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Holocaust was a Jewish invention, says top Polish bishop

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♂

Edited by: Harry Jan 26, 10, 12:55 #1

I'm sure that this is going to prove hugely helpful in improving Polish-Jewish relations.

Bishop Tadeusz Pieronek, one of Poland’s most prominent religious figures, is reported to have told an Italian Catholic news web site that the Holocaust was a "Jewish invention". The bishop says his remarks were “taken out of context” however.

"The Holocaust, as such, is a Jewish invention [invenzione ebraica]. We could just as well establish a day of remembrance to the numerous victims of communism, when Catholics and Christians were persecuted," he told the Pontifex.Roma web site on Sunday.

In remarks that will outrage Jews the world over, Bishop Pieronek said that in his opinion the memory of the Holocaust is often used as a “propaganda weapon” by Israel.

The Krakow-based bishop said: “Undoubtedly, the majority of those who died in the concentration camps were Jews, but also on the list were Poles, Gypsies, Italians and Catholics. So do not steal this tragedy in the name of propaganda.”

“But they, the Jews, have a good press, because the powerful have the financial resources - extremely powerful with the unconditional support of the United States. And this promotes a kind of arrogance, which I consider to be unbearable,” Bishop Pieronek continued.

Full article here.

And it's beautifully timed: the ceremony commemorating the 65th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz is tomorrow.

Another gem:

Pieronek told the Web site Pontifex.roma that while the Holocaust was not exclusively Jewish, Jews had monopolized it in lieu of encouraging "serious historical debate, free from prejudice and victimization."

From here.

And just in case there was any doubt as to the bishop's sanity:

Pieronek vehemently denied that his words stemmed from anti-Semitism. "The anti-Semitic history of Poland is an invention," he said. "A joke ... offensive to our people."

Also from here.

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Jan 26, 10, 13:32 #2

To say that it was a Jewish invention is nonsense. Yes, the figures may have been fabricated or exagerrated but to say that the Jews invented the whole thing is going far too far. They do use it as propaganda in some ways but try to understand the losses involved. Poland mourned the loss of many in WWII but Katyń and the Warsaw assaults were not on the same scale.

Ahmedinejad was put on the spot by Larry King and kept ducking the Holocaust question. The Jews just didn't have God on their side there. They did in the Bible which allowed the Israelites to capture the Promised Land. Such attention seekers like that bishop should be slapped with a big, wet fish :)

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Jan 26, 10, 13:48 #3

Harry:

I'm sure that this is going to prove hugely helpful in improving Polish-Jewish relations.

They are morons on both sides. You seem to see only those on Polish side. What else is new?

Do you want examples? Read the latest Jewish "gem" - "Passing of time doesn’t absolve injustice"

http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18400& Itemid=86

"In November 2009, in a roomful of invited guests from all walks of life, the Righteous Among Nations, Poles who helped Jews who were in hiding, were feted. This took place in Montreal at a luncheon sponsored by the Quebec Jewish Congress and the Montreal Holocaust Memorial Centre (“Polish official objects to blaming her country for Nazi camps,” Nov. 19). Their heroic actions were brought to the surface and into the consciousness of people who might otherwise not even know this story.
However, a great injustice is done to these heroic people by mentioning them in the same sentence as their “nation,” as the letter does. The “nation” failed the Jewish people who were Polish citizens. The hatred and animosity toward Jews continued in Poland long past the end of World War II. When survivors returned to the country of their birth, there was no moral or spiritual support extended to them. Instead, survivors experienced threats, attacks and murder. There was a pogrom during which dozens of Jews were massacred in Kielce, Poland, on July 4, 1946. Jews were left with no other choice but to flee the country where they were born – this was my family’s fate – and where they had lived as loyal citizens for generations, and contributed socially, culturally and economically. The passing of time does not absolve anyone or any nation from injustice.
Pola Cukier, Hollywood, Fla. "

It's hilarious: they are Poles when involved in pogroms but not Poles when saving Jews from Holocaust. It's the arrogance bishop Pieronek was talking about.

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Jan 26, 10, 13:55 #4

Also, it is very important to question conventional wisdom. Wasn't it the case that the Kielce Pogroms were staged to give Poles a bad name? I can't remember the authors but there were certainly credible stories to that effect. Also, let us always remember that historians are often very divided on any given issue and that we weren't there so let's no be so sure of ourselves.

There is anti-Semitism here, just not as large scale as some would like to believe. It exists in many parts of the world but should be qualified to anti-Zionist. Oy vey!

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Jan 26, 10, 14:10 #5

Bzibzioh:

They are morons on both sides.

Only a complete moron would fail to agree that Poland as a nation did fail its Jewish citizens between 1945 and 1989.

Seanus:

Wasn't it the case that the Kielce Pogroms were staged to give Poles a bad name?

Yes, and so was Jedwabne, and all the 89,300 Poles who joined the Polish army after being in the German armed forces were actually not Polish, and no Pole ever did anything bad ever, etc etc ad nauseam.

Seanus:

Also, let us always remember that historians are often very divided on any given issue and that we weren't there so let's no be so sure of ourselves.

Interesting to see you adopting the language of the holocaust deniers.

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Jan 26, 10, 14:27 #6

I didn't read up on Jedwabne (isn't that silk? LOL, jebwabniu) so I can't comment. Wasn't that just repatriotisation? ;) ;) The Poles are not guilt free and they know that.

The language of the Holocaust deniers is 'there was no Holocaust' and I have never said that. I just know that the figures are grossly distorted as they can't all be right. The consensus would appear to be 6,000,000 Jews killed.

I was just encouraging caution as none of us here can prove that figure accurately.

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Jan 26, 10, 14:31 #7

Seanus:

The Poles are not guilt free and they know that.

Care for a bet on that?

Seanus:

The language of the Holocaust deniers is 'there was no Holocaust' and I have never said that. I just know that the figures are grossly distorted as they can't all be right. The consensus would appear to be 6,000,000 Jews killed.

I was just encouraging caution as none of us here can prove that figure accurately

So you're more of a neo-denier, a holocaust minimiser?

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Jan 26, 10, 14:33 #8

2 days ago I was joking that It's a matter of time when this stuff is going to make a huge oy vey about "Polish antisemitism" :)) And It isn't suprising at all, who posted this stuff here, is It ?

By the way (or rather first of all) Pieronek denied saying these things and there doesn't seem to be anything proving that he did say that.

By the way 2, Jedwabne already in the 5th post, wow ! But I understand that fitting 1600 people into a single barn is a big deal, who else would be able to do that ?

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 14:39 #9
Seanus: The language of the Holocaust deniers is 'there was no Holocaust'. Don't you find it weird thing about HD's that they go on about how there never was a holocaust whilst apparently wishing there had been! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7078401/Poland-revives-its- Jewish-past.html

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Edited by: Seanus Jan 26, 10, 14:40 #10

Some know and some don't. I was talking about the rational ones.

My position is clear. It's very difficult to accurately verify that 6 million died and we just have to go with best evidence on the matter. I'm just saying, look at the authors of those stats and also don't accept things as given. I don't deny the Holocaust, nor do I attempt to minimise it as I don't have the figures to back up any claims I might choose to make.

Trevek, that's true. I've heard quite a few people say that Hitler should have been allowed to fully carry out The Final Solution and from people that I wouldn't have expected it from. There is sth deep down in people that makes them say that as they have no rational dislike of the Jews. The people that said it don't know the Bible so I don't know where such statements came from. Oh, I was addressing Harry, I saw your post after.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 14:42 #11
Seanus: I don't deny the Holocaust, nor do I attempt to minimise it as I don't have the figures to back up any claims I might choose to make. Sorry Seanus, wasn't meaning to suggest you were.

Mixmoren	Jan 26, 10, 14:43 #12
Thousands of historians and people who simply studied the facts know that Holocaust was an invention. That Hitler burned and killed in Auschwitz and Birkenau thousands of polish, russians and eastern europeans and just accidentally maybe about few hundred jews. The jewish/sionist/israelian machine propagandah is huge, and it is direct censorship against telling the truth

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Jan 26, 10, 14:44 #13

Grzegorz_:

By the way (or rather first of all) Pieronek denied saying these things and there doesn't seem to be anything proving that he did say that.

No he hasn't. His exact words on the subject are "I have not seen the printed text of the interview, which I have given but have not authorized. But if I were to believe in what I hear from the media then it looks as though the final form of the interview was the idea of the journalist that I had spoken to, as the text is full of vague statements.” (http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5254) and he said he had been referring to the use of the Hebrew word Shoah. "In this sense, the Jews invented the name of the Holocaust," he said. "In contrast, genocide, the intention to destroy the Jewish nation, is the copyright of Nazi Germany." (http://news.scotsman.com/world/Jews-use-Holocaust-as-.6012511.jp).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 14:45 #14
And where are those facts may I ask?

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Jan 26, 10, 14:49 #15

Seanus:

And where are those facts may I ask?

You know how dogs can hear whistles that humans can't hear? Well utter morons can see evidence where humans can't. That's why various utter morons deny the holocaust and Bzibzioh claims that most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada where they had to work basically as slaves on farms for two years before they were granted full residency in Canada."

Mixmoren

Jan 26, 10, 14:51 #16

The truth about the Holocaust Hoax

Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax.

Fred A. Leuchter is America's leading specialist on the design and fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers. In 1988, Leuchter scraped samples from the alleged gas chamber walls in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Lublin. Cyanide residue would be clearly evident on all these walls if gassings did occur. To his astonishment, Leuchter found no significant cyanide traces in any one of these rooms.

In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.

The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.

Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war.

Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!

Even The Diary of Anne Frank is a hoax. Portions of the diary were written with a ball point pen. These pens were not in use at the time Anne Frank lived.

It is not denied concentration camps existed. Tragically, many died of typhus or starvation, as often happens in such situations. There is, however, no evidence that any gassings occurred for the reasons of genocide.

Israel continues to receive trillions of dollars worldwide as retribution for Holocaust gassings. Our country has donated more money to Israel than to any other country in the history of the world -- over $35 billion per year, everything included. If not for our extravagantly generous gifts to Israel, every family in America could afford a brand new Mercedes Benz. Surely the American people would be outraged if they realized their hard-earned money is being squandered in these difficult times.

With all this money at stake for Israel, it is easy to comprehend why this Holocaust hoax is so secretly guarded. The Jewish name for Holocaust is "Shoah." In Zionist circles, it is known as "Shoah Business." If nothing else, this unbelievable coverup demonstrates the irrepressible Zionist influence and control of our country. Their only defense against the facts is to cry out "antisemitic," "Skinhead" or "Nazi," whereas the majority of those who question the Holocaust are ordinary citizens...though you would never know it from the media.

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Jan 26, 10, 15:00 #17

Mixmoren:

Fred A. Leuchter is America's leading specialist on the design and fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers.

No he isn't. Leuchter not only lacks an engineering license but has neither an engineering degree nor any other relevant professional certification or recognized credential - his education consists of a BA in history, which he completed in 1964. He is open about having no formal training in toxicology, biology or chemistry.

Mixmoren

Jan 26, 10, 15:11 #18

There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust never existed. Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, (Pan Horizons edition, Pan Books Ltd., London, 1989), indicates that the size of Auschwitz, the most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000 people (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by the Germans at the time of the Russian advance in 1945. Certainly, compared to Spielberg's film, Schindler's List (which Emilie Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full of lies), and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews were systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number. Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have had hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137 people PER HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been exterminated at such small camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly impossible considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and The Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during WW2 (see p.397-400 of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People who would believe the Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated by Hitler must KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY FEW OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WW2.

On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic tells us that 25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In fact, it doesn't even equal 600,000. . . .

It is an interesting fact that the number of so-called persecuted Jews KEEPS INCREASING. Hal Greenwald, program director for the Hillel Foundation at Duke University, a Jewish student group, has been promoting the idea that NINE MILLION JEWS WERE EXTERMINATED IN HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS (New York Times, Nov. 9, 1991, AP). NOW IT'S 9 MILLION AND GROWING. ..JUST LIKE OUR DEBT/TAX MONEY SUPPLY...THE NUMBERS JUST KEEP COMING OUT OF THIN AIR. . .(The Bible Caused Economic and Financial Slavery in the New World Order by Lee Cheney).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 15:17 #19
A cut and paste job, straight from Conspiracies R Us ;) ;) Rather than pulling numbers out of the sky, let's go to what lawyers need, proof. Prove to me that Jews weren't shot in those camps, Mixmoron. Line them up and 137 an hour really isn't that many. Have many Nazis shooting in different parts and you could multiply that number exponentially.

jedenThreads: - Posts: 297 Joined: Nov 30, 09 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 15:25 #20
Holocaust is a fact... But the fact is also that Jews use this tragedy to earn money now. I think taht Pieronek was talking about it. In Auschwitz there were killed not only polish Jews but also Poles, Russians, Gypsies... and other nations...

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Jan 26, 10, 15:28 #21

Mixmoren:

Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, (Pan Horizons edition, Pan Books Ltd., London, 1989), indicates that the size of Auschwitz, the most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000 people

Er, Anne Frank never went to Auschwitz and the last entry in her diary was three days before she was captured by the Germans, so the chances of her diary mentioning anything about Auschwitz are zero.

Seanus:

Line them up and 137 an hour really isn't that many. Have many Nazis shooting in different parts and you could multiply that number exponentially.

Sobibor, just one extermination camp, had three gas chambers which could each hold 160 to 180 people at a time.
And as any Pole will tell you Vasili Mikhailovich Blokhin, chief executioner for the NKVD, personally shot 6,000 Poles at Katyn over a period of 28 days in April 1940.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 16:21 #22
Harry: Anne Frank never went to Auschwitz She did. She was later moved to bergen belsen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_frank#Deportation_and_death

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 16:26 #23
Trevek: She did. She was later moved to bergen belsen. Fair enough, I thought she was at one of the subcamps, not the main camp. Point still remains, how did she manage to write about it in her diary given that the last entry in the diary was before she was caught by the Germans?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 26, 10, 16:37 #24
Oh boy...one has to love the comments on JP :( 214. Polish parents My parents of blessed memory who suffered in Concentration cams and who lived in Poland would tell me the Poles were as bad as the German Nazis. Rabbi Dr. Bernhard Rosenberg - USA

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 17:00 #25
Harry: Point still remains, how did she manage to write about it in her diary given that the last entry in the diary was before she was caught by the Germans? Just had a look, the only mention of the camps is in the foreword and the afterword, not in the diary itself.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 17:03 #26
convex: Just had a look, the only mention of the camps is in the foreword and the afterword, not in the diary itself. You mean that Mixmoren was lying?!?! Who would have thunk it?!

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Jan 26, 10, 17:08 #27
Harry: You mean that Mixmoren was lying?!?! Who would have thunk it?! Yes, I have that much freetime. Now I've got something to read tonight.

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Jan 26, 10, 18:44 #28

Harry:

Point still remains, how did she manage to write about it in her diary given that the last entry in the diary was before she was caught by the Germans?

I read the book recently and don't recall it. If she did it is simply a mention of Auschwitz as one of the concentration camps she has heard of. Even if she does mention it as a small place, this point is dealt with by Laurence Rees in his book "Auschwitz", where he says it was not the major death camp until its later phases. Sobibor and Treblinka were the main ones.

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Jan 26, 10, 18:48 #29

Harry:

I'm sure that this is going to prove hugely helpful in improving Polish-Jewish relations.

and you are worrying about it day and night Harry:D

Holocaust - terminology and all the circumstance's after 1945 are a bit overdone!
I mean that although Jew were primary target of Nazi Germany from about 1940 - 1941 till the end of the war. There were others groups targeted by them, for example Polish ruling class (its my term :), homosexuals, gypsies, And Poles as a nation!
So, to claim that planed extermination of the Jews is unprecedented in the world annals, or that others didn't suffered as much is wrong.
And that kind of "Holocaust" is propaganda!
I think that Jews and Israeli can focus on their own suffering,but others who suffered have the same right.

As for Pieronek, he is an attention seeker and I don't think that anybody pay overmuch attention to what's he is saying!
I didn't heard him first hand but I can gather the he was trying his dismay about propaganda "holocaust" used as a weapon to have its way for lobbing groups.

RogalskiThreads: 9 Posts: 146 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Edited by: Rogalski Jan 26, 10, 19:33 #30
Seanus: the figures may have been fabricated or exagerrated Thanks to the efficiency of the Nazis, each victim had a unique number. That is why the Holocaust Memorial in Washington is able to list the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis. And who 'staged' the Kielce pogroms? The victims themselves? What evidence is there to back this up? Thanks for shedding any light on this.

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