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Komorowski asks forgiveness for Jedwabne


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JonnyMThreads: 16
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 Jul 14, 11, 04:00    #151
gumishu:

remember who rules the past rules the present ;)

He's gone up in my estimation! Though his words were more likely a prediction - and a fair one given that Poland is among the last of the European countries to resolve the issue of property belonging to families who were murdered.

Do you a) honestly believe that the surviving members of a murdered family should be denied their estate, and b) this has anything to do with the President's recently restated apology?

BzibziohThreads: 6
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Edited by: Bzibzioh  Jul 14, 11, 04:06    #152
JonnyM:
Do you a) honestly believe that the surviving members of a murdered family should be denied their estate

Better question yet, and more relevant: do you believe that property of someone who died without an heir should become property of the state the property is located in, as the law this state requires, or that value of said property should be rewarded to another unrelated country just because the law of that country said so?
JonnyMThreads: 16
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 Jul 14, 11, 04:09    #153
Bzibzioh:
just because the law of that country said so?

That would depend on whether or not that property belonged to a member of a discrete group who was murdered, along with his heirs, for being a member of that group. Even heirs have heirs.
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Jul 14, 11, 04:16    #154
JonnyM:
Even heirs have heirs.

Nope, no heirs, not a living soul.

But at least you came clean about your real motivations and who are you rooting for.
gumishuThreads: 17
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 Jul 14, 11, 04:36    #155
JonnyM:
Do you a) honestly believe that the surviving members of a murdered family should be denied their estate, and b) this has anything to do with the President's recently restated apology?


Polish inheritance law (until very recently - I sense something very bad here - it smells of garlic :P) in cases there was no last will extant allowed only: children, spouses, parents and siblings to be heirs - all the other family were not granted any inheritance - there is also another issue which is compensation between the US and Poland (I don't know if they are legally binding for the US government but it is quite possible they are) and also the communist nationalization decrees (which did not make difference between nationalities of property owners) - this sum up into one simple thing: only in a handful of cases (from my non legally educated mind) can any talk of inheritance rights be justified (when the siblings of the tragically deceased are still alive (and the property was not nationalised by the decrees of the 50's) without some serious fiddling around court procedures
JonnyMThreads: 16
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 Jul 14, 11, 05:27    #156
gumishu:
it smells of garlic :P

???
gumishu:
in cases there was no last will extant allowed only: children, spouses, parents and siblings to be heirs - all the other family were not granted any inheritance

So not fit for purpose, in a country where so many nuclear families were wiped out and the nearest relatives are cousins etc.
MediaWatchThreads: 31
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 Jul 14, 11, 05:36    #157
skysoulmate:
Nonsense, it would simply imply that Poland, like any other nation in the world, has some deplorable moments in her otherwise glorious past AND that the nation has accepted responsibility for the past, learned from it and works hard toward a brighter future; one where Catholics, Lutherans, Atheist, Agnostics, AND Jews, etc., etc. all come TOGETHER for a better Poland.


My God your living in the world of Oz. LOL Don’t you think you are being just a little bit too idealistic here?? Most people are just going to go by the media sound bites that they hear about Poland. If you think the Anti-Polish New York Times and other Big Lefty media are going to spell out that there is bad and good in Poland, you have to be kidding me.

They will do what they have done before and like what Delphiadomine just did. They will say this is POLISH BEHAVIOR because after all it was Poles who did it!!!
Although knock on wood, I haven’t noticed the New York Times and similar media do it as much as they used to. Maybe the complaints they have been getting from Polish-Americans is starting to kick in now. LOL

We have Americans killing each other every day here yet nobody is talking about how killing is AMERICAN BEHAVIOR and rightly so because every nation has its criminals. The Russians were some of the biggest anti-semitic murderers on the face of the earth. That’s why the word “Pogrom” is a Russian word. Should we say murdering Jews is RUSSIAN BEHAVIOR???

Also Russians always talk about how “evil” Jews are. Just look at the Russian forums like Pravda.


skysoulmate:
Absolutely not, denouncing the neighbors, ships not allowed into Canada, etc. was all wrong. However, I will NEVER say "well, those murders of innocent people in Jedwabne are being blown out of proportion and are being used to portray Poland in a bad light" because that would be hypocritical. The people who were burned alive did not think their lives being taken away were "being blown out of proportion", they were Poles being burned alive by other Poles, hypocrisy at its worst. To "move on" one must acknowledge the past first without using any excuses such as "well, they (the Jews) weren't innocent themselves, etc."


But how can Poland move on if the anti-Polish media won’t move on?? Polish president Krasinewski already apologized for this 10 years ago. 10 years before that, Polish president Lech Walesa was apologizing for “Poland’s anti-semitism”.

How many apology tours do Polish presidents have to do before Jews and Polish-haters are happy??


When will some Jews show courage and leadership and apologize for the horrible things Stalin’s Jews did??
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Do you think its blowing things out of proportion by requesting that Jews come forward and apologize for what Stalin’s Jews did??

I’m sure the lives of the people taken away by Stalin's Jews did not think “their lives were blown out of proportion”

Do you have sympathy for these millions of souls who were killed by Stalin's Jews?? When will they be remembered?

Do you want them remembered???




delphiandomine:
Let's be honest - you're only attacking it because you've been spoon fed a steady stream of anti-Jewish propaganda from a very young age. I suspect you don't even know any Jewish people - and it's pretty obvious that you use this website because you wouldn't dare utter the same views in public.


Tell me Delph. Why is the word Pogrom a RUSSIAN word?

Who started communism? The Russians or the Jews? Many Russians say it was the Jews who started communism. Does that make Russians anti-semitic or honest???
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 Jul 14, 11, 06:14    #158
JonnyM:
Do you need to know who lived in the town?


Some 2-3 thousand people. What's your point ?
gumishuThreads: 17
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 Jul 14, 11, 07:30    #159
MediaWatch:
But how can Poland move on if the anti-Polish media won’t move on?? Polish president Krasinewski already apologized for this 10 years ago. 10 years before that, Polish president Lech Walesa was apologizing for “Poland’s anti-semitism”.

How many apology tours do Polish presidents have to do before Jews and Polish-haters are happy??


they don't want just apologies - they want apologies and property (or biiiig compensation)

JonnyM:
gumishu:
in cases there was no last will extant allowed only: children, spouses, parents and siblings to be heirs - all the other family were not granted any inheritance

So not fit for purpose, in a country where so many nuclear families were wiped out and the nearest relatives are cousins etc.


purpose of what?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Edited by: Moderator  Jul 14, 11, 10:48    #160
gumishu:
they don't want just apologies - they want apologies and property (or biiiig compensation)


"They" is a bit broad - while there's undeniably some part that wants cash, the vast majority of Jewish people would simply like the truth to be told without idiots interfering.

Those demanding cash are just as bad as the idiots who deny Jedwabne, in my opinion. They're also a minority and should be ignored.

If you ask me, in my opinion - there should have been no property returned at all, to no-one. Property being returned to Jews, Catholics, Poles, Germans, whatever - none of it should have been returned, but rather sold on the free market (perhaps with some generous loan arrangements to help ordinary Poles buy them).
gumishuThreads: 17
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Edited by: gumishu  Jul 14, 11, 11:54    #161
delphiandomine:
gumishu:
they don't want just apologies - they want apologies and property (or biiiig compensation)


"They" is a bit broad - while there's undeniably some part that wants cash, the vast majority of Jewish people would simply like the truth to be told without idiots interfering.


don't play this assuming game delphi - you are just assuming that most Jews are fine people without prejudices - would you think they will be satisfied by this truth or they will never get enough of people around groveling at their feet mumbling 'yes, we're guilty, we're guilty of whatever you wish' - and the picture is there is blame and shame game going on by influential Jewish circles as frankly revealed by Israel Singer (read the wiki entry) and the goal of the game is to extract as much in cash or property from Poland even if Polish law does not allow any inheritance to the disposal of organizations like WJC or AJC - read for example Norman Finkelstein (or watch youtube with the videos with him) and you will learn how much of the money extracted by WJC from Switzerland (a brazen blackmail btw) and Germany reached the actual survivors of Holocaust


my answer to demands that go beyond the Polish law is BEAT IT - bad-mouth us as much as you will - brazen Jews

delphiandomine:

Quite frankly, none of us consider you to be Polish anyway.


I do consider her pure Polish, dear friend - some of your tricks are really cheap
BBmanThreads: -
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 Jul 16, 11, 02:03    #162
delphiandomine:
I wonder when the Christian (specifically, the Catholic variant) religion demands apologies from others as a condition for forgiveness.


When did I or the CC demand apologies from others as a condition for forgiveness?
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jul 16, 11, 12:37    #163
Forgiveness has to be given ASAP and not decades later as feelings have long since been cemented.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
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 Jul 16, 11, 12:53    #164
Can somebody tell me who killed who there ? How many people on both sides ?
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jul 16, 11, 12:54    #165
The figures are far from clear, Greg. There seems to be much fabrication, as is often the case in historical discussions.


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