Grafitti plague in Warsaw

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May 9, 11, 08:07 #1

http://www.zw.com.pl/artykul/596209_Swieza-sciana-i-juz-bazgrol.html
Interesting article in ZW this morning. There is really a lot of grafitti in the city, practically every building is sprayed. I do not understand what drives the imbeciles who do that. For example the newly renovated platforms at Dworzec Gdański were sprayed within a few days They should put them with their head in a can of paint and parade them on an oxcart through the city. Each time I go home to my native Antwerp I really see the contrast. Warsaw is literally sprayed over.
One thing is curious though - I cannot remember any church wall with grafitti - I wonder why...

MaaarysiaThreads: 3 Posts: 541 Joined: Feb 27, 10 ♀	May 9, 11, 08:17 #2
I heard cases when actually graffiti makers were caught... and guess what the cases against them were withdraw due to little harmness of an act! No wonder that whole Poland is scribbled with graffiti!

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 9, 11, 12:20 #3
sobieski: Each time I go home to my native Antwerp I really see the contrast. Warsaw is literally sprayed over. Yes, it is a big problem. Practically, only buildings in well lit streets and under camera surveillance are safe. I can undertsand they do it in such areas: But why here?:

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May 9, 11, 12:48 #4

People, don't you have other problems? I don't mind graffiti at all, I like it. Some of it is rubbish but on the whole it makes the sad concrete world more colourful

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 9, 11, 12:55 #5
sobieski: For example the newly renovated platforms at Dworzec Gdański were sprayed within a few days Come on Sobieski, you are 3-4 minute walk away from Polonia Football ground, what do you expect?

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May 9, 11, 13:57 #6

chichimera:

I don't mind graffiti at all,

What part of 'vandalism' don't you understand? The pictures you posted are mostly likely made with the owner's consent and not grafitti at all (which by definition is defacement of property that does not belong to the person doing it).

Just how does grafitti improve this sign?

Grafitti vandalism reduces property values (which will be a concern to you if you ever own anything) and weakens social trust (vital for advanced civilizations to function).

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May 9, 11, 14:35 #7

mafketis:

The pictures you posted are mostly likely made with the owner's consent and not grafitti at all (which by definition is defacement of property that does not belong to the person doing it).

Graffiti (singular: graffito; the plural is used as a mass noun) is the name for images or lettering scratched, scrawled, painted or marked in any manner on property. Graffiti is any type of public markings that may appear in the forms of simple written words to elaborate wall paintings. Graffiti has existed since ancient times, with examples dating back to Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire

For more look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti

Well, I don't support the idea of orderly, machine-like, sterile world. I like the defiance that graffiti shows.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 9, 11, 14:55 #8
chichimera: Well, I don't support the idea of orderly, machine-like, sterile world. I like the defiance that graffiti shows. what is machine like in say Łazienki - and how will it look like sprayed all over??? 'czyste miasto = martwe miasto' - oh well then Neapol was once alive to the fullest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWuO-aI6GCs

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Edited by: mafketis May 9, 11, 15:22 #9
That definition is inadequate since it makes any kind of public sign grafitti If you like defiance, then maybe you'll like this charming bit of grafitti on a catholic church https://curiouspresbyterian.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/hate-message-kill -the-catholics-spray-painted-on-catholic-church-wall/

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Edited by: JonnyM May 9, 11, 15:51 #10

mafketis:

this charming bit of grafitti on a catholic church

I noticed that when the grafitti vandals 'tagged' the cemetary wall in Pludy, near Tarchomin, they had the manners to write 'przepraszam' underneath.

chichimera:

People, don't you have other problems? I don't mind graffiti at all, I like it. Some of it is rubbish but on the whole it makes the sad concrete world more colourful

Those photos you posted are 'good' grafitti. Unfortunately that accounts for far less than one percent of grafitti round Warsaw. Almost all of it is mindless scrawling by teenagers and football slogans. Even on newly painted residential buildings.

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May 9, 11, 16:43 #11

Grafitti degrades a city. It also gives a feeling (and promotes) of unsafety. It is a blatant disregard for other people's property. And railcars and other public spaces are also (our) property. It is done by pondlife which respects nothing.
In my neighbourhood they not only sprayed the walls of a nice Italian restaurent but also scratched their tags into every window.
That is a blatant crime - their tags should be burned on their foreheads.
Still the question - why do these criminals do not spray church walls?

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	May 9, 11, 16:59 #12
sobieski: Still the question - why do these criminals do not spray church walls? They do, just rarely. But the fara church in Poznan was hit a few years ago. Generally, Polish people, no matter how 'unreligious' they are still respect church property, they just don't care about other people's or the public's property.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	May 9, 11, 18:08 #13
sobieski: Grafitti degrades a city. It also gives a feeling (and promotes) of unsafety. Spoken like a petite bourgeois. You need to change your name Sobieski. Your little shopkeeper's fears degrade a noble name. chichimera: Well, I don't support the idea of orderly, machine-like, sterile world. I like the defiance that graffiti shows. Hear hear! Let art prevail by any means necessary!

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 9, 11, 18:21 #14
sobieski: There is really a lot of grafitti in the city, practically every building is sprayed. some parts of wroclaw have a similar problem. but it is not grafitti as such. just mindless tagging. if something is not done to stop it visitors will have a dim view come euro 2012 also, wroclaw is going for 'city of culture' in 2016. the city should look a right dump by then.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 9, 11, 18:21 #15
Des Essientes: Hear hear! Let art prevail by any means necessary! Tagging is about as artistic as dogs leaving masterpieces on the sidewalks.

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May 9, 11, 18:53 #16

Des Essientes:

little shopkeeper's fears

"Little shopkeepers" are the guys who have to pay for the walls to be repainted or otherwise have their already banal lives blighted further by omnipresent and very depressing signs of urban decay.

Wake up to the reality of walking home from an underpaid job every wintry day through a bleak housing estate in Stalowa Wola, Sieradz or Tluszcz to your only home that has 'KURWA', 'HWDP', 'HOOLS' and 'ŁKS ZYDZI' sprayed in foot high letters right outside your only window on the wall that you struggle to pay the fundusz remontowy to have repainted every 25 years.

Move out of your sophomoric (at best) teenage fantasy and show some respect.

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May 9, 11, 20:18 #17

Des Essientes:

Quote

sobieski:
Grafitti degrades a city. It also gives a feeling (and promotes) of unsafety.

Spoken like a petite bourgeois. You need to change your name Sobieski. Your little shopkeeper's fears degrade a noble name.

Tell this to my neighbour who has every window of his restaurant scratched by a hooded criminal. Tell this to all the worthy people whi see their homes degraded by these criminals. Shopkeeper's fears? What about common decency?

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May 9, 11, 20:43 #18

JonnyM:

Wake up to the reality of walking home from an underpaid job every wintry day through a bleak housing estate in Stalowa Wola, Sieradz or Tluszcz to your only home that has 'KURWA', 'HWDP', 'HOOLS' and 'ŁKS ZYDZI' sprayed in foot high letters right outside your only window on the wall that you struggle to pay the fundusz remontowy to have repainted every 25 years.

Move out of your sophomoric (at best) teenage fantasy and show some respect.

Tell him what does it mean "Żydzi" for Polish hools... he will change his mind about graffiti immediately ;)

Des Essientes:

Let art prevail by any means necessary!

This is not art. I see rarely arty graffities.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 9, 11, 21:58 #19
Maaarysia: This is not art. I see rarely arty graffities. Come to Krakow:

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May 9, 11, 22:02 #20

JonnyM:

'good' grafitti. Unfortunately that accounts for far less than one percent of grafitti round Warsaw

Maaarysia:

This is not art. I see rarely arty graffities

I rarely see movies that one could call art. It's just rubbish littering people's minds. And can be more harmful than HWDP on the wall. Shall we make cinematography illegal? Actually I'd be happy to see some of the film makers made accountable.

sobieski: Life isn't safe. From the moment we're born we've been in danger. Every living thing on Earth is. We imagined that there is a state of being perfectly safe. If graffiti calls you back to reality, maybe it does a better job than religions.

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Edited by: Maaarysia May 9, 11, 22:02 #21

pawian:

Come to Krakow:

Those graffities are ordered graffities. Once I've made one myself for my school. It's completely different thing. What I meant is that the illegal graffities are rarely artistic.

chichimera:

I rarely see movies that one could call art. It's just rubbish littering people's minds. And can be more harmful than HWDP on the wall. Shall we make cinematography illegal? Actually I'd be happy to see some of the film makers made accountable.

Do movie makers destroy somebody's property? No.

As it goes for street art I like wlepki but wlepki are indeed an art!

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 9, 11, 22:12 #22
Maaarysia: Those graffities are ordered graffities. Yes, I think so. Maaarysia: Once I've made one myself for my school. This one?

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Edited by: Maaarysia May 9, 11, 22:20 #23

pawian:

This one?

Probably made for some graffiti festival but who knows, maybe...
Most of the illegals are simple tags (a signature of the graffiti painter) and that's not art! I like graffitis which shows something more than letters. I've seen few illegals in a style of comic book creatures and I like it. But it's maybe 5% of the graffitis in general. Most are simple scribbles or ugly black and white bulky tags.

Oh and I like stencil graffiti. Banksy works are very smart and aesthetic.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian May 9, 11, 22:39 #24
Maaarysia: Probably made for some graffiti festival but who knows, maybe... Grafitti on a school building for a festival? :):):) Maaarysia: I like graffitis which shows something more than letters. A picture? Maaarysia: But it's maybe 5% of the graffitis in general. Most are simple scribbles or ugly black and white bulky tags. Exactly.

chichimeraThreads: 3 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 4, 11 ♀	May 9, 11, 22:52 #25
Maaarysia: Oh and I like stencil graffiti. Banksy works are very smart and aesthetic. Oh, a wonderful example. Before he became famous and his work appreciated, Banksy'd been a street vandal :)

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Edited by: Maaarysia May 9, 11, 22:53 #26

pawian:

Grafitti on a school building for a festival? :):):)

It looks too proffessional. The background was painted white - it looks like it was prepared specially for this graffiti :)

pawian:

A picture?

If it wasn't a football hooligan gang it would look quite nice :)

chichimera:

Banksy'd been a street vandal :)

Chichmera you don't talk with any art tasteless people. I can ensure you of that.
I can see when something is pretty. But most graffiti is not pretty, on the contrary - is blemishing. Additionally many graffiti in Poland is made by football hooligans and is nothing more than "Legia pany" etc. signature

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May 10, 11, 00:01 #27

Maaarysia:

Chichmera you don't talk with any art tasteless people. I can ensure you of that.

I've never said or even thought something like that.
BUT if you take the spray away from a Legia fan, you'll have to take it away from everyone.
And what is art after all? Who is to decide? It's an expression, isn't it? Maybe someone feels the need to express "Legia pany", maybe that's what they feel is important. It doesn't kill anyone, does it?

If you like Banksy, you might know the film already, but in case you don't, have a look at it. It's fun :)

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Edited by: JonnyM May 10, 11, 00:08 #28

chichimera:

I rarely see movies that one could call art.

Perhaps you watch the wrong movies. Strange that, since you only seem to notice the 'right' grafitti.

chichimera:

It's just rubbish littering people's minds. And can be more harmful than HWDP on the wall. Shall we make cinematography illegal? Actually I'd be happy to see some of the film makers made accountable.

Nonsense, as usual. If you think a film's harmful, don't go and see it. don't buy the DVD, don't download it. don't watch that channel. But how do you avoid HWDP, LEGIA KURWY, ZYZDI WON, meaningless teenage tags etc unless you walk around with your eyes closed. Perhaps you do?

chichimera:

It doesn't kill anyone, does it?

No, but it does spoil the wall that they've paid to have painted and look grimly depressing as they're going about your business.

Here's a deal for you Chimichera, if you like grafitti so much, give me a spray can and let me decorate the walls of your family's house. After all, don't I have a right to express myself?

chichimeraThreads: 3 Posts: 356 Joined: Feb 4, 11 ♀	Edited by: chichimera May 10, 11, 00:25 #29
JonnyM: Nonsense, as usual No, but you clearly look but you don't see. JonnyM: give me a spray can and let me decorate the walls of your family's house You're welcome. I really couldn't be bothered if there was Legia Kurwy on my wall

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 10, 11, 00:29 #30
Des Essientes: Hear hear! Let art prevail by any means necessary! So, you won't mind when we come to graffiti your house, then?

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