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Katyn Ceremony


posts: 11

polskisoldier88Threads: 9
Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 21, 10
 Apr 9, 10, 01:33    #1
http://www.euronews.net/nocomment/2010/04/08/katyn-ceremony/


wow look at his face he does not even care what a shame poland iam with you all the way

1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
 Apr 9, 10, 07:35    #2
"Putin's motives are difficult to decipher. Does he intend to sincerely reconcile with the Poles? Or is it only part of his calculus? Healthy Polish-Russian relations would surely help Moscow facilitate policy with the European Union and NATO."

"However, the signals currently coming from Moscow are contradictory. On the one hand, Putin invited the Poles to a joint commemoration of Katyn on the 70th anniversary of the massacre; distanced himself from the 'crimes of totalitarianism'; and promised to find out the names of the final victims. On the other, the Russian government has declared before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg that it isn't even clear that Poles were actually murdered in Katyn. So one can't yet talk about the rehabilitation of victims or even compensation."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,687934,00.html

Perhaps Putin should coordinate with his government what their real stance is. The answer to Strasbourg a few days before the ceremony has been very absent from English speaking media.

Photo ops are nice, but it boils down to actions, not flowery words. So far, the Russian government is still withholding some names of victims, refusing to rehabilitate the murdered, and not allowing the Poles access to archives and the records of the Russian investigation ended in 2004.
violettaThreads: 2
Posts: 33
Joined: Jun 28, 09
 Apr 9, 10, 21:06    #3
Although I can understand about wanting to find out what happened to loved ones/family members, I think that this ceremony just opened up a whole new can of worms between Poland and Russia...as if there wasn't enough bickering, hatred, and who's better than who garbage between the two already...

Oh well...
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07
 Apr 9, 10, 21:44    #4
I think that's the first time that I've seen an honour guard of both Poles and Russians marching side by side in modern times, under Polish/Russian flags...
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Apr 9, 10, 21:56    #5
Katyń was an affront to sensibility but typical of wartime tactics. I hope Russians and Poles use this as a gap bridger and that one generation can criticise their predecessors, paving the way for future cordial ties. Sometimes the headstrong aspect of Slavs gets in the way but let's hope decency prevails :)
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
Edited by: 1jola  Apr 10, 10, 00:08    #6
violetta:
Although I can understand about wanting to find out what happened to loved ones/family members, I think that this ceremony just opened up a whole new can of worms between Poland and Russia...


Not sure how to express your thoughts, huh? Do you have a complete thought you would like to share with us on this subject. BTW, the families know very well what happened to their loved ones. This is not the issue.

Seanus:
Sometimes the headstrong aspect of Slavs gets in the way but let's hope decency prevails :)


Read the bold print in my post above.
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07
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 Apr 10, 10, 00:09    #7
Katyn Ceremony

at least SOMETHING is much more then NOTHING
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
 Apr 10, 10, 00:14    #8
Putin's photo op was for the consumption of the naive.
CrowThreads: 367
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 Apr 10, 10, 00:22    #9
1jola:
Putin's photo op was for the consumption of the naive.

you have Arabs, English princes, German magnates,... coming to Poland. you think that they are more honest?

anyway... when i looking at Tusk and Putin how walk side by side, i asking myself, are those people aware that without coordinate action of Poland and Russia, complete Slavic world most probably could relatively soon cease to exist. That is what crossing my mind while they walk and talk. Just that
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
Edited by: 1jola  Apr 10, 10, 02:29    #10
Are you as big on Serbian and Croatian love affair? Are Croatians building monuments to Ustashi and would you just ignore that for the sake of Slavic unity?

If Putin had actually done something to bring us closer, I would be less sceptical. He didn't and his government's stance is most hostile and uncooperative in the respect to Katyń. You fell for it yourself, and saw two brothers walking together. I did not.

I like your vision and optimism though.

Later on, today, there will be the real ceremony at Katyń.
CrowThreads: 367
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Edited by: Crow  Apr 10, 10, 09:10    #11
1jola

Hardly that Serbian-Croatian antagonism has anything with Polish-Russian problem. Really. You absolutely can`t compare those issues.

1jola:
Are you as big on Serbian and Croatian love affair? Are Croatians building monuments to Ustashi and would you just ignore that for the sake of Slavic unity?

Croatian nation would be dissolute from within when former Serbs (old Catholic and forcible converted Orthodox) rebel and re-join with rest of the Serbian nation.

1jola:
Are Croatians building monuments to Ustashi and would you just ignore that for the sake of Slavic unity?

i wouldn`t ignore. Would you? i also have informations that croatinized Serbs who are now forced to be Croats already seek their way to escape from deeply germanized Croatian identity

Ustashe are symbol of Croatian and German alliance and when you see that Croatia building monuments to them, you simple know that ruling elite of Croatia see Croatia within Germanic and not within Slavic world. That`s how it is. Croatian delusion with Germans isn`t Serbian problem (in all that we just worry for Serbs who are forced to be Croats). Croatia is more problem of complete Slavic world or maybe even isn`t problem. Croatia is more and more German problem actually. Just, too bad for that Adriatic See and coast that was with great Serbian casualties saved for Slavija in WWI.

1jola:
If Putin had actually done something to bring us closer, I would be less sceptical. He didn't and his government's stance is most hostile and uncooperative in the respect to Katyń.

forget about Putin. He may manage to do something or he may failed. For you as a Pole, for Poles in general is more important that ordinary Russian people very much likes Poland and don`t see Poles as enemies and don`t have any genocidal intentions on Poland, nor ever had. Russians really see Poles as kin ethos and even admire to Poland no matter that won`t admit it.

After Putin other Russians would come and Poles would recognize brothers in them.

1jola:
You fell for it yourself, and saw two brothers walking together. I did not.

I like your vision and optimism though.

i didin`t say that i see brothers. I see two politicians that represent Poland and Russia. But, thoughts about great Poland`s and Russia`s historic responsibility for Slavic world crossed my mind.

i don`t know for you but i am quite aware of global processes. Its less and less Slavs and more and more those who would like to finish with Slavs. Fertility rate for Slavs is tragic, a lot of Slavs is exposed to assimilation, Slavs continuing to immigrate in non-Slavic countries, quality of life in Slavic countries is lower then in countries that are hostile on Slavic territories andd people, Slavic technological level is questionable, etc, etc.

Idiotism of Russian and Polish politicians don`t make me sad. It upsets me.



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