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Kashubians are nation in Poland?


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BabylonThreads: 28
Posts: 335
Joined: Oct 9, 06 ♂ 		 May 1, 09, 15:08    #1
Kashubians are nation in Poland? or a Polish dialect?
markcooperThreads: 6
Posts: 113
Joined: Apr 27, 09 ♂ 		 May 1, 09, 15:24    #2
Babylon:
Kashubians are nation in Poland? or a Polish dialect?

Are they not a band ??
BabylonThreads: 28
Posts: 335
Joined: Oct 9, 06 ♂ 		 May 1, 09, 15:30    #3
Kashubians are a West Slavic ethnic group in Pomerelia, north-central Poland.
SoftsongThreads: 6
Posts: 588
Joined: Sep 2, 07  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 May 1, 09, 16:24    #4
Yes, they are a West Slavic ethnic group. They speak their own language which is closely related to Polish. They at one time were losing their identity, but are in touch with their folkroots, dress and crafts now.

If you go to Gdańsk, you can buy many things made by Kashubians.

Since Prussia occupied these areas before WWII, some Kashubians in the western part of the area, were assimilated with the Germans in the area, began speaking Low German, and became Lutheran. They were expelled after WWII.

Those in the eastern areas, remained Catholic and identified with the Slavic world, still speak their own language, and still live in Pomerelia.

I am Polish on my mother's side, but on my father's side, I have Kashubian roots. I only learned of this recently. I thought they were all Germanic on his side. So, their history is especially interesting to me.
lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂ 		 May 1, 09, 21:12    #5
Babylon:
Kashubians are nation in Poland? or a Polish dialect?

You need to go to some Kashubian pub and start shouting that Kashubians aren't Poles. Then you will learn for sure :)
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,306
Joined: Apr 21, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 May 1, 09, 21:24    #6
lesser:
You need to go to some Kashubian pub and start shouting that Kashubians aren't Poles. Then you will learn for sure :)

yes as they cart you off to the mental hospital.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 1, 09, 21:57    #7
time means:
yes as they cart you off to the mental hospital.

Its a Polish pub we're talking about, he sure as hell will be going to a hospital but not the mental one:)
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 May 2, 09, 01:30    #8
I don't understand Kasubians or Silesians, all those Slavic tribes that settled in what is present day Poland, Pomeranians, Vistulans, Polans, Masovians and others, mixed together and formed the Polish nation, if they've lived among us for at least a thousand years they must have mixed with us also, so why don't they just let go and become of a larger nation all those other tribes did, and Silesians are completely weird, they'd rather be part of Germany.
SoftsongThreads: 6
Posts: 588
Joined: Sep 2, 07  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 May 2, 09, 03:48    #9
As far as I know, they do consider themselves to be Poles and part of the larger nation, but they also like to speak their language and remember their regional customs.
mbiernatThreads: 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Sep 24, 08 ♂ 		 May 2, 09, 07:54    #10
Kasubians are simply a western Slavic group that keeps their traditions.
plk123Threads: 30
Posts: 6,412
Joined: Aug 29, 07  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 May 2, 09, 08:14    #11
i don't think they are either PL or D.. they are their own band.
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 19:32    #12
Why my post about Kashubain opinion has been delated :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_Poland

INTEREG estimated there are up to 500,000 Kashubians in Poland.[citation needed] In the Polish census of 2002, however, only 5,100 people declared Kashubian nationality, although 51,000 declared Kashubian as their native language

They conisder themselves Polish.

Kaszuby



Some famous Kashubians:

Antoni Abraham (1869-1923) Kashubian representative to the Versailles Treaty, political activist and proponent of Polish Kashubia
Lech Bądkowski (1920-1984) writer, journalist, translator, political, cultural, and social activist
Józef Borzyszkowski (1946- ) historian, politician, founder of the Kashubian Institute
Florian Ceynowa (1817-1881) political activist, writer, linguist, and revolutionary
Nathan Darga, urban planner
Hieronim Derdowski (1852-1902) poet, humorist, journalist
Konstantyn Dominik (1870-1942) bishop
Jan Drzeżdżon (1937-1992) novelist
Franciszek Grucza (1911-1993) writer, translator
Teodora Gulgowska née Fethke (1860-1959) painter, ethnographer, co-founder of the first open-air museum in Poland
Izydor Gulgowski (1874-1925) poet, ethnographer, co-founder of the first open-air museum in Poland
Stanisław Janke (1956- ) poet, novelist, translator
Zbigniew Jankowski actor, translator
Marian Jelinski (1949- ) translator, writer
Zenon Kitowski (1962- ) clarinet player
Gerard Labuda (1916- ) historian
Aleksander Majkowski (1876-1938) author, publicist, play writer, cultural activist
Marian Mokwa (1889-1987) maritime painter, traveller, social activist
Alojzy Nagel (1930-1998) poet
Augustyn Necel (1902-1976) novelist
Jerzy Samp (1951- ) writer, publicist, historian, and social activist
Wawrzyniec Samp (1939- ) sculptor and graphic artist
Jerzy Stachurski (1953- ) poet, composer
Danuta Stenka (1961- ) actress
Abdon Stryszak (1908 - 1995) professor of veterinary medicine
Bernard Sychta (1907-1982) poet, song-writer, lexicographer
Brunon Synak is a professor of sociology and a Kashubian activist
Jerzy Treder (1942- ) professor - Kashubian language
Jan Trepczyk (1907-1989) poet, song-writer, lexicographer and creator of the Polish-Kashubian dictionary
Donald Tusk (1957- ) historian, politician, leader of Platforma Obywatelska, Prime Minister of Poland
freebirdThreads: 3
Posts: 638
Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂ 		 May 4, 09, 19:36    #13
lesser:
You need to go to some Kashubian pub and start shouting that Kashubians aren't Poles. Then you will learn for sure :)

I"ve met some of them and they told me they were Germans and spoke German to me too.
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 19:38    #14
freebird:
I"ve met some of them and they told me they were Germans and spoke German to me too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaśnica_Wielka

In the forest next to the village during World War II, German Schutzstaffel executed about 12,000 people, mainly Polish and Kashubian intelligentsia from Gdańsk Pomerania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stutthof_concentration_camp

The first inmates imprisoned on 2 September 1939 were 150 Polish citizens, arrested on the streets of Gdańsk right after the outbreak of the war. The inmate population rose to 6,000 in the following two weeks, on 15 September 1939.

Tens of thousands of people, perhaps as many as 110,000, were deported to the Stutthof camp. The prisoners were mainly non-Jewish Poles.
freebirdThreads: 3
Posts: 638
Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: freebird  May 4, 09, 19:50    #15
Salomon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaśnica_Wielka

well, I'm saying what I've experienced on my own. I know now it's a part of Poland.
I'd like to add something to it, from my point of view a person is what it feels to be. Your history guys is very complicated and your western territories have been changing hands all the time so I leave it up to the people, let them be whoever they feel to be.
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 19:58    #16
freebird:
well, I'm saying what I've experienced on my own. I know now it's a part of Poland.I'd like to add something to it, from my point of view a person is what it feels to be. Your history guys is very complicated and your western territories have been changing hands all the time so

Yes it is very complicated as pro-Polish Silesian uprings :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesian_Uprisings

he Silesian Uprisings (German: Aufstände in Oberschlesien; Polish: Powstania śląskie) were a series of three armed uprisings of the Poles and Polish Silesians of Upper Silesia, from 1919–1921, against Weimar rule; the resistance hoped to break away from Germany in order to join the Second Polish Republic, which had been established in the wake of World War I. In the latter-day history of Poland after World War II, the insurrections were celebrated as centrepieces of national pride.

freebird:
I leave it up to the people, let them be whoever they feel to be.

I agree.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 May 4, 09, 20:02    #17
Yeah well...Danzigers greeted the german Wehrmacht with flowers too as Hitler brought them back into the Reich! :)

National pride here too!
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 20:03    #18
Bratwurst Boy:
Yeah well...Danzigers greeted the german Wehrmacht with flowers too as Hitler brought them back into the Reich! :)

The problem is that they have started to murder Poles there...
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 4, 09, 20:08    #19
Salomon:
The problem is that they have started to murder Poles there...

They wouldn't if the borders had stayed as they were!

Orphans Of Versailles: The Germans in Western Poland

http://www.amazon.com/Orphans-Versailles-Germans-Western-1918-1939/dp/ 0813118034
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 20:14    #20
Bratwurst Boy:
They wouldn't if the borders had stayed as they were!

Antoni Abraham (1869-1923) Kashubian representative to the Versailles Treaty, political activist and proponent of Polish Kashubia

monument




Florian Ceynowa had different opinion :

In the XIXth century the Kashubian activist Florian Ceynowa undertook efforts to identitfy Kashubian language, culture and traditions. He awakened Kashubian self-identity He believed in a separate Kashubian identity and strove for a Russian-led pan-Slavic federacy.He considered Poles "born brothers"
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 4, 09, 20:19    #21
Salomon:
Some Kashubs had different opinions :

Of course they had...it wasn't Kashubians (mostly) who killed Poles later!
They weren't the ones you should have tried to clear things up with before...
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 20:21    #22
Bratwurst Boy:
Of course they had...it wasn't Kashubians (mostly) who killed Poles later!

When I was talking about Poles killed I've been talking about Kashubs.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 May 4, 09, 20:22    #23
Salomon:
When I was talking about Poles killed I've been talking about Kashubs.

Yeah...and reading the thread topic I better walk out now....:)
SalomonThreads: 6
Posts: 602
Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: Salomon  May 4, 09, 20:27    #24
Bratwurst Boy:
Yeah...and reading the thread topic I better walk out now....:)

Some people are just ignorant ... well Germans form the east after WWII were called "Polacks" in West Germany ... ignorant people are everywhere.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 4, 09, 20:33    #25
Salomon:
Some people are just ignorant ... well Germans form the east after WWII were called "Polacks" in West Germany ... ignorant people are everywhere.

Not the eastern Germans per se but often those Germans who had to leave what became Poland and had to resettle across the new smaller Germany between foreign towns and communities as they spoke other dialects, had other customs, other dishes etc.
It took awhile for them to grow new roots...but most of them never forgot about the "alte Heimat".
(Actually now with the third generation the interest is as big as never before...the what is now often called eastern Germany is called by them "middle" Germany!)
lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂ 		 May 4, 09, 21:11    #26
freebird:
I"ve met some of them and they told me they were Germans and spoke German to me too.

Maybe they were simply expelled Germans. I live in Gdansk and have Kashubian roots myself but I never meet such German Kashubians.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 4, 09, 21:20    #27
I don't believe Kashubians are ethnic Germans....just another slavic tribe like the Sorbs in Germany.
Some of them became germanized during the centuries (as ethnic Poles too) and some became polonized.
The usual history of many people in this region....
Should they have their own nation? Such a thing would not be viable (as with the Sorbs).
But in a future Europe of Regions the Kashubians surely have their place...
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 4, 09, 22:12    #28
Bratwurst Boy:
But in a future Europe of Regions

I'd say i hope it wont happen but since i know it wont happen its ok :)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  May 4, 09, 22:16    #29
Sokrates:
I'd say i hope it wont happen but since i know it wont happen its ok :)

Interesting attitude Sokrates! :)

But it's the natural way of things. It's nothing new actually but rather going back to normalcy for the Europeans.
Nationstates are relatively new and just a blip on the radar of history and time and will slowly go out of fashion again (much to slow for our generation though....)

But it WILL happen! :)
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 May 4, 09, 22:46    #30
Bratwurst Boy:
But it's the natural way of things.

No its not, we're wearing pants that are too big for us, we're all still very much in love with nations, middle Germany is your example.
Bratwurst Boy:
It's nothing new actually but rather going back to normalcy for the Europeans.

You know BB i'd give anything to meet you in real life in ten years and remind you of your post just to see your face, Europe is a healthy war and more than a century away from normality.
Bratwurst Boy:
But it WILL happen! :)

Eventually yes but not now, Germans want to be in the saddle, French want to be in the saddle, Britain is Americas *****, Russia is inherently unstable and prone to failiure and what Poland is you will believe only in 20 or so years after it happens, one way or the other the idea of unified Europe of regions is a sound one but its a few generations ahead of our monkey mentality right now.

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