Jews influence Polish schoolbooks?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Jun 26, 11, 19:26 #1
Jewish and German interest groups are exetring undue influence on the content of history textbooks used in Polish schools. Agree? Disagree? No comment?

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jun 26, 11, 20:18 #2
I thought that the polish episcopate, radio marija and ipn define these days what is Polish history?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,397 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jun 26, 11, 20:46 #3
Polonius3: Jewish and German interest groups are exetring undue influence on the content of history textbooks used in Polish schools. Every day I see Germans and Jews in my school who argue with history teachers over the content of Polish textbooks. It is really tiring. Someone should put a stop to it. It is holidays and they keep coming. :):):):):):)

JozefKPilsudskiThreads: 3 Posts: 18 Joined: Jun 24, 11 ♂	Jun 26, 11, 21:14 #4
no, just no. The Jews aren't evil and the Germans couldn't care less about us. Just accept it!

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Jun 26, 11, 21:25 #5
Links in Polish are being removed.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 26, 11, 21:33 #6
Yeah, we have Jewish and German commissions in our school and they walk around with menacing uniforms and make sure the figures I quote are right. They make me read out the wonders of their cultures and don't stop looking at me til I do. It can be disconcerting but they need their account to be drummed into schoolkids here.

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 871 Joined: Jul 27, 08 ♂	Edited by: yehudi Jun 27, 11, 17:36 #7
Polonius3: Jewish and German interest groups are exetring undue influence on the content of history textbooks used in Polish schools. Agree? Disagree? No comment? Do you never get tired of bringing up fictitious non-issues involving Jews? How about this for a thread: "Poles have undue influence on the price of pickles in Patagonia. Agree? Disagree? No comment?

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Jun 27, 11, 17:53 #8

Have you read the article? There are mixed Polish-Israeli commissions whose demands, according to the article, are meekly accepted by the Polish Education Ministry. The point is that Israeli input influences the content of Polish textbooks but Polish input is not inlcuded in Israeli textbooks. Whether this is true or not I do not know so I was hoping someone more in the know could clue us in.
For true balance the textbooks of both countreis should try to shopw a compelte pictrue of Polish-Jewish relations: both the anti-Jewish activities of Poles before, during and after the war as well as anti-Polish ones by Jews in Poland.
Unfortuantely, we usually end up with Poles denying or downplaying Polish anti-Semitism, ghetto benches, war-time szmalcownicy and Jews denying or downplaying anti-Polish pro-Soviet activities including the death and imprisonment of thousands of Polish freedom-fighters.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 17:59 #9
Polonius3: whose demands, according to the article, are meekly accepted by the Polish Education Ministry Or accepted as sensible and practical.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 18:22 #10
Isn't reconcilaition supposed to be reciprocal? If Israelis can tell Poles to teach their youngsters only the thins Jews find convenient, expediernt and favourable to them, but Poles have no such opportuntiy to influence Israeli textbooks, how can that be called reciprocity? Maybe that's the Jewish take on reciprocity, because after all no-one need bother about mere Goyim.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 18:30 #11
Polonius3: If Israelis can tell Poles to teach their youngsters only the thins Jews find convenient, expediernt and favourable to them, Who says they are? Polonius3: Poles have no such opportuntiy to influence Israeli textbooks You'd be surprised how many Israelis are also Poles.

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Edited by: Marynka11 Jun 27, 11, 18:37 #12

Polonius3:

Jewish and German interest groups are exetring undue influence on the content of history textbooks used in Polish schools. Agree? Disagree? No comment?

The thread doesn't make much sense without the link, however, here is my take: no it's not fair for Jews or German to tell Polish Educators how to teach history and what to teach. The only fair approach would be to have Polish, German and Jews sit at one table and write a book, that would be used in the three countries. That could maybe take take the hooray approach to each national history and present the events from broader perspective. I would also invite Russians to the table.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 18:38 #13
Those Jews are likely Polish Jews so where's the problem? They are still Polish.

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Jun 27, 11, 18:53 #14

Marynka11:

The only fair approach would be to have Polish, German and Jews sit at one table and write a book, that would be used in the three countries. That could maybe take take the hooray approach to each national history and present the events from broader perspective. I would also invite Russians to the table.

If every nation would stop trying to make themselves look like the good guy all the time maybe we would have the same textbooks. If the whole entire truth was told however painful old grudges might slowly vanish. Jews write good things about Poles and Poland also from inviting their people to visit beautiful Krakow (New York Times) to a Jewish woman admitting many Poles helped her people during the Holocaust (The Miami Herald) to things like this http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/07/jewish-renaissance-poland

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 19:05 #15
Anit-Semitism is defintiely declining but is Jewish anti-Polonism and anti-Goyism as well?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 19:09 #16
It's not definitely declining at all. Why are you asking questions that can't be answered? How would anybody here actually know that? To my knowledge, nobody here works in the 'Are you against non-Jews?' census business in Israel. Why can't people just accept that it just isn't that big of a deal here??? Go and talk about the unevenness of pavements, it's more interesting.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 19:42 #17
Seanus: Yeah, we have Jewish and German commissions in our school and they walk around with menacing uniforms and make sure the figures I quote are right. They make me read out the wonders of their cultures and don't stop looking at me til I do. It can be disconcerting but they need their account to be drummed into schoolkids here. You're being ironic right? lol...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 19:55 #18
Now why would I want to do that? ;)

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 20:08 #19
Seanus: Now why would I want to do that? ;) No clue :(

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 20:13 #20
That's your standard answer to my easy questions ;) So, Star of David, what brings you to this thread?

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Jun 27, 11, 20:17 #21
Seanus: That's your standard answer to my easy questions ;) So, Star of David, what brings you to this thread? I'm just a dumb American Polack you know ;)

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Jun 29, 11, 01:34 #22

"I Can Still See Their Faces" is a project created by Golda Tencer, a Polish actress with Jewish origins. Two rows of old tenement houses in the center of Warsaw, Poland, dating from 1880-1900, show what Warsaw probably looked like before the war and ultimate destruction of the city. Tencer appealed for people to send in photographs of Polish Jews for the exhibition.
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Jewish+woman+explores+family+past+E astern+Europe/5012062/story.html

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jun 29, 11, 07:48 #23
pgtx: Links in Polish are being removed. This is new. Why don't you add this new rule to the forum rules so everyone understands that unless something is not in English, it is not news and not worth discussing. Why don't you delete this thread now since you ruined the OP. Better yet, let's rename the forum English Forums and be done with it.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Jun 29, 11, 10:12 #24
1jola: This is new. the rule is: a link in Polish may be posted, if the poster provides a summary of the text in english. this rule has always been in place.

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Jun 29, 11, 13:10 #25

Polonius3:

but is Jewish anti-Polonism and anti-Goyism as well?

I hate to bust your bubble, but Poles and Poland are not high on the agenda here so it's ludicrous to talk about anti-Polonism in Israel. If I had the urge to taunt a Pole I wouldn't even know where to find one here.
The main problem, if there is one, is that most Israelis only know about Poland where it relates to our recent history, which means the holocaust. In that context some Israelis have a simplistic approach to the subject : you were either with us or against us. Let's face it, some Poles were against us and that leaves a lasting impression. Poles (of the WWII generation) are sometimes confused with other nations, like Lithuanians, Hungarians and Ukrainians, for example, who actually did participate in murdering jews.

If you think that's unjustified and you want to influence the curriculum in our schools, be my guest. Write to the Israeli Ministry of Education and send your ideas. Since today's Poland is pretty friendly with Israel, we have no interest in perpetuating bad feelings from the past. If you think you have what to say, say it constructively to the right address. But in this forum, it comes off as just another attempt at badmouthing Jews.

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Jun 29, 11, 13:47 #26

yehudi:

Poles (of the WWII generation) are sometimes confused with other nations, like Lithuanians, Hungarians and Ukrainians, for example, who actually did participate in murdering jews.

Er, some Poles did actually participate in murdering Jews. Far fewer than the number of Ukrainians and Lithuanians, but a few Poles did play an active role in the holocaust. Denying that fact does nobody any favours.

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Jun 29, 11, 14:44 #27

Badmouthing is the last thing on my mind. I would like to achieve some semblance of a balacned view of Polish-Jewish relations, but it seems many of those engaged in such a quest tend to be extremely partisan. I know that exact figures have been obliterated by the steamrollers of history, but is it possible to at least achieve a rough estimate of what proportion of Polish society in WW2 saved or aided Jews, what % were szmalcownicy and szabrownicy, and what% were not involved one way or the other and concerend only with their own survival. (In such dire times, most people of any nationality worry mainly abnout their own families.)
If Poles took part in the German-inspired Jedwabne or Kielce pogrom, there's no sense trying to deny it. Those who have been identified should be fully exposed for posterity. And all the facts surrounding those events should be tabled and openly disucussed.
And similary, what % of Jews in Soviet-annexed eastern Poland saved or aided Poles (until the Nazis invaded), what % fingered Poles to the NKVD and otherwise collaborated against their Polish neighbours with the Soviet occupation authorities and what % were not involved one way or the other.
Just as the regime's anti-Semtic purge of 1968 should not be swept under the rug, so too the Jewish Sovietisers of post-war Poland should be named and exposed. Polish textbooks now inform about the March '68 events, Kielce and Jedwabne, but do Israeli textbooks tell school kids who Berman, Fejgin, Romkowski, Brystygier, Zambrowski, Mietkowski, Różański, Świetlik, Minc, Borejsza, Helena Michnik (Polish textbook sovietiser) et al. were and the nefarious role they played in post-war Poland?

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Jun 29, 11, 15:11 #28

yehudi:

I hate to bust your bubble, but Poles and Poland are not high on the agenda here so it's ludicrous to talk about anti-Polonism in Israel.

I met an Israeli girl here some time back, I actually asked her why do you people hate us? she said 'Jews don't hate Poles, if they do it's because they think Poles hate them first'.

yehudi:

Poles (of the WWII generation) are sometimes confused with other nations, like Lithuanians, Hungarians and Ukrainians, for example, who actually did participate in murdering jews.

I'm glad you make that distinction. People like the ones taking the young IAF conscripts on trips to Poland should make that clear to them that most Poles didn't hurt Jews (unlike some of our neighbors) and was the nation who saved the most of them.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 29, 11, 15:28 #29
That's about right, Penn. Israelis have more serious things to think about. Revisionist historians are everywhere so why should Jews be singled out here?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 29, 11, 15:57 #30
Polonius3: If Poles took part in the German-inspired Jedwabne or Kielce pogrom, there's no sense trying to deny it. The fact that you even use the word 'if' in connection with Polish involvement Jedwabne and Kielce shows that history to you is something to lie about.

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