Komorowski for complex-ridden Poles?

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May 22, 10, 13:30 #1

I heard someone say recently that Poles with an inferiority complex are voting for Komorowski because they have a low level of national self-worth. In their view, Poland must shed its own identity, ape everything in the West and under the guise of privatisation sell off its few remaining assets to foreign capitalists. Those who feel that a country can always learn from others but that a 100% copy-cat culture is not necessary, that Poland has values of its own worth cultivating and that Poland should retain a few strategic industries will be backing Kaczyński. Do you agree, disagree or don't care?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	May 22, 10, 13:38 #2
Polonius3: Do you agree, disagree or don't care? Much of Poland has other things to worry about at the moment. The election is simply about left wing / right wing politics

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May 22, 10, 13:57 #3

Selling off the country's last industrial assets and turning Poland into a land of hirelings on a foreign payroll affects all Poles. Foreign capital channels the bulk of itsi profits to its home countries and reinvests only the bare minimum needed to keep things running. In case of war (and that can never be ruled out at some future date), having all banks, factories, mines and steelmills in foreign hands may not be such a good thing. But even in peacetime that strips the natives of a psycholgocially important element -- pride of ownership. Is the nearly total lack of Polish-owned industry, designs, logos and innovations a good for the national soul?

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Edited by: frd May 22, 10, 14:18 #4

I see Komorowski as lesser evil hence I'll be voting for him. I generally like PO but something about him just makes me cringe, maybe it's his village bumpkin looks, certain plainness.. I don't like the way he's talking either, he already commited several faux pas and it's only the beginning. On the other hand one should take into consideration that he's acts as a marshal and president and is participating in the election as a candidate. I suspect he doesn't have much time to be everywhere..

Oh.. Kaczyński is giving a speech on tvn24, it makes me cringe even more, all those lambs cheering for him..

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 22, 10, 15:01 #5
Polonius3: I heard someone say recently that Poles with an inferiority complex are voting for Komorowski because they have a low level of national self-worth. frd: I see Komorowski as lesser evil hence I'll be voting for him. Interesting Thread, Polonius3. As a newly-confirmed Polish Citizen, I just may vote in "my" first-ever Polish election. :)

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Edited by: delphiandomine May 22, 10, 15:17 #6

richasis:

As a newly-confirmed Polish Citizen, I just may vote in "my" first-ever Polish election. :)

Don't get me started on this. Something is seriously wrong when "Polish" (who don't speak Polish and who have never lived there) can vote in elections, yet foreign individuals living in Poland can't.

(yes, American Kaczynski-voting Polonia, I'm looking at you)

Polonius3:

Is the nearly total lack of Polish-owned industry, designs, logos and innovations a good for the national soul?

And what did Jaroslaw Kaczynski do to increase this? He's supported by Solidarity, who we all know are nothing but psuedo-communists who want their guaranteed jobs, wages and positions in uneconomic factories. Meanwhile, the same people are also mad at Solaris, one of the genuine Polish success stories of the 90's/2000's.

Anyway, in times of war, Poland could easily renationalise any industry they wished.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 23, 10, 05:14 #7

Polonius3:

I heard someone say recently that Poles with an inferiority complex are voting for Komorowski because they have a low level of national self-worth. In their view, Poland must shed its own identity, ape everything in the West and under the guise of privatisation sell off its few remaining assets to foreign capitalists. Those who feel that a country can always learn from others but that a 100% copy-cat culture is not necessary, that Poland has values of its own worth cultivating and that Poland should retain a few strategic industries will be backing Kaczyński. Do you agree, disagree or don't care?

what absolute and unadulterated crap!!

If anything it is almost certainly the reverse, people with a complex would be more inclined to vote for Kaczynski. After all he probably has the greatest complex of them all!

I think you need a lesson in economics, the sale of state assets reduces corruption, pays down the debt and makes them more competitive. Instead of being controlled by people who cannot be Fu#ed to serve you properly because they have a job for life, you are actually served by people whose job depends on it.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 23, 10, 05:19 #8
delphiandomine: Don't get me started on this. It's called Citizenship. Same holds true for USA. Any other countries beside these two so far?

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May 23, 10, 06:22 #9

hague1cmaeron:

I think you need a lesson in economics, the sale of state assets reduces corruption, pays down the debt and makes them more competitive.

Yeah, we've had that lesson in economics in the last couple of years.
Remind me, how much of Bolivia's national debt have Biwater and Bechtel Corporations paid off? Wanna tell us about water shortages, accounting errors, and rate increases that took place? The fvckers wanted to control even rain water!

How about the wonderful success of water privatization in England? How much of UK's debt was paid off? Would you say that over 40% rate increase in 9 years, and reduction in investments were really so good? So much for the competition, huh?

Unrestricted capitalism means disaster, and there were plenty of examples of that. Lack of ownership of national resources by the nation means slavery of the whole country to foreign interest.

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	May 23, 10, 06:30 #10
Interesting post. IMHO Poland needs to look inward. It spends too much time looking to other countries for it's solutions. Poland needs to depend on Poland.

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May 23, 10, 07:23 #11

hague1cmaeron:

You are making some ridicules comparisons, as for the UK debt, it is not the fault of the Conservatives that every time there is a Labour gov in power they fu#k things up.

It makes no difference which face is on the poster. The UK, US (and most othe EU countries) have only one party. It is called Business Party. The folks people vote for are their delivery boys.

hague1cmaeron:

This will help you to appreciate the state of the Polish economy, and why the current economic path is the right one.

It's a nice article but this is one guy's opinion, although I'm sure many share that opinion.

Privatization is the problem, not the solution. Private ownership shows a strong tendency to consolidation of economic power, killing of small businesses and eventually to the establishment of monopolies. That's what we've been actually seeing in the last decades. Look at the banking system. It is a disaster!

Or take the oil industry. Standard Oil (SO) was broken into a bunch of smaller companies, which eventually have been bought out and we're close to oil monopoly again. I think we have now 3 oil companies operating in the US. Not hard to fix prices, is it?

I have no problem with private ownership in general, but some things, such as natural resources and land should be always under a strict control of the nation. Companies should be able to use some of those resources under revocable licenses, but never own things such as nation's oil, coal or water.

In some areas, it would be awesome if private companies managed some of the national assets, but still report to the nation, not to stock holders, and be paid based on their performance, i.e. efficiency, measurable benefits to the nation etc. And by nation I don't mean big banks, political leaders and chairmen of international corporations.

I consider the corporation as an economic phenomenon to be evil, immoral and against the good of people.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 23, 10, 09:09 #12

z_darius:

It's a nice article but this is one guy's opinion, although I'm sure many share that opinion.

Privatization is the problem, not the solution. Private ownership shows a strong tendency to consolidation of economic power, killing of small businesses and eventually to the establishment of monopolies. That's what we've been actually seeing in the last decades. Look at the banking system. It is a disaster!

Or take the oil industry. Standard Oil (SO) was broken into a bunch of smaller companies, which eventually have been bought out and we're close to oil monopoly again. I think we have now 3 oil companies operating in the US. Not hard to fix prices, is it?

I have no problem with private ownership in general, but some things, such as natural resources and land should be always under a strict control of the nation. Companies should be able to use some of those resources under revocable licenses, but never own things such as nation's oil, coal or water.

In some areas, it would be awesome if private companies managed some of the national assets, but still report to the nation, not to stock holders, and be paid based on their performance, i.e. efficiency, measurable benefits to the nation etc. And by nation I don't mean big banks, political leaders and chairmen of international corporations.

I consider the corporation as an economic phenomenon to be evil, immoral and against the good of people.

I agree you are partly right, but for a country like Poland the opposite is the problem of too many public companies not too few. Banking regulation has undoubtedly been weak, but that does not apply to every sector of the economy. The guy responsible for the article is the finance minister of Poland by the way, and his is not a minority view.

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Edited by: Torq May 23, 10, 09:18 #13

Polonius3:

I heard someone say recently that Poles with an inferiority complex are voting for Komorowski because they have a low level of national self-worth. In their view, Poland must shed its own identity, ape everything in the West and under the guise of privatisation sell off its few remaining assets to foreign capitalists.

That sums it up pretty well (it is also a good description of Civic Platform voters
and "Gazeta Aborcza" readers.)

Polonius3:

Those who feel that a country can always learn from others but
that a 100% copy-cat culture is not necessary, that Poland has values of its own
worth cultivating and that Poland should retain a few strategic industries will be
backing Kaczyński.

Those who like to think for themselves may also vote for Marek Jurek or Janusz
Korwin-Mikke (I used to vote for JKM, but this time I'm voting for Jurek in the 1st
round and for whoever is opposing Komorowski in the 2nd round.)

P.S. Komorowski likes to brag about being a count. It might be true if we remove
one letter from the word.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 23, 10, 09:32 #14
Torq: P.S. Komorowski likes to brag about being a count. It might be true if we remove one letter from the word. Could you give evidence of him having ever bragged about being a count? If not I will assume that you like to tell porky-pies:)

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Edited by: Torq May 23, 10, 09:43 #15

hague1cmaeron:

Could you give evidence of him having ever bragged about being a count? If not I will assume that you like to tell porky-pies:)

He never made a secret out of it - even the wikipedia article says that his grandfather
was a count and Komorowski, no matter if it was for real or just a tongue in cheek, said
on a couple of occasions that he inherited the title - which of course is nonsense as the
March Constitution of 1921 abolished all the privileges and titles of nobility.

It is a running joke in the Civic Platform itself :)

If you're really that interested - just google "hrabia Komorowski" and read the plethora
of articles and comments posted :)

One thing's for sure - I'm not going to vote for the count. That count's not getting
my vote! :D

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May 23, 10, 09:51 #16

Torq:

He never made a secret out of it - even the wikipedia article says that his grandfather
was a count and Komorowski, no matter if it was for real or just a tongue in cheek, said
on a couple of occasions that he inherited the title - which of course is nonsense as the
March Constitution of 1921 abolished all the privileges and titles of nobility.

That is not quite the same as Bragging is it? And could post some evidence for him actually saying that he inherited the title?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	May 23, 10, 09:56 #17
hague1cmaeron: And could post some evidence for him actually saying that he inherited the title? Like what - a voice recording or something? As I said it is a running joke in the Civic Platform itself, so I guess you better ask someone from CP about it (and do it after the elections :)).

POLENGGGsThreads: 5 Posts: 211 Joined: Apr 26, 10 ♂	May 23, 10, 10:28 #18
I suggest you start buying TeDe cd's, and ofcourse start wearing clothes made by his company PLNY . you be sure to be reppin Poland, and for the fact Warsaw , the capital and a Polish city.

kondziorThreads: 2 Posts: 441 Joined: Oct 16, 09 ♂	May 23, 10, 11:22 #19
The sad truth is, there is not even a single candidate I would like to become our President. They are crooks or idiots, all of them, one way or the other. I think I am going to vote for Leper, just for giggles.

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May 23, 10, 11:49 #20

Poland needs sb real, sb who at least has a sense of the Polish national interest. IMHO, Tusk doesn't. Komorowski sums up some of the nothingness here. What has he said regarding the Polish interest? What's his pre-election spiel?

I was drinking with my neighbour for the first time on Friday night. I could see the complexes come out one-by-one and I'd heard it all before (the victim one was the biggest). The Poles are really curious to know what others think about their country to confirm or dispel their misgivings about themselves. I played football today and stormed off the pitch due to their lack of heart. Some young here just lack passion, like their souls have been crushed. I didn't want to have to shout too much at them, I just let it go and formed a bad opinion of them. I discussed it afterwards with the older ones, my friends. They agreed that the young may be the achilles heel in some ways. They can't wait to get their quals and jump ship. To me, if you can be yourself, money takes a backseat.

I prefer to hang out with Poles with charisma and heart. They fit far more with my Scottish ways. If there was ever a Scot that didn't play with heart in football when I was there, I would fire them up. The defeatist attitude of some Poles really gets me down as I know they can be different!!

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May 23, 10, 12:27 #21

Torq:

Those who like to think for themselves may also vote for Marek Jurek or Janusz
Korwin-Mikke (I used to vote for JKM, but this time I'm voting for Jurek in the 1st
round and for whoever is opposing Komorowski in the 2nd round.)

Jurek is a Catholic facist who gives lip service to liberal economics. JKM is the real deal, but he'll never go very far because most people will never be able to give up the nanny state in exchange for long term prosperity.

Seanus,

Poland needs someone to tell Poles that the only people that can change their situation are the people themselves. Get up, and get it done. Poland is responsible for Poland. Poland is now a big boy and is solely responsible for itself. Some people have caught on to that and done really well... quite a few haven't...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 23, 10, 12:35 #22
Convex, amen to that! Komorowski is not that man, IMHO. He is a dry nothingman :(

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Edited by: delphiandomine May 23, 10, 13:05 #23

convex:

Poland needs someone to tell Poles that the only people that can change their situation are the people themselves. Get up, and get it done. Poland is responsible for Poland. Poland is now a big boy and is solely responsible for itself. Some people have caught on to that and done really well... quite a few haven't...

And it's no surprise that many of those that haven't are the ones promoting Kaczynski. Why is it that so many of these "true Polish patriots" are on benefits, while continuing to work on the side?

I'd just like all the Kaczynski supporters to explain one thing to me - how is it in Poland's interests to subsidise inefficient state owned operations?

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May 23, 10, 13:09 #24

Seanus:

Convex, amen to that! Komorowski is not that man, IMHO. He is a dry nothingman :(

I cannot agree with this sentiment, Poland needs a dry President who knows what his role is and does not interfere with the government of the day, by continually blocking its legislative program.

Komorowski is the man for the job, even Kwasniewski though from another party did not interfere as much with the Buzek gov as Kaczynski did with Tusk. Poland cannot afford another Kaczynski.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 23, 10, 13:12 #25
The problem is, Poland hasn't been afforded the entrepreneurial opportunities that the West has. However, the West has tripped itself up through allowing certain people to get too powerful and not curb that. I encourage people to listen to Peter Schiff on how business has been stifled. Poland has a chance to introduce self sufficiency more as they haven't been hit like America has.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq May 23, 10, 13:18 #26

convex:

Jurek is a Catholic facist

He is a Catholic, all right. Who is "a facist" though? A person who judges other
by their face - similarily as "a racist" is someone who judges people by their race?

Well, anyway - in the climate of overwhelming, omnipresent, vomit-inducing political
correctness, a "Catholic facist" sounds like a breeze of fresh air. He has my vote!

delphiandomine:

Should be good for all those Kaczynski fans who are nostalgic
about when the country had nobility and monarchy, then!

Kaczynski fans - mainly PiS voters, are, what I call, Catholic-socialists (of course that
is an oxymoron, but describes them quite well), so I don't think you're right about their
monarchic nostalgies.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 23, 10, 13:23 #27
HC, the reality is that there is a substantial overlap. Theory is theory and I agree with you that there should be a clear delineation of duties. However, look around you. Many people do things that are not in their work contracts, even more so in politics. Take Putin and Medvedev, for example. LK had the power of veto and he used it. Curtailing and snubbing Tusk wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

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May 23, 10, 13:27 #28

Torq:

Catholic-socialists

haha that's a very good description, they are conservative catholic-socialists the worst amalgam..

z_darius:

Yeah, we've had that lesson in economics in the last couple of years.

But you can't deny that workers working in private sector are doing it to keep their job and for their company to succeed, if they fail they get booted. Contrary to public sector where bureaucratization runs rapant and people can just slack off spending their lifes doing nothing. There are pros and cons.

convex:

Jurek is a Catholic facist

I agree and an effing hypocrite on that matter.

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May 23, 10, 13:33 #29

hague1cmaeron:

Seanus
Seanus:
The problem is, Poland hasn't been afforded the entrepreneurial opportunities that the West has. However, the West has tripped itself up through allowing certain people to get too powerful and not curb that. I encourage people to listen to Peter Schiff on how business has been stifled. Poland has a chance to introduce self sufficiency more as they haven't been hit like America has.
Speak of the Devil.

Here is a article of his on the Polish economy.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=533

Apologies to mod for the stick and paste job:)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq May 23, 10, 13:34 #30
frd: I agree and an effing hypocrite on that matter. A hypocrite? How come? Could you, please, elaborate on this? Anyway - in the poll on Forum Krzyż, Marek Jurek is leading with 36.6% of the votes! http://krzyz.katolicy.net/index.php/topic,4165.0.html :-)

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