Kaczynski accused of slurring Silesian minority

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Apr 4, 11, 22:39 #1
The Law and Justice document, “A Report on the State of the Republic”, has angered many for stating that “being a Silesian is simply a way to cut ties with [Polish identity] and indeed could be a way to camouflage German [identity].” http://www.thenews.pl/national/?id=152664

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Apr 4, 11, 22:42 #2

PennBoy:

The Law and Justice document, “A Report on the State of the Republic”, has angered many for stating that “being a Silesian is simply a way to cut ties with [Polish identity] and indeed could be a way to camouflage German [identity].”

******* idiot.

There's nothing more to say. He's just alienated even more potential voters - all in a pathetic attempt to try and score some cheap political points over Tusk.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Apr 4, 11, 22:44 #3
PennBoy: and indeed could be a way to camouflage German [identity] in democratic society, people shouldn't have to worry about having to camouflage any ethnic identity to begin with.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Apr 4, 11, 22:53 #4
I often think he's wanting to lose the upcoming election in convincing enough style so that he can have an excuse for resigning from public life. I can't think that this rhetoric appeals to any but a tiny fraction of voters and it helps mobilize those against the PiS strategy of attack anyone and everyone at every opportunity in the hope of scoring a few points.

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Edited by: Torq Apr 4, 11, 22:56 #5

PennBoy:

“being a Silesian is simply a way to cut ties with [Polish identity] and indeed could be a way to camouflage
German [identity].”

What a complete and utter bullc*ap by Kaczynski. What's going on with this man recently?

Silesians were always good Poles - they started uprisings for Poland, shed their blood for us,
gave Poland thousands of great artists, engineers and sportsmen, their industry was a mainstay
of Polish economy for decades, and how does Kaczyński repay them? How does he thank the
descendants of Silesian insurgents, who were killed and persecuted, for their love of Poland,
by Prussians and then by the nazis? He calls them "Germans", and accuses them indirectly
of being a German 5th column? That is a disgrace!

Silesians - don't mind this little man. We - real Poles, we know what you did for Poland and we will
always cosider you our brothers. Let me just remind every idiot who would like to accuse Silesians
of pro-German sympathies, the poem that Silesian children know by heart:

Jestem śląskie dziecko,
Boże tobie chwała,
Śląska nasza ziemia.
Mnie tu wychowała.

I od śląskiej matki
Do niej miłość brałem,
Od ojca Ślązaka
Przykład otrzymałem

Jestem śląskie dziecko,
Rodu słowiańskiego
Idę wszędzie śmiało,
Nie boję się złego...

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Apr 4, 11, 23:05 #6

delphiandomine:

He's just alienated even more potential voters - all in a pathetic attempt to try and score some cheap political points over Tusk.

Slow down, doesn't the current government have only a 30 some percent approval rating right now?, aren't prices in stores highest since communist times? Maybe it is a cheap shot at trying to win voters but things aren't exactly peachy in Poland these days. As for Silesians they don't even know who they are exactly. Kaczynski's pointing out that maybe the German minority is posing as Silesians to unite them in order for the region to break away from Poland.

alexw68

Apr 4, 11, 23:07 #7

Torq:

What's going on with this man recently?

Interesting choice of adverb.

All things considered, it's a surprise he hasn't kicked off at Silesians/Kashubs/Górale a long, long time before now. But then again, those unwashed plebs who shop at Biedronka - sometimes, a guy's gotta say what a guy's gotta say.

For God's sake, someone take this poor, bereaved wreck of a man and his equally poor, bereaved, emaciated and betrayed wreck of a niece off the public radar for their own sakes.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Apr 4, 11, 23:16 #8
Torq: Silesians were always good Poles what part of Silesia are you talking about?

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Apr 4, 11, 23:18 #9

PennBoy:

As for Silesians they don't even know who they are exactly.

Just out of curiosity - how many Silesians do you know personally, and how do you justify
making such a ridiculous statement?

PennBoy:

Kaczynski's pointing out that maybe the German minority is posing as Silesians to unite them in order
for the region to break away from Poland.

German minority is microscopically small in Upper Silesia. They are most numerous in Województwo
Opolskie, and they enjoy all the rights and privileges of a minority there, but even there they don't
even mention "breaking away from Poland." Nobody is mentioning that actually - it's only Kaczyński's
paranoia and scaremongering, by which he wants to win the votes of the less educated, who don't
know Polish/Silesian history.

Most Silesians don't even want autonomy, and the overwhelming majority of them declared Polish
nationality in the last census (only 173 thousand, out of 4.6 million of Silesian Vojvodship
inhabitants, declared Silesian nationality). Even if two times as many Silesians declare Silesian
nationality this year, it will still be a small minority.

BUT - if one day, the majority of inhabitants of Silesia vote for the autonomy of the region, then
I can't see why we shouldn't allow them to have it. They had their autonomy in Poland before WW2,
and nobody was talking about "breaking away". Why shouldn't Poland be a federal country with more
autonomous regions? It works well for Germany, and I don't hear about Baden-Württemberg or
Nordrhein-Westfalen trying to "break away from Germany".

I tell you what is harmful for Poland - it's such statements as the one Kaczyński made, which are
insulting to Silesians and, frankly, stupid.

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Apr 4, 11, 23:28 #10

Torq:

Just out of curiosity - how many Silesians do you know personally, and how do you justify
making such a ridiculous statement?

I know at least a few of them.

Torq:

German minority is microscopically small in Upper Silesia. They are most numerous in Województwo
Opolskie, and they enjoy all the rights and privileges of a minority there, but even there they don't
even mention "breaking away from Poland."

I know, I'm just saying that because they're too small Kaczynski was implying they wanna use the Silesians to gain support and break away. I know most Silesians wanna be part of Poland.

Torq:

I tell you what is harmful for Poland - it's such statements as the one Kaczyński made, which are insulting to Silesians and, frankly, stupid.

Also the one he made in Biedronka that it's well know only poor people shop there.

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Edited by: guesswho Apr 4, 11, 23:29 #11

Torq:

Just out of curiosity - how many Silesians do you know personally, and how do you justify
making such a ridiculous statement?

Some of them feel German and belong to the German minority so they do know who they are and this is the only mistake PB made. Other than that, his statement isn't really that ridiculous because they're aware of their ethnic identity but live in Poland and are officially Polish. I could imagine, this situation might be a little confusing to some people.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Apr 4, 11, 23:31 #12
PennBoy: Also the one he made in Biedronka that it's well know only poor people shop there. He needs a rest, a holiday, a month in sanatorium or something. He's losing it.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Apr 4, 11, 23:34 #13

PennBoy:

Slow down, doesn't the current government have only a 30 some percent approval rating right now?,

In one poll. Most polls are showing PO at around 39-45%, which is in line with what they can reasonably expect.

PennBoy:

aren't prices in stores highest since communist times?

Nothing wrong with that. Higher prices will mean demands for higher wages and further convergence with the West. Might be a rocky ride along the way, but Poland is getting steadily wealthier.

PennBoy:

Kaczynski's pointing out that maybe the German minority is posing as Silesians to unite them in order for the region to break away from Poland.

The region doesn't want to break away. They might want some more autonomy, but virtually every large non-Warsaw province wants more autonomy. Look at my own one - people even have "Wlkp" stickers on cars.

alexw68:

For God's sake, someone take this poor, bereaved wreck of a man and his equally poor, bereaved, emaciated and betrayed wreck of a niece off the public radar for their own sakes.

I'm starting to think that they're deliberately allowing Kaczynski to crash and burn. Someone told me that he recently said that he intends to be Prezes of PiS until he's 100 - the man is quite clearly going absolutely crazy and is in no state to conduct another election campaign, let alone win.

The upcoming court case isn't going to help him either, especially if it comes out that he was doing some pretty heavy stuff to his coalition partners at the time.

The craziest thing about all of this is that they've got to defend a decent amount of seats in Silesia - are they really trying to push voters into the SLD/PO's arms? I could understanding insulting people in places like Lubuskie where their support is minimal - but in Silesia?

PennBoy:

Also the one he made in Biedronka that it's well know only poor people shop there.

It's well known by who?

I'm comfortably middle class and yet shop there at times - their meat is of considerably higher quality than any other supermarket, and my local shops can be rather hit or miss. Likewise, I see plenty of nice cars in the car park of my local Biedronka - and they are very much the dominant supermarket in many smaller satellite towns.

Kaczynski's comment about Biedronka did nothing but alienate the smart, but poor part of his electorate.

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Edited by: Torq Apr 4, 11, 23:37 #14

guesswho:

Some of them feel German and belong to the German minority so they do know who they are and this is the
only mistake PB made. Other than that, his statement isn't really that ridiculous because they're aware of
their ethnic identity but live in Poland and are officially Polish.

Are you talking about Silesians as inhabitants of Silesia, or Silesians as identity/ethnicity?
Because those who describe themselves as Silesians, are exactly that - Silesians (neither
Germans nor Poles), but that's a tiny minority (173 thousand out of 4.6 million).

The rest of Silesians (inhabitants of Silesia - to avoid misunderstanding) are simply Poles -
about 99% of them. There's only about 30 thousand people who declare German nationality
in the Silesian Vojvodship (compared to 153 thousand in the entire Poland - most of them
in Opole region).

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Edited by: delphiandomine Apr 4, 11, 23:41 #15

Torq:

He needs a rest, a holiday, a month in sanatorium or something. He's losing it.

He's lost it, I think.

I said months ago that my suspicion is that he's getting deliberately encouraged to do a lot of this stuff - he obviously still retains a power base, and the best way to get rid of him is to cause PiS to lose disastrously. He would have been gone already, if it wasn't for that excellent result in the Presidential election.

It's sad to watch, and I blame the party members.

I notice that recently, he's also claimed that the elections are going to be rigged this year - no doubt so that he's got an excuse for losing. He really is in no fit state to fight another campaign.

Torq, you'll know far better than me - do you know if PiS have anyone else with as much charisma as him?

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Edited by: Torq Apr 4, 11, 23:46 #16

delphiandomine:

do you know if PiS have anyone else with as much charisma as him?

They still have Kurski... maybe Czarnecki, but to be honest, I don't see any current PiS member,
who could lead the party to victory in the upcoming elections (which is a good thing).

Maybe finally the real right (PR, UPR-WiP) will finally get a decent result and enter the parliament.

*gotta catch some z's - I wasted enough time discussing Kaczyński's drivel :-/*

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Apr 4, 11, 23:51 #17

Torq:

PennBoy: As for Silesians they don't even know who they are exactly.

Just out of curiosity - how many Silesians do you know personally, and how do you justify
making such a ridiculous statement?

I know a lot. Some Silesians are frantic Polish patrions, Polish Silesians. Some are Silesians-Silesians, simply. Some have pro-German sympathies, a few are German Silesians, or purely Germans. Very rarely I met anybody who dreamed of joining Silesia to Germany, even amongst those German ones, and I probed deeply and cunningly, being naturally interested in the topic. Kaczynski is a moron.

I agree with the rest of what you say, except that I never heard that patriotic verse in Silesia. It is a bit complicated for Poles born and bred in a 99.99% pure Polish environment, yet it is the remnant of the Commonwealth. You could've been Watzenrode, a staunch Polish patriot, no problem.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Apr 5, 11, 00:00 #18
Torq: There's only about 30 thousand people who declare German nationality yeah, the rest of them had to leave after the WWII.

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Apr 5, 11, 01:06 #19

nott:

I know a lot. Some Silesians are frantic Polish patrions, Polish Silesians. Some are Silesians-Silesians, simply. Some have pro-German sympathies, a few are German Silesians, or purely Germans.

Tha'ts what i meant also, some just know they're Silesians but say and feel Polish, some are pro German.

nott:

Kaczynski is a moron.

Him and his niece are both nuts he's dick1ng himself and doesn't seam to realize it. I'd expect someone with a PhD in law to go about things in a better way.

rybnikThreads: 29 Posts: 1,232 Joined: Jan 16, 11 ♂	Apr 5, 11, 01:26 #20
I don't mean to be insulting but Polish politics seem at best clumsy and at it's worse like a summercamp food-fight..ugh

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Apr 5, 11, 01:47 #21

PennBoy:

Him and his niece are both nuts he's dick1ng himself and doesn't seam to realize it. I'd expect someone with a PhD in law to go about things in a better way.

To be fair, he's pretty much in a terribly vulnerable situation - his twin brother was killed in a plane crash, he's single and his mother was dreadfully ill in hospital at the time. I'm not surprised he's cracking up now - really, the only people to blame are the ones within PiS who allow him to continue to do this to himself.

Jaroslaw has never, ever been able to accept the defeat in 2007. You can see from the way he talks about Tusk - it clearly haunts him that he was able to rule and then saw his empire collapse around him.

rybnik:

I don't mean to be insulting but Polish politics seem at best clumsy and at it's worse like a summercamp food-fight..ugh

Tell us something we don't know?

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Apr 5, 11, 01:49 #22
delphiandomine: To be fair, he's pretty much in a terribly vulnerable situation - his twin brother was killed in a plane crash, wow DD, you actually talk "normal" to PB tonight, lol

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 11, 02:14 #23
Torq: recently? Recently?

picnanic	Apr 5, 11, 10:15 #24
Torq: because those who describe themselves as Silesians, are exactly that - Silesians (neither Germans nor Poles), but that's a tiny minority (173 thousand out of 4.6 million). It would be the biggest ethnic miniority in Poland.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 5, 11, 10:42 #25
guesswho: wow DD, you actually talk "normal" to PB tonight, lol That's because if he insults me, or I insult him, we're instantly suspended. We made a deal with Wroclaw :)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Apr 5, 11, 11:25 #26
picnanic: It would be the biggest ethnic miniority in Poland. Some sources estimate the number of Kashubians at about 600 thousand... http://www.muzeum.lebork.pl/index.php/pl/14/139/ ...although the official number is significantly smaller - about 100 thousand, if I'm not mistaken.

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Apr 5, 11, 12:01 #27

One more campaign of hatred against Jaro. He was talking about creatures standing behind the autonomy movement and he was 100% right in that case. Before you start screaming about nationalism etc. I couldn't care less if one individual or another feels Polish or not. The point in this case is that unlike other regional groups (like Highlanders or Kashubs) they don't want the regional identity to exist next to Polish one or even to simply replace it like in case of typical minorities (German or Ukrainian), these scumbags are trying to make a career provoking conflicts between people with strong Silesian identity and standard Poles. I've been following this issue since a long time. These creatures claim that Silesia would be the 8th wonder of the world If not these stinking Poles ruining and robbing it, they claim that Silesia is losing half of its money supporting other "primitive" regions when in fact the transfers between the central gov and the region are more or less equal, they say that they would be much better without idiots governing things from Warsaw, idiots indeed but they ignore a fact that many of these idiots are coming from Silesia and are elected by people living in Silesia, they also say that "primitive rednecks" brought there after 1945 (majority of the population) are to blame for anything bad happening in Silesia. I'm not kidding, go read their forums. In the long term It can lead to Rwanda style conflict in Silesia between "natives" and "newcomers" as some uneducated people seem to believe in their crap. The autonomy movement freaks should be flushed down the closet and the only scandal in this case is PO having a coalition with them on the regional level. They are legitimizing this sh1t.

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Apr 5, 11, 12:50 #28

It is not about ethic minority is about some suckers and some cunning bastards, RAS is a way for milk monies from Germany, Poland and EU.
Autonomy can be used to destabilize Poland in the long run, look at the Kosovo case, so I don't see why Kaczynski is an idiot:)

All of you having a go at Kaczynski seems not to realise that he is not governing Poland for a many years now, and for PO is a very handy that press lap at everything that he says, instead of scrutinize governing party.
Don't you find is funny that almost everything in Poland is about what and why Kaczynski says or does - it makes others politicians secondary dwarves without initiative and ideas or cares,except vote for us, eh?

delphiandomine:

Tell us something we don't know?

You are an Anti-Semite and a racists, seems that not everyone noticed your words on here, few days ago:)
So, you are the last qualified person to judge others, especially not to utter opinions about their mental health, being a lawyer not a psychiatrist, eh?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 5, 11, 14:05 #29
PennBoy: “A Report on the State of the Republic” Another thing... I haven't actually heard from the media about anything else from that +100 pages report except this issue, which was obviously doctored into the "Kaczynski is xenophobic" stuff.

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Edited by: Torq Apr 5, 11, 14:49 #30

Don't mix two different things - the actions and goals of RAŚ and its leaders, and genuine Silesian
identity. How many Silesians (even out of those 173 thousand, who declared Silesian nationality)
are members of RAŚ? Or how many Silesians even support that movement? I know a lot of
genuine Silesians, who are Polish patriots and don't even consider Gorzelik (RAŚ leader) to be
a true Silesian.

If Kaczyński had criticized RAŚ, I would have said nothing, because this organisation has very little
to do with true Silesia and Silesians. Unfortunately, Kaczyński basically told Silesians that they are
Germans in denial, and belittled their genuine Silesian identity.

Don't let the few RAŚ morons, who post on various Polish language fora, fool you into thinking
that their attitude mirrors the attitude of any significant percentage of Silesians.

Grzegorz_:

In the long term It can lead to Rwanda style conflict in Silesia

Ironside:

Autonomy can be used to destabilize Poland in the long run, look at the Kosovo case

Stop the feckin paranoia, lads. In Kosovo 98% of inhabitants are Albanians, in Silesia 96% are Poles.
Besides, Germans in Opole are good Polish citizens and they don't even mention anything like "breaking
away for Poland", so all this hysteria is quite funny.

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