PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
 Unanswered | Archives
Poland Information in English Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / News, Politics /

Holocaust was a Jewish invention, says top Polish bishop


page 3 of 18:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  ...  14  15  16  17  18  Next »

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 17:07    #61
z_darius:
Ironically, many of the veterans were put to work on farms, replacing German prisoners of war who returned home after the fighting ended.

Now that is...unexpected...to say at least.

I mean it is somewhat logical as german POWS in the West wer repatriated after a time and able men folk for work was still rare....but still...
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 17:12    #62
From Bzibzioh's link

Poor Treatment in Canada

For many years after the war Polish soldiers, who had fought alongside the British and Canadians during World War Two, were unwelcome in Soviet-dominated Poland. This is not a huge surprise as the Poles, who understood the ugly reality of Soviet Communism, were rabidly anti-Soviet.

What is surprising is how poorly they were treated by the British and Canadian governments after the war. The British, essentially, wanted the Poles to "go away." The Polish veterans were given one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries.

On top of that, they were not allowed free movement, which they may have expected after their service as loyal Allies of the British throughout the war, but instead, they had to submit to a two-year labour contract, mostly on farms, before they were given their freedom. This was in effect, a form of forced labour, the very kind of treatment they had spent the war years fighting against. Furthermore, a stay on a prairie farm during the winter, with hard work, poor shelter and insufficient food, was ironically, almost identical to the conditions they thought they had left behind in Siberia.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 17:20    #63
z_darius:
They were assigned to farms as you assigned a slave or a prisoner to a cell. Whether this was akin to slavery depends on individual approaches. To me disallowing free choice is certainly an important element of slavery.

Firstly, they had decided to leave Britain, they could have stayed in Britain if they wanted to: 150,000 of their former colleagues did. Secondly, they were free to leave Canada anytime they wanted to.


nowy:
The Polish veterans were given one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries.

That is a complete lie. There are several reasons why I say it is a lie that “The Polish veterans were given one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries.”. The first and most obvious is that 150,000 Polish servicemen (from a total of 250,000, i.e. the majority) and their families remained in Britain after the war. Did they not use their one-way tickets or were they not given any tickets? The second would be Operation Polejump, which was organised in 1947 to bring 34,000 dependents of Polish Armed Forces personal to Britain from all round the world. Why bring the dependents to Britain if the veterans had been shipped off? Third would be the 265 Polish Resettlement camps opened by Britain. Who lived there? According to you it wasn’t the Polish veterans. Next would be the 40 camps Britain opened for the Polish Resettlement Corps. You are of course aware of the 115,000 Poles which joined the Polish Resettlement Corps, aren’t you?
NathanThreads: 33
Posts: 1,846
Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 17:49    #64
Mixmoren:
The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed!

Why do you need a hermetically sealed chamber when you use cyanide, of which 10mg is enough to kill an average human.By 1g of cyanide you may potentially kill 100 people! A doctor fell sick just making an autopsy on a cyanide-poisoning victim and the rooms they are working in are well-ventilated. 270 particles of cyanide per 1 million particles of air for 7 minutes is enough to kill a human. And this makes 4000th part.

Mixmoren:
In 1988, Leuchter scraped samples from the alleged gas chamber walls in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Lublin. Cyanide residue would be clearly evident on all these walls if gassings did occur.

Cyanide is highly volatile gas and the reasons to find it in a concrete wall after 44 years seems ridiculously naive.
Lyzko  Jan 27, 10, 17:49    #65
Darius, the "truth" was already established over sixty-years ago! Bishop Pieronek is merely symptomatic of the deep and lingering malaise which has spread across Europe. There's no use telling a denier that they are one. You can never tell a fool they're being a fool, it'll only make 'em mad!
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 17:50    #66
Harry:
That is a complete lie.

Looks more credible what Bzibzioh and Z_darius are saying.

I never knew about it. It''s quite shocking to me.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 17:55    #67
nowy:
Looks more credible what Bzibzioh and Z_darius are saying.

If the Polish veterans were given one-way tickets to Poland or to the Commonwealth countries, how come 150,000 of them (and their families) remained in Britain? Why did Britain open 265 Polish Resettlement camps? Why was operation Polejump organised in 1947 to bring 34,000 dependents of Polish Armed Forces personal to Britain from all round the world?
polbrit  Jan 27, 10, 18:01    #68
Harry:
how come 150,000 of them (and their families) remained in Britain? Why did Britain open 265 Polish Resettlement camps? Why was operation Polejump organised in 1947 to bring 34,000 dependents of Polish Armed Forces personal to Britain from all round the world?

This is the truth. Some wanted to go to Canada & US but couldn't. Those who got to Canada really had to try hard.

Most stayed in UK and settled down well.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 18:04    #69
polbrit:
This is the truth. Some wanted to go to Canada & US but couldn't. Those who got to Canada really had to try hard

Yes, but it's impossible to blame the British for that and so it is unacceptable truth for certain Poles (especially plastic ones) and for Canadians like Bzibzioh.
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 18:10    #70
polbrit:
This is the truth. Some wanted to go to Canada & US but couldn't. Those who got to Canada really had to try hard.

It was unfair of Canada to put those requirements on Polish veterans. I'm sure they were not in prime condition and fit for hard labour (injuries and handicap)
enderThreads: 13
Posts: 528
Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 18:12    #71
I don't think gas chambers ever has existed there were shower rooms. Without doubt many jew died in CONCETRATION CAMPS AFTER shower because of lack of personal higiene. I'm very tolerant so you ALL MAY NOT AGREE WITH THAT THEORY.
polbrit  Jan 27, 10, 18:13    #72
Immigration to Canada was controlled. Most who got there either had family already, some special skill like being a doctor or just got lucky.

Most who got lucky were young, young when they went in the army, no job skills, so farmwork was what was on offer.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 18:13    #73
nowy:
It was unfair of Canada to put those requirements on Polish veterans. I'm sure they were not in prime condition and fit for hard labour (injuries and handicap)

Those who didn't want to sign up for it didn't sign up for it, nobody was forced to move to Canada.
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 18:22    #74
Harry:
Those who didn't want to sign up for it didn't sign up for it, nobody was forced to move to Canada.

I don't know you well, I am just lurking here for 2 days now but you striked me as very unplesent kinda fellow. You have no empathy for underdogs.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 18:33    #75
nowy:
I don't know you well, I am just lurking here for 2 days now but you striked me as very unplesent kinda fellow. You have no empathy for underdogs.

I've got plenty of empathy for them. I just don't like people are helped by people who have no obligation at all to help them and then whine about getting help which isn't the exact help which they wanted.
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 18:51    #76
Harry:
I just don't like people are helped by people who have no obligation at all to help them and then whine about getting help which isn't the exact help which they wanted.

What do you mean by 'no obligation'? The Poles fought for allies - and UK. And how they are whining?that story about Polish ex-soldiers treatment in Canada is news to everybody (well, not Bzibzioh and Zdarius) If they were whiners that would be a well known fact.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 18:59    #77
nowy:
What do you mean by 'no obligation'? The Poles fought for allies - and UK.

And British people fought for Poland. Did that mean that British people were entitled to move to Poland in 1945 and demand that they were provided with everything they wanted?
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:01    #78
Lyzko:
Darius, the "truth" was already established over sixty-years ago! Bishop Pieronek is merely symptomatic of the deep and lingering malaise which has spread across Europe. There's no use telling a denier that they are one.

And what exactly is Pieronek denying?
polbrit:
Immigration to Canada was controlled. Most who got there either had family already, some special skill like being a doctor or just got lucky.

So these doctors were the ones who were sent to work on farms?
What exactly is the special skill doctors have to make them the most suitable farm workers?
Harry:
Firstly, they had decided to leave Britain, they could have stayed in Britain if they wanted to: 150,000 of their former colleagues did. Secondly, they were free to leave Canada anytime they wanted to.

It seems they did, but perhaps the story isn't as simple as you present. There was a lot of social pressure, if not administrative, on Poles remaining in the UK. I found this interesting article on the subject.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:06    #79
z_darius:
It seems they did, but perhaps the story isn't as simple as you present. There was a lot of social pressure, if not administrative, on Poles remaining in the UK. I found this interesting article on the subject.

The whole book is interesting. Although it does make uncomfortable reading for most people.

Out of interest if 250,000 foreigners, say Indians, had been left in Poland in 1945, how do you think Poles would have reacted to that?
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 19:13    #80
Harry:
And British people fought for Poland.

Remaind me: which city in Poland was freed by British soldiers?

Harry:
Did that mean that British people were entitled to move to Poland in 1945 and demand that they were provided with everything they wanted?

Yes
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:19    #81
Harry:
The whole book is interesting. Although it does make uncomfortable reading for most people.

Yes, and on both sides of the argument too.
Again, things are not always black and white.

Harry:
Out of interest if 250,000 foreigners, say Indians, had been left in Poland in 1945, how do you think Poles would have reacted to that?

I could only speculate that if the Indians fought for Poland there would be a sentiment to allow them to stay. You might speculate to the contrary. In either case the speculative hind sight would prove nothing.


I know that some in spite of the mass expulsions many, formerly German, citizens were allowed to stay in Poland. That was also true for about 200K Ukrainians. These were members of nations who fought against Poland in the years immediately preceding the expulsions. This is in contrast to Poles in the UK who were on the same side and fought for the British.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:20    #82
nowy:
Remaind me: which city in Poland was freed by British soldiers?

Remind me which British city was freed by Polish soldiers.


nowy:
Harry:Did that mean that British people were entitled to move to Poland in 1945 and demand that they were provided with everything they wanted?

Yes

Polish law of the time says otherwise.
Foreigner4Threads: 21
Posts: 1,747
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:30    #83
having read the first page quote, all I can say is that I think he makes a valid point. I don't see how someone could honestly take offense to his words.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 19:38    #84
z_darius:
I could only speculate that if the Indians fought for Poland there would be a sentiment to allow them to stay. You might speculate to the contrary.

Or we could look at what happened to the largest group in Poland of what Poles saw as foreigners: Jews. Or then again, perhaps not.
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 19:57    #85
Harry:
Or we could look at what happened to the largest group in Poland of what Poles saw as foreigners: Jews. Or then again, perhaps not.

I can see now what is your MO; when losing argument or support on one topic - you provoke another topic.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 20:00    #86
nowy:
I can see now what is your MO; when losing argument or support on one topic - you provoke another topic.

I'm still waiting for you to name the British cities which were freed by Polish soldiers and to explain why British people were not allowed by Polish law to move to Poland in 1945 and insist they were given everything they wanted.
nowy  Jan 27, 10, 20:11    #87
Harry:
I'm still waiting for you to name the British cities which were freed by Polish soldiers

Except I never claimed that Polish soldiers freed any UK city. You on the other hand claimed that Brits fought for Poland. so where is MY anwser? You really think you are so clever.

Harry:
to explain why British people were not allowed by Polish law to move to Poland in 1945 and insist they were given everything they wanted.

You'd have to ask Mr. Churchill i guess. Or Mr. Stalin.
z_dariusThreads: 22
Posts: 5,091
Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 20:18    #88
Harry:
Or we could look at what happened to the largest group in Poland of what Poles saw as foreigners: Jews. Or then again, perhaps not.

This is like saying that it won't rain today because it didn't rain last Wednesday.

Again, things are not so simple and how you look at them will largely depend on your agenda.

First, most Jews did consider themselves as foreigners for some 1000 years of the Jewish history in Poland, so it would be rude for Poles to consider them otherwise. They lived as they wanted and various Jewish historians refer to the times as their Golden Age. Nation within nation was the Jewish choice. They could have chosen to integrate instead, and fairly good rewards awaited those who did.

Jews came to Poland for reasons known to all. They were escaping persecution by all those westerly friends of theirs. They did not come to Poland because they longed for persecution. They were not stupid. For hundreds of years Jews enjoyed legal status envied by a majority of native Poles. The Statute of Kalisz, which gave Jews rights unprecedented in Europe for hundreds of years, lasted until the 3rd Partition of Poland (loss of Poland's independence). The respective invading powers abolished the Polish laws.

Over 120 years of foreign (German and Russian) influence changed a lot, and antisemitism in Poland began to be similar to that of Western Europe, except that Poland hosted many more Jews than the rest of Europe combined. These were the descendants of the Jews that the likes of Spain or England did not tolerate. There were obviously some harsh display of antisemitism in Poland and that was no different than pogroms in Britain of Spain. In the end the British and the Spanish fought very fiercely against anti-semitism in their own countries. By getting rid of Jews. In that they almost made the Nazis look like they fought antisemitism too - by trying to eliminate Jews.

The Western antisemitism continued and was pretty shocking in the weeks and months leading to WW2, the blatant refusal to admit the poor Jewish should who tried to escape Nazi Germany being just one example.

Still, Jews in the Interbellum enjoyed more rights in Poland than they did in countries such as the US where they had to wait till late 1960's to finally be allowed to study in the American academia without any restrictions. They never had that issue in Poland.

The very brief outline is just a little reminder about how the Jew loving Westerners should perhaps look back into their own relations with Jews. Otherwise this outline has fairly little to do with the topic of Bishop Pieronek. It is merely a response to the statements that have equally little to do with whether Poles would have allowed Indians to stay or not. In that regards there is no right or wrong answer. Again, a rain on a Thursday doesn't ensure a rain on any Thursday.
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,189
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: jonni  Jan 27, 10, 20:35    #89
nowy:
ou on the other hand claimed that Brits fought for Poland. so where is MY anwser?

Didn't you talk about this before with another username? There was somebody making the same nonsensical argument a while ago.

If you want to know about British soldiers fighting in Poland, check out the various war cemeteries, memorials etc. It was only the British who cared. No other country in Europe and certainly not the US.
HarryThreads: 59
Posts: 7,996
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 27, 10, 20:43    #90
z_darius:
The Western antisemitism continued and was pretty shocking in the weeks and months leading to WW2, the blatant refusal to admit the poor Jewish should who tried to escape Nazi Germany being just one example.

Remind me what the Polish reaction to 12,000 Poles being expelled from Germany on 28 October 1938. Then tell me how many citizens of western nations were not allowed to live in their own nations.


z_darius:
Still, Jews in the Interbellum enjoyed more rights in Poland than they did in countries such as the US where they had to wait till late 1960's to finally be allowed to study in the American academia without any restrictions. They never had that issue in Poland.

Good to see you back to your usual form as regards to the truth. Perhaps you might like to look at the Polish numerus clausus law from 1923.

page 3 of 18:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  ...  14  15  16  17  18  Next »

Home / News, Politics / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:


This thread is closed. You may not post a reply.
Young Israels not shown Poland's Jewish community  The Internet totally uncontrolled in Poland?


Random: Polish Comedy - Films recommendations?

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.



Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 07:20 / Feb 10

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising
© 2005-12 PolishForums.com