Holocaust was a Jewish invention, says top Polish bishop

Lyzko	Jan 26, 10, 19:40 #31
There'll always be deniers of the truth.....when the truth is just too terrible to comprehend.

Willow

Jan 26, 10, 19:41 #32

Harry:

And as any Pole will tell you Vasili Mikhailovich Blokhin, chief executioner for the NKVD, personally shot 6,000 Poles at Katyn over a period of 28 days in April 1940.

Just as every historian will tell you that Hilter pesonally put six milions of Jews into chambers, one after another.

Harry:

Only a complete moron would fail to agree that Poland as a nation did fail its Jewish citizens between 1945 and 1989.

Why only between 1945 and 1989. We have to say it out loud: Poland have failed its Jewish citizens since 966 and will fail untill 2012 (end of the world lol).

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 19:46 #33
Lyzko: There'll always be deniers of the truth.....when the truth is just too terrible to comprehend. It's hard to deny the truth. The problem is with first establishing what the truth is.

DariuszTelkaThreads: 6 Posts: 338 Joined: Oct 4, 09 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 19:58 #34
Now this is a job..... "Historians are set to publish an online list of some of the estimated six million Polish citizens who died at the hands of Nazi Germany during World War II, a project coordinator said Tuesday." http://ejpress.org/article/35991 Dariusz

f stopThreads: 28 Posts: 2,682 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Jan 26, 10, 20:05 #35
what about satistics? Do they paint a picture? How many Polish people died in the WWII? How many of them were Jewish?

♂

Jan 26, 10, 20:33 #36

f stop:

How many Polish people died in the WWII?
How many of them were Jewish?

We don't know.

There are estimates and there are some serious discrepancies in those.
Another problem is that research of the holocaust (particularly Jewish) is allowed only if it follows the official line. That is how the law works in many countries, notably a few within EU.

In late 1960's researches, armed with what they thought were fairly reliable data, established the number of Jews who died during WW2 to be around 5.5M (give or take). The estimate was largely based on the Soviet statements that the Auschwitz records they got hold of showed about 4 million Jews killed in that camp. With the Perestroyka the Russians made the records public and it turned out that the number of people who died in Auschwitz was around 1.1M, with about 80 to 90% of them Jews. The official line as to the total numbers was not corrected though. So where are the 3 missing millions? Who were they?

A lot of numbers are based on comparing the ESTIMATED Jewish population before WW2 with ESTIMATED Jewish population after WW2. The result thus includes all those who were killed, emigrated, deserted, died of natural causes, switched sides to work for the Soviets, or hid their identity after WW2.

Admittedly, Jewish emigration abroad shortly before and during WW2 was severely limited as anti-semitism in countries such as UK, US or Canada was rampant and the leaders of those countries were not in the least interested in saving Jews. Even some Jewish organizations were not interested in the fate of the Eastern European Jews. The creation of the Jewish state was higher on their agenda and meddling within the German occupied territories would have created too much distraction and financial burden. Still, there was some movement of Jewish populations into other countries.

Also note that Poland before WW2 was quite a bit larger and occupied different territories than after WW2. I'm not sure how one would reliably compare the Jewish populations before and after WW2 and claim to have found the true numbers. Just moving Poland borders would have changed the number of Jews in Poland.

♂

Jan 26, 10, 20:34 #37

DariuszTelka:

Now this is a job.....

"Historians are set to publish an online list of some of the estimated six million Polish citizens who died at the hands of Nazi Germany during World War II, a project coordinator said Tuesday."

http://ejpress.org/article/35991

Dariusz

Good idea...but...

"The list will be posted in coming days at www.stratyosobowe.pl, and will initially contain 1.9 million names. There will also be an appeal to Internet users to provide us with extra details," Polish historian Andrzej Kunert told AFP.

I hope they get the missing 4 million...

♂

Edited by: TheOther Jan 26, 10, 21:01 #38

Bratwurst Boy:

Good idea.

I would first like to hear the reasons why the Polish cultural ministry and the Institute of National Remembrance are so interested to publish this list. Do they want to commercialize and politicize their dead the same way the Israelis did with their Holocaust victims? I'm a bit sceptical here.

Bratwurst Boy:

I hope they get the missing 4 million

What if they don't? Do you really believe that history books would be rewritten?

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 26, 10, 22:21 #39

TheOther:

Do they want to commercialize and politicize their dead the same way the Israelis did with their Holocaust victims? I'm a bit sceptical here.

I fear it's another round in the ongoing fight between Poland and Israel about "who suffered the most in WWII"....

TheOther:

What if they don't? Do you really believe that history books would be rewritten?

Well, at least they could put a real number in instead of always this "allegedly..this" and "allegedly...that" or "allegedly this much, this many" and so on!

The Jews have some decades of research head start...

♂

Jan 26, 10, 22:53 #40

“Undoubtedly, the majority of those who died in the concentration camps were Jews, but also on the list were Poles, Gypsies, Italians and Catholics. So do not steal this tragedy in the name of propaganda.”

Although his statements are inappropriate, I gotta say he has a point here. I've increasingly noticed that schools here in canada teach students that only jews were targetted for extermination. I wouldn't be surprised if nazi germany's genocide will only be remembered for the extermination of jews in the future and not the others like homosexuals, disabled, political prisoners, slavs, roma etc.

Bzibzioh:

They are morons on both sides.

Harry:

Only a complete moron would fail to agree that Poland as a nation did fail its Jewish citizens between 1945 and 1989.

Only a complete moron would fail to agree that Poland's jews failed their non-jewish neighbours when they decided to help the commies hunt down poles after ribbentrop-molotov.
It takes 2 to tango.

Seanus:

A cut and paste job, straight from Conspiracies R Us ;)

lol I think he learned from you:)

Grzegorz_:

And It isn't suprising at all, who posted this stuff here, is It ?

You weren't aware that harry gets up super early every morning to search the internet for stories that make poles/poland look bad? Where have you been??

;)

Bratwurst Boy:

Oh boy...one has to love the comments on JP :(

JP is very one sided. Kinda like Harry.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 23:16 #41
It was a shortcut to thinking ;) ;) I often hear wild evidence from Holocaust deniers. I think there is just too much credible evidence out there to suggest that it never happened.

steveplThreads: 2 Posts: 54 Joined: Dec 8, 09 ♂	Jan 26, 10, 23:23 #42
Mixmoren: a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during WW2 I think our Russian friends may dispute these numbers. Estimate for the soviet union is approx 24 000 000 deaths.

♀

Jan 27, 10, 02:08 #43

Harry:

That's why various utter morons deny the holocaust and Bzibzioh claims that most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada where they had to work basically as slaves on farms for two years before they were granted full residency in Canada."

:))))

"Hi, this is Harry. I can’t come to have an intelligent discourse right now because all I have to offer is my paranoia … but if you leave your name and number, I will get back to you as soon as I come up with further verbal venom that proves my lack of any ability to look at facts and draw my own conclusions. Thanks. BEEP………………."

KapustaThreads: 5 Posts: 120 Joined: Apr 29, 09 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 03:57 #44
I thought kith was a troll but the more I read then it's Bzibzioh for sure. Harry stalking is one clue.

♂

Jan 27, 10, 04:08 #45

Harry:

That's why various utter morons deny the holocaust and Bzibzioh claims that most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada where they had to work basically as slaves on farms for two years before they were granted full residency in Canada."

are you disputing that displaced persons or ex-soldiers in general had to work for 2 years before being granted full residency in the countries in which they landed?

♀

Edited by: Bzibzioh Jan 27, 10, 04:42 #46

King Sobieski:

are you disputing that displaced persons or ex-soldiers in general had to work for 2 years before being granted full residency in the countries in which they landed?

He is saying that it is a total ... wait for it ... lie.

http://oneagleswings0.tripod.com/

Kapusta:

I thought kith was a troll but the more I read then it's Bzibzioh for sure.

And why would I care what YOU think, again?

Kapusta:

Harry stalking is one clue.

Happy hunting!!!

polishcanuckThreads: 10 Posts: 583 Joined: Feb 11, 07 ♂	Edited by: polishcanuck Jan 27, 10, 04:47 #47
Harry: I'm sure that this is going to prove hugely helpful in improving Polish-Jewish relations. Netanjahu seemed quite positive when he met tusk: Netanjahu: W naszych relacjach nie ma zimy http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80271,7497887,Netanjahu__W_na szych_relacjach_nie_ma_zimy.html

KapustaThreads: 5 Posts: 120 Joined: Apr 29, 09 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 04:57 #48
Bzibzioh: Kapusta: I thought kith was a troll but the more I read then it's Bzibzioh for sure. And why would I care what YOU think, again? why? You're a big troll that's why. You thrive on what other people think of you, you need to know what others think of you so you can change it be we already know before it so if lied you can't always change it...You've never proven your worth otherwise.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,648 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 04:59 #49
Kapusta: why? You're a big troll that's why. You've never proven your worth otherwise. You are not even funny. Go bother someone else, kid.

KapustaThreads: 5 Posts: 120 Joined: Apr 29, 09 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 05:11 #50
Lol bzibzioh who calls what she doesn't understand is a kid. Loosing the track B?

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,648 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 05:26 #51
Kapusta: Lol bzibzioh who calls what she doesn't understand is a kid. Could you re-write it in English? And then address it to someone who gives a flying copulation. G-night.

♂

Jan 27, 10, 14:00 #52

King Sobieski:

are you disputing that displaced persons or ex-soldiers in general had to work for 2 years before being granted full residency in the countries in which they landed?

I am very much disputing that Polish ex-servicemen (and their families) were forced to work for two years before being given full residency in the UK. I'll let the Canadian speak about what her country did to displaced persons or ex-soldiers.

Bzibzioh:

He is saying that it is a total ... wait for it ... lie.
http://oneagleswings0.tripod.com/

You are damn right: it is a complete lie. 150,000 Polish servicemen and their families remained in Britain: they were housed, clothed and fed by the British tax payer. Not only do Poles not "one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries" as your pathetic website lies, Operation Polejump was organised in 1947 to bring 34,000 dependents of Polish Armed Forces personal to Britain from all round the world. Britain opened 40 camps for the Polish Resettlement Corps (which gave jobs to some 115,000 Poles) and approximately 265 Polish Resettlement camps. No other immigrant group got a law of its own but Poles got the Polish Resettlement Act of 22 March 1947 which guaranteed equal access to jobs, housing, health care and education and citizenship. Poles had equal access to British jobs, some British people couldn’t get jobs because Poles had them. Some Poles remained supported by the British taxpayer for the rest of their lives!

Here are some precise numbers to shoot down your claim that Poles were shipped to the colonies or Poland: “It is estimated that 3,000 Poles from the PAF were repatriated and another 2,400 emigrated to other countries by July 1948. Some 9,000 PAF personnel stayed in Britain with at least 5,000 finding civilian jobs and had a higher priority than the former landforces. A small number (500) were recruited into the RAF leaving approximately 3,500 in the PARC who were in need of long term care, some never to leave until death.”http://www.polandinexile.com/resettlement.htm

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07 ♂	Jan 27, 10, 14:01 #53
Bzibzioh: He is saying that it is a total ... wait for it ... lie. which bit? only ex soldiers or all polish displaced persons post war? only in canada or all countries that poles migrated to after the war?

♀

Edited by: Bzibzioh Jan 27, 10, 14:08 #54

Harry:

I am very much disputing that Polish ex-servicemen (and their families) were forced to work for two years before being given full residency in the UK.

I never claimed that about UK, Harry, so don't switch gears now.

Harry:

I'll let the Canadian speak about what her country did to displaced persons or ex-soldiers.

No Canadian here ever said that didn't happened. Just you.
What's the word I'm looking for? Ah, yes: liar.

♂

Edited by: Harry Jan 27, 10, 14:08 #55

King Sobieski:

which bit?

only ex soldiers or all polish displaced persons post war?

only in canada or all countries that poles migrated to after the war?

I am saying (and have proved above) that it is a complete lie that "The Polish veterans were given one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries."

Bzibzioh:

I never claimed that about UK, Harry, so don't switch gears now.

You have very much claimed that "most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada where they had to work basically as slaves on farms for two years before they were granted full residency in Canada." and you have done so repeatedly.

Bzibzioh:

No Canadian here ever said that didn't happened. Just you.

Just me and anybody who has the ability to read.

Bzibzioh:

What's the word I'm looking for? Ah, yes: liar.

Yes, you are very much a liar: you claim that "most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada" and the fact show that you are a liar.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,648 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀	Jan 27, 10, 14:20 #56
Harry: Yes, you are very much a liar: you claim that "most of Polish ex-soldiers (lower ranks) [in Britain in 1945] were send to Canada" and the fact show that you are a liar. So much for an intelligent discourse with you. I said some time ago that there is no point talking to you as you are going deny anything that is not fitting your convictions even if proven wrong. And voila ... G-day.

♂

Edited by: Harry Jan 27, 10, 14:29 #57

Bzibzioh:

So much for an intelligent discourse with you. I said some time ago that there is no point talking to you as you are going deny anything that is not fitting your convictions even if proven wrong.

You are right: it is entirely impossible to have intelligent discourse with you. The facts are very very plain: most Polish ex-servicemen stayed in Britain but you continue to insist that most were shipped to Canada as slave labour. Pathetic.

Although I do particularly like how you use a thread about a Polish bishop saying the holocaust was a Jewish invention to lie about Poles being badly treated by the British: real classy even by your standards.

♀

Edited by: Bzibzioh Jan 27, 10, 14:46 #58

Harry:

The facts are very very plain: most Polish ex-servicemen stayed in Britain but you continue to insist that most were shipped to Canada as slave labour. Pathetic.

Yeah, I know by now how you hate that, but that happened.

Harry:

Although I do particularly like how you use a thread about a Polish bishop saying the holocaust was a Jewish invention to lie about Poles being badly treated by the British: real classy even by your standards.

And who brought that topic to this thread? Check post #15. Having a senior moment?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Jan 27, 10, 15:19 #59
Bzibzioh: Yeah, I know by now how you hate that, but that happened. No sweetie, it didn't. And no matter how many times you lie about it, it'll still be a lie.

♂

Jan 27, 10, 16:54 #60

Let's see what Polish WW2 veterans living in Canada say about that farm work:

The Canadian government required these soldiers to sign work contracts as a condition of immigration. Each Polish veteran was obligated to work as a farm labourer for two years, regardless of educational background or work experience. Ironically, many of the veterans were put to work on farms, replacing German prisoners of war who returned home after the fighting ended. To many, especially those labouring on prairie farms, the snow and cold were all too real reminders of their days as slaves in Siberia.
source. (choose the language version and then go to the History link)

I know enough Polish veterans in local Polish Legions. Most went through work on the farms and these were not even farms of their choice. They were assigned to farms as you assigned a slave or a prisoner to a cell. Whether this was akin to slavery depends on individual approaches. To me disallowing free choice is certainly an important element of slavery.

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