Hungary's economy 'very grave' Poland may be next

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Jun 5, 10, 08:20 #1

Hungary's economy is in a ''very grave situation,'' a government official said, adding to concern about Europe's sovereign debt crisis, weakening the euro and pushing the forint to a 12-month low.

''It's clear that the economy is in a very grave situation,'' Peter Szijjarto, spokesman for Prime Minister Viktor Orban, said today in Budapest. ''I don't think it's an exaggeration at all'' to talk about a default.

The comments sparked concern that Europe's debt crisis would spread to eastern Europe. European governments crafted a 750 billion-euro ($1.08 trillion) financial backstop for the euro area last month after Greece's widening budget deficit threatened to shatter confidence in the single currency.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aaG5dpys2XVw&pos=2

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 09:04 #2
Poland should bail out Hungary...they are chums after all! nods

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Jun 5, 10, 09:12 #3

Hungary has been an easy target over the years for globalist bankers. It is a country which underwent a major transformation from communism to capitalism but emerged for the worse, largely due to mismanagement of the change. Poland also had a really bumpy ride after the collapse of communism, with overambitious economic packages stretching the boundaries of credibility and pragmatism.

However, Poland well and truly turned the page. Successive governments really worked on attracting inward investment through favourable conditions. They also rejected some of the 'slippery slope' offers put forward by international agencies like the IMF (just 29/03/10) and World Bank. Regrettably, the Smolensk tragedy robbed us of a valiant, sometimes defiant, fighter in Sławomir Skrzypczyk. PO are putting in place more yes men and it is this that could potentially undo Poland somewhere down the line.

Nonetheless, Poland is sailing in healthy waters and simply must see the rainclouds overhead when they present themselves. The ball, as they say, is in their court (for now anyway).

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: richasis Jun 5, 10, 09:26 #4
Seanus: Regrettably, the Smolensk tragedy robbed us of a valiant, sometimes defiant, fighter in Sławomir Skrzypczyk. PO are putting in place more yes men and it is this that could potentially undo Poland somewhere down the line. I agree - and this is my fear, as well. The Bankster Gangsters won't overlook this newfound opportunity to exploit (and potentially undo) Poland.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 09:32 #5
I haven't heard of his replacement, Andrzej sth or other. He was taken in on an interim basis but you can tell they are going to hand pick his long-term successor. I fear that PO are just a bunch of globalist yes men and Komorowski will spearhead this.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 09:45 #6
So, will Poland bail out their hungarian chums or not?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 09:55 #7
Why should they? They dug their own hole by going with sleazy deals, that's their problem. I'm going to sound very Polish here but Poland was put under 43 years of communism and has done a very good job in moving on in an economic sense. Let's not forget that it was Germany that entered the ECSC, then the EEC. Why? Need we be reminded?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 5, 10, 09:55 #8
Bratwurst Boy: So, will Poland bail out their hungarian chums or not? I sense a hint of jealousy?:))))

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 5, 10, 09:58 #9
Sokrates: I sense a hint of jealousy?:)))) What do you think!!! :) After all this love shmaltz between Poles and Hungarians I had to bear since coming to this board I now want to see facts! Heh:)

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:11 #10
Bratwurst Boy: So, will Poland bail out their hungarian chums or not? will germany bail out PL afterwards? i think people are mislead that the Polish economy is fine.. it's been barely hanging by a thread and mainly because of the EU funds injection/investment..

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:18 #11
Barely hanging by a thread? Nonsense! There was a downturn after the peak year of 2007 but check GUS stats. Yes, there may be distorting factors which make the true picture askew but Poland is faring pretty well, especially at a time when many other economies are faltering badly.

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Jun 5, 10, 10:19 #12

Seanus

For a long time time I haven't read such a lot of nonsense in a single post of yours. One sentence contradicts another which contradicts the next one following it.

Seanus:

Hungary has been an easy target over the years for globalist bankers.

Hungary has been pursuing disastrous economic policy for the past several years (serious riots took place in Budapest against the former socialist governments). Globalist bankers and globalist speculators are really good in such cases as they act as useful predators against stupid people in government who think they know things better whereas they are simply as ignorant as they are populist. What I'm saying about Hungary, I'm also saying about the naive buraucrats in Brussels who pretend to control the common currency, while tending to believe whatever financial statements are submitted to them by other fools (the wisest fools in Greece and Hungary against the wisest fools in the European Union).

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:20 #13
polish economy is flat at best and only because of EU funds being injected into it over the last number of years.. it definitely is nowhere to fairing well or whatever you said..

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 5, 10, 10:24 #14
plk123: polish economy is flat at best and only because of EU funds being injected into it over the last number of years.. it definitely is nowhere to fairing well or whatever you said.. I really don't think so... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland Interesting tidbit...around 1/3 of the whole of Polands trade (import AND export) is with Germany!

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 Jun 5, 10, 10:30 #15
Bratwurst Boy: I really don't think so... pretty much proves my point.. it was great until 07.. pretty flat ever since with major issues still not worked out.. Bratwurst Boy: 1/3 of the whole of Polands trade (import AND export) is with Germany! which is terrible really.. lack of diversification is not a good sign..

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:32 #16
Spoil sport!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:33 #17
Ziemowit, you say that but you don't say why. Please point me to those 'contradictions' and I'll try and explain them. Hungary has been pursuing disastrous economic policy, I agree. Yes, there are predators who can see fertile ground for stepping in, I agree. Yes, bureaucrats think they have a handle on the situation but they are small fry, I agree. So, what's your point?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:38 #18
Bratwurst Boy: Spoil sport! lol.. but i actually think that trading with germany is a very good thing in more ways then one,..

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Jun 5, 10, 10:41 #19

Bratwurst Boy:

What do you think!!! :)
After all this love shmaltz between Poles and Hungarians I had to bear since coming to this board I now want to see facts!

Poland will probably help them mind you its not going to be substantial, our mutual friendship with Hungarians notwithstanding we dont have much to give.

plk123:

polish economy is flat at best and only because of EU funds being injected into it over the last number of years.. it definitely is nowhere to fairing well or whatever you said..

It grew 3% this year.

plk123:

i think people are mislead that the Polish economy is fine..

Polish economy is fine, it just doesnt have much excess funds, especially with the flood wrecking large patches of the country.

plk123:

which is terrible really.. lack of diversification is not a good sign..

Its natural actually, Poland is the largest economy in the region and the only natural partner is Germany, other countries are too small, too poor or too far.

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Jun 5, 10, 10:42 #20

Countries that are having economic problem are mired in debt and have a deficit large due to past economic growth that was furled by debt.

Poland doesn't have a large amount of debt; personal, business or sovereign.

Poland is also possesses good competitiveness with its own (weak) currency, unlike Spain, Portugal and Greece for instance, which need at least a 20% devaluation (impossible with the Euro) or deflation.

So Poland won't be next. bolek, you title is ******** - Poland isn't even mentioned in the article.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 5, 10, 10:43 #21
Trading with Germany has almost always been a good thing. Britain would agree. They were loathe to go to war with Germany as they had a sterling trade partnership around that time, many mutual ties.

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Jun 5, 10, 10:47 #22

My point has always been that Poland for many people is basically living on the breadline. A large section of the population living on 2 euro an hour and the price of food not much cheaper than the west.Can things get much worse??
The policy of the government since 1989(was do as the west says) is that that old worn out Milton Friedman philosophy of privitisation and anything away from this agenda is seen as not going forward. The EU have evolved into nothing more than a security guard for the free market deconstuctionist. Poland with its policy of mass privitisation continued and led by Donald and the modern right will leave the country unprotected to the harsh realaties sweeping the world at the moment, but of course Donald and Co will be well rewarded financially with brown envelope payments. Polands future will be that of a country with no government.

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Jun 5, 10, 10:51 #23

Sokrates:

It grew 3% this year.

i've seen numbers that are more like 1% but either way.. pretty flat..

Sokrates:

Polish economy is fine, it just doesnt have much excess funds, especially with the flood wrecking large patches of the country.

that is part of the reason i don't say PL ecomoy is just fine.. skating on thin ice...

Sokrates:

Its natural actually, Poland is the largest economy in the region and the only natural partner is Germany, other countries are too small, too poor or too far.

that's a weak excuse.. PL needs to trade with other countries whether small or large or far away... putting that many chips in one economy isn't sound.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jun 5, 10, 10:54 #24

plk123:

i've seen numbers that are more like 1% but either way.. pretty flat..

It grew 3% according to official reports, even if it'd grew 1% thats not flat.

plk123:

that is part of the reason i don't say PL ecomoy is just fine.. skating on thin ice...

Our economy is doing fine, thats not the same thing as being fine (strong, with good reserves etc).

plk123:

that's a weak excuse.. PL needs to trade with other countries whether small or large or far away... putting that many chips in one economy isn't sound.

Whom do you propose to trade with and what should we buy/sell from them to make a profit?

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Jun 5, 10, 10:57 #25

Sokrates:

It grew 3% according to official reports, even if it'd grew 1% thats not flat.

yeah it is.. i consider it pretty flat.. 5 or 8 or 10% isn't flat but 1 or 3.. pretty much is.

Sokrates:

Whom do you propose to trade with and what should we buy/sell from them to make a profit?

all the neighbours.. and whatever they may need.. i haven't done any market research.. someone in PL better be,, putting 1/3 of the economy dependent on the Germans isn't really that smart.. you have to diversify..

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Jun 5, 10, 11:05 #26

milky:

A large section of the population

How many? what "large section" have you a number?

milky:

the price of food not much cheaper than the west.

Absolute rubbish, you don't have a clue what is going on here.

milky:

Can things get much worse??

I am sure a friend of yours will tell you something and you will post it on here from Ireland, international chinese whispers seems to be all you really do.

milky:

The policy of the government since 1989(was do as the west says) is that that old worn out Milton Friedman philosophy of privitisation and anything away from this agenda is seen as not going forward.

They are not privatising everything. In certain sectors they had to privatise to make them profitable because the old communist way, hundreds of people were employed unnecessarily.
Some big companies, like 'Orlen' are run like private companies but the government has 51% of it.

milky:

Poland with its policy of mass privitisation continued and led by Donald and the modern right will leave the country unprotected to the harsh realaties sweeping the world at the moment,

So you are saying that Poland is going the way other countries are going? perhaps you should clean up your own mess? oh yeah that's right, you're in Ireland, you can't.

milky:

rewarded financially with brown envelope payments.

Have you any proof of Tusk taking bribes, any proof what-so-ever?

milky:

Polands future will be that of a country with no government.

Nonsense.

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Edited by: MareGaea Jun 5, 10, 11:11 #27

Seanus:

They were loathe to go to war with Germany as they had a sterling trade partnership around that time, many mutual ties.

True, and tensions in 1914 between Britain and Germany were easing up, but then of course nationalistic ressentiments start screwing things up.

plk123:

which is terrible really.. lack of diversification is not a good sign..

Trading with Germany for such a big part has its good sides and its bad sides. Germany has nearly always been the strongest economy within Europe and when it fares well, countries trading with it fare well too. When German economy goes down, other economies go down too. Diversification in trade could be welcomed but in practice it's not always executable: NL, for example, trades with all its surroundig countries, however, 80 per cent of their export goes to Germany. If Germany goes down, NL goes down because the remainder of the trade is not big enough to carry the loss of Germany as a trading partner. Although the consequences of Germany going down would be devastating for Poland, I don't think it means they would go down with Germany as well, unlike NL; if 1/3 of the Polish trade is with Germany, that leaves 2/3 of the trade with other countries, I'd say that is a big enough part to survive a downfall of Germany. So it's not really a bad thing imo.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

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Jun 5, 10, 11:18 #28

Seanny, milky has a point. I have seen prices soar in recent years. Back in late 2004 and early 2005, it was a joy for me to go to supermarkets and do a huge food shop for under 100PLN. Prices are still a fair way off of Britain, for example, but they are moving in that direction and have moved more than I'd like.

Anyway, this is about Hungary and I see Ziemowit hasn't tried to show any inconsistencies. Hungary underwent a radical transformation and is now the globalists dream. Clever economists get a case study in which to see how capitalism and communism manifest themselves. We are seeing this weird mix in modern times. Bankers, well, it's just easy prey for them.

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Edited by: SeanBM Jun 5, 10, 11:22 #29

Seanus:

milky has a point.

Seanus:

Prices are still a fair way off of Britain, for example, but they are moving in that direction and have moved more than I'd like.

So Milky doesn't have a point, as "the price of food not much cheaper than the west." is simply not true.

You Seanus could also compare the employment figures, average wage and standard of living to when it was more preferable for you, back in 2004, and it would also tell you that things have got better here in Poland for most.

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Edited by: milky Jun 5, 10, 11:30 #30

SeanBM:

So you are saying that Poland is going the way other countries are going? perhaps you should clean up your own mess? oh yeah that's right, you're in Ireland, you can't.

I think you might need to get some anger managment classes. I hear its a good idea to count to ten but in your case why not try counting to a billion and take deep breaths and try not to think of the word statistic, and im sure by then your beloved free market will have sorted it all out.
Or maybe just a good strong cup of coffee
http://www.accesscounselling.ie/index.php/Anger-Management-Counselling .html?gclid=CLnV

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