank of England”.

Yep. Hardly the actions of a socialist, or a communist, is it?

Soros is seen in the UK as the typical greedy billionaire who had no qualms about hurting the country for financial gain - but he's also seen as the guy who invigorated the UK economy. Certainly no allegations of "socialist" or "communist" there - although I'm aware that it's the usual dirty word thrown at enemies in America.

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Jul 9, 11, 22:05 #20

Youre all socialists but dont even know it.

I was chatting with a political socialist party today after a work out at my gym, they were just standing in the street, a two man band with a table and a few leaflets. One didnt have a clue but the other was very on the level. They were poor people with socialistic views, obviously working class their entire lives, with a "were not taking this anymore attitude". It was indeed humbling speaking to a man that has worked most of his adult life for the establishment to not be rich in a monetary sense at all. He had been exploited.

In any case we agreed on many levels, he knew what he wanted but wasnt accepting on the complete abolition of the monetary system at all. I keep trying but so far not much success.

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Jul 9, 11, 22:50 #21

Wroclaw Boy:

It was indeed humbling speaking to a man that has worked most of his adult life for the establishment to not be rich in a monetary sense at all. He had been exploited.

Oh brother. Just stop. He obviously could have managed his money better. Plenty of peeps havew spent their lives working and indeed retain something to show for it. Didja even bother asking him what he wasted his income on all those years? Nope.

Wroclaw Boy:

we agreed on many levels

No surprise here.

Wroclaw Boy:

he knew what he wanted but wasnt accepting on the complete abolition of the monetary system

See, Socialists are hypocrites. Capitalism has done him well his entire life but now he wants something for nothing, so he throws it under the bus. You should have told him to move to some Socialist craphole country if that's what he wanted to live under instead of trying to ruin that one.

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Edited by: Moderator Jul 10, 11, 01:15 #22

Llamatic:

Oh brother. Just stop. He obviously could have managed his money better. Plenty of peeps havew spent their lives working and indeed retain something to show for it. Didja even bother asking him what he wasted his income on all those years? Nope.

Whats he gonna waste minimum income on? I didnt ask him his life story he probably had a house with a paid off mortgage.

Llamatic:

See, Socialists are hypocrites. Capitalism has done him well his entire life but now he wants something for nothing, so he throws it under the bus. You should have told him to move to some Socialist craphole country if that's what he wanted to live under instead of trying to ruin that one.

People who have done well for themselves in a financial manner are capitalists and the rest are socialists - right. Isnt that how the system works? I have nothing more to add on that subject.

Filters are here for a reason.

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jul 10, 11, 01:23 #23

Llamatic:

Socialists are hypocrites.

Capitalists will become hypocrites the minute the capitalism system stops working for them and stop working it will, its happening already. Youre only apposed to the social system as its been inbred into you from a young age. We are all products of our environment.

Earlier you said you would die for your country but you refused to comment if you would actually kill me, thats human nature versus brainwashing, i would never kill you or anybody else no matter what. Did you decline to say on principle grounds or moral?

You need to seriously re-evaluate your morals or/and political stance.

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Jul 10, 11, 05:03 #24

Wroclaw Boy:

he probably had a house with a paid off mortgage

So that minimun wager likely did pretty well for himself in that horrible capitalist system after all. So not only is he an ingrate but also a hypocrite. ;)

Wroclaw Boy:

People who have done well for themselves in a financial manner are capitalists and the rest are socialists - right.

Soros is a financial terrorist.

Wroclaw Boy:

I have nothing more to add on that subject.

Good. Oh, wait...

Wroclaw Boy:

Youre only apposed to the social system as its been inbred into you from a young age.

Hardly. It's more about the unfairness of spreading my hard earned wealth to the lazy folks.

Wroclaw Boy:

We are all products of our environment.

I don't know what the environment was like where you were raised. Cloudy with a strong chance of nutty? Lol.

Wroclaw Boy:

you refused to comment if you would actually kill me

I didn't refuse. I just didn't.

Wroclaw Boy:

Did you decline to say on principle grounds or moral?

On account that it was a dumb question. Yes, if you were the enemy I would kill you if that was my job to do for my country.

Wroclaw Boy:

You need to seriously re-evaluate your morals or/and political stance.

Your "stance" and your politics are a mess.

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Jul 10, 11, 05:09 #25

Llamatic:

Soros is a financial terrorist.

Your politics are a mess - surely as a "rightist" - you should endorse him? I mean - he played the markets and did very well for himself - surely every "rightist" would see him as a hero for putting business above personal feelings?

Llamatic:

Hardly. It's more about the unfairness of spreading my hard earned wealth to the lazy folks.

Why are you against Soros, then?

Seems to me that you are only "rightist" when it comes to people that you support, otherwise, you just revert to the same old lazy routine of throwing accusations at those who don't agree with you.

LlamaticThreads: 4 Posts: 605 Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 10, 11, 05:19 #26
Umm, no.

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Jul 10, 11, 05:39 #27

soros is a financial terrorist and anyone can make money on inside info, he is the manipulator of currencies and psychopath. I have seen interview with him and the question was "do you feel some remorse and how do you remember your time working for Nazi sending Jews to dead" he said ""no I do not feel remorse and the time period I remember fondly I felt power" what kind psycho feels power from sending people to their dead.
as what I seen in Poland is theft the communists knew what was going on and they sold each other businesses for fraction of price so they become the rich the ruling class again and working people as always got screwed and I am sure soros profited from it as well with his manipulations.
People in p]Poland did not want to privatize they wanted to keep it and run the businesses as co-owners.

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Jul 10, 11, 12:11 #28

Marek11111:

People in p]Poland did not want to privatize they wanted to keep it and run the businesses as co-owners.

Correct. However, experience shows us that they simply didn't have the ability - many State owned factories, run by Solidarność management failed miserably in the free market.

Privatisation was also the only way out - Poland needed hard cash, and simply didn't have the money anymore to sustain the system. The country was more or less hovering on bankruptcy - how could they afford to keep the factories while giving the people what they wanted? It just wouldn't have worked.

Tell me, given the dire economic crisis that Poland was in - what would you have done differently?

I've still never heard a clear "alternative" answer for what happened - look at the ex-Communist countries of Europe that are now in the EU - none of them are significantly better off than Poland, despite different methods used. Slovenia is, but they started from a far better base (it was the wealthiest Yugoslav Republic and Yugoslavia was far wealthier than Poland). The rest? About the same level.

The ultra-capitalist approach that was adopted was by far the best one - it gave Poland a clear platform to move on, and while the short term pain was bad - in the long term, Poland is prospering.

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Jul 10, 11, 12:16 #29

Ability or know-how, delph? There is a difference. You can't expect those who lived under communism for 43 years to suddenly adapt to a whole new way of doing things. You should know that communism regiments practices, sowing the seeds deep into minds. It is not done by half measures. Even countries in the West who were more accustomed to free market practices had people guide them through the pitfalls and those who helped to maximise their performance. If the politicians don't create the conditions for people to flourish then they are always going to face an uphill battle.

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Jul 10, 11, 21:15 #30

delphiandomine:
Correct. However, experience shows us that they simply didn't have the ability - many State owned factories, run by Solidarność management failed miserably in the free market.

as I said Soros had his manipulating hand in it to make sure co-ownership will fail.
If economists or governments or banks are using words like free market that means they are about to screw you hold on to your packet.

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