Lech Kaczyński statue in Warsaw?

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Feb 15, 11, 13:11 #1

Marta Kaczyńska, daughter of the late president Lech Kaczyński, says her father should have a monument built in his honour, as well as a second statue commemorating all 96 victims of the Smolensk air disaster.
“I say this as a daughter, and as a person who loves Poland: my father deserves his own monument for his services to the country; for his long-term, disinterested work for the Republic,” Kaczyńska explained. She also said that the Russian investigation into the crash last April in western Russia - which blamed pilot error for the disaster – failed to reveal the whole truth.
Agree? Disagree? No opinion?
http://www.thenews.pl/

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 13:14 #2
Perhaps a better memorial would be to rename the Polish air force's pilot training centre after LK?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Feb 15, 11, 13:15 #3
As far as I remember this was proposed by Premier Tusk, some time ago. Given that LK was a president who died in office, it would be a surprise if they didn't build something. A dog bites man story.

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Edited by: Olaf Feb 15, 11, 13:24 #4

Obviously she's biased. But she can have an opinion of course. Best if she founded the statue and placed it in her own garden; anyone has such a right. In meantime, there are 8 (eight) movies made or being made at the moment about the plane accident. They can be of little factual value since not all the facts and aspects are yet known about the reasons of this plane crash.
Personally I am rather for statues of significant people in history that have been confirmed by history and time that they were worthy of a statue and bigger commemoration. Speaking bluntly, dying in a plane crash - as tragic as it is of course - is not enough to get a statue of your own. And Kaczynski's deeds before as the president and earlier are too controversial and don't carry that "factor" which I would expect from a real statesman and historical figure. Maybe it is enough that he is buried at the Wawel Castle, among kings and other great people of Poland in a nice marble tomb [which by the way has incorrect inscription]. So what's a man gotta do to get numerous streets and roundabouts and schools named by his name, memorial plaques and burial in the most prestigious place in the country and prospective monument?

Polonius3:

a monument built in his honour, as well as a second statue commemorating all 96 victims

Among those 96 victims there were people who deserved a statue a bit more I think. He should wait in line for a statue, there is no rush whatsoever with statues, isn't it right?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Feb 15, 11, 13:50 #5
What's the incorrect inscription? I know intiially they left out the hyphen between Kaczyńska's maiden and married name, but that has since been corrected.

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Edited by: jonni Feb 15, 11, 13:56 #6

Olaf:

there is no rush whatsoever with statues, isn't it right?

Exactly. Better to do a good one than a quick one.

But statue or monument? A monument would be better. Marszal Pilsudski looks great in his uniform astride a horse, but LK in a lounge suit? No.

And statues representing someone are much harder to make - there are so many bad ones like the statue of JPII in the rynek at Lowicz, which if you see it from a particular angle looks like he's been surprised while tiptoe-ing out of somewhere.

Better maybe a different type of memorial.

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Feb 15, 11, 14:01 #7
Polonius3: What's the incorrect inscription? Yes, I meant the hyphen as it should be when someone in Poland decides to have double name. Just checked it - it has been corrected. What a shame it was. jonni: Better maybe a different type of memorial. Yes, he already has his name given to school and other things I mentioned...

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 14:46 #8
If they do create such a statue they should sculpt him as a child. His adult form lacked classical proportions.

JaneDoeThreads: 7 Posts: 237 Joined: Sep 26, 08 ♂	Feb 15, 11, 15:09 #9
Polonius3: Agree? Disagree? No opinion? Maybe they should build something like a statue of Lenin in Krakow once was. ;)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Feb 15, 11, 15:40 #10
A theory of Lech Kaczynski’s shared guilt is still a probable version of events and until this is disproved, no monument in his honour should be built. I am also in total agreement with Olaf when he says, "Among those 96 victims there were people who deserved a statue a bit more I think."

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Feb 15, 11, 15:58 #11
Polonius3: She also said that the Russian investigation into the crash last April in western Russia - which blamed pilot error for the disaster – failed to reveal the whole truth. if she knows that the investigation didn't reveal the whole truth it might be an idea for her to reveal that extra bit of truth we don't know about. monuments/statues will no doubt be popping up everywhere.

jablkoThreads: - Posts: 156 Joined: Jul 13, 10 ♂	Feb 15, 11, 16:03 #12
He doesn't deserve monument. It's enough that he got placed in Wawel and even that was too much in my opinion. He didn't really do anything special for Poland

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Feb 15, 11, 16:16 #13

Wroclaw:

monuments/statues will no doubt be popping up everywhere.

You know, there is a huge plain around the Giant Geesus in Swiebodzin - plenty of space to erect statues, even giant ones...
There's this weird rush to put the late president to Wawel, to make statues, soon he'll be claimed for beatification ( - who wants to bet it's going to happen sooner or later?). And if it turns out that there was some fault for the plane crass on his side too - would president Kaczynski be removed in infamation from Wawel? I don't think so and I don't think this ever happened before. And as I mentioned, people of much greater positive input to the history waited at least a few years before they were moved to Wawel (Adam Mickiewicz for instance). Same is with statues.

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Feb 15, 11, 16:34 #14

Olaf:

There's this weird rush to put the late president to Wawel

What's weird with a funeral in a timely manner?

Olaf:

people of much greater positive input to the history waited at least a few years before they were moved to Wawel (Adam Mickiewicz for instance).

You can't compare those two cases at all. Mickiewicz died in Istanbul, was buried in Paris first because that's where he lived and was moved to Wawel some 35 years (I'm too lazy to research) after death. Plus his burial in Wawel required agreement from occupying Austrians. Two totally different situations.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 16:54 #15
Bzibzioh: What's weird with a funeral in a timely manner? I doubt you'd understand, being thouands of miles away. The fact that a politically biased Cardinal took the decision to act unilaterally on behalf of the Polish people without consensus says it all.

JaneDoeThreads: 7 Posts: 237 Joined: Sep 26, 08 ♂	Feb 15, 11, 16:58 #16
Bzibzioh: What's weird with a funeral in a timely manner? You're missing the point, but there was a discussion about his burial here aldeady.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 17:13 #17
JaneDoe: You're missing the point I don't think so. delphiandomine: The fact that a politically biased Cardinal took the decision to act unilaterally on behalf of the Polish people without consensus says it all. That's the beauty of being an Arch-bishop of Kraków. Church is not a democracy.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 17:15 #18
Bzibzioh: That's the beauty of being an Arch-bishop of Kraków. Church is not a democracy. From what I can see, Wawel doesn't belong to the Church, or anyone - it belongs to the people.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 17:23 #19
delphiandomine: From what I can see, Wawel doesn't belong to the Church, or anyone - it belongs to the people. Makes one wonder: what else are you totally ignorant about? But did that ever prevented you from forming an opinion? Of course not.

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Feb 15, 11, 18:10 #20

Polonius3:

“I say this as a daughter, and as a person who loves Poland: my father deserves his own monument for his services to the country; for his long-term, disinterested work for the Republic,”

First, 'selfless' is a better translation of 'bezinteresowy' than is 'disinterested'.

Second, I don't think a personal monument is especially called for. It might be had his nitwit brother not sqandered the opportunity for creating a positive national unity with his half-baked witch hunts. But I don't want Jaroslaw to have more opportunities to use his brother's corpse for political gain. It's an ugly spectacle and the sooner it's ended the better.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 15, 11, 18:18 #21
mafketis: First, 'selfless' is a better translation of 'bezinteresowy' than is 'disinterested'. Generally you'd be right but the duck boys are/were all about doing what is best for them and are/were entirely disinterested in doing what was best for Poland.

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 983 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: enkidu Feb 15, 11, 18:35 #22
This is a hard task to project a monument for somebody whose greatest achievement is a sudden death in the plane crash. But some projects exist. or or

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Feb 16, 11, 03:13 #23

enkidu:

But some projects exist.

That is simply revolting, flat and cheap! Well, except last one which is kind of funny.
I'm surprised why people in their political choices prefer those who are into politics to make some monies over those who want to do something?
Then I remember - television, mock democracy and lack of the elite !

Harry:

best for Poland.

would be to behead you!

I don't think that in nowadays, there should be build statues for politicians! Even dead ones, sure after some time passes and there is general consensus to do so, maybe then, but forcing down the people throats heroic images to score a point is silly and low.
Well, maybe there is group of people who genuinely believe that JK deserves statue, but they should be more mature, sensitive and classy.
I think that the President's daughter should be more restrain, but I think that she was motiveted by a pressure applied by her new boyfriend/husband, which is simply striving to get himself position in Poland's politics!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 16, 11, 09:21 #24
Ironside: would be to behead you! How surprising to see you of all people representing the Polish taliban. Ironside: she was motiveted by a pressure applied by her new boyfriend/husband Seeing as her grandfather was a traitor, her uncle is Poland's biggest hypocrite and her father was an utter cock, it is rather more likely that she said it because she is genetically predisposed to be a twat.

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Feb 16, 11, 10:30 #25

Bzibzioh:

What's weird with a funeral in a timely manner?

As far as I read many of the notable figures that are now at Wawel were initially buried elsewhere, and at least several years later were deicided to be put there.

Bzibzioh:

Two totally different situations.

Ok. But tell me please what was the rush in Kaczynski's case if the investigations hadn't even been finished and it could/can as well turn out that he was pressuring the pilots which contributed to the crash. If it is truth - which we cannot say by now - then putting him already at Wawel is a bit hasty, isn't it? Mickiewicz is just one example among many.

Bzibzioh:

What's weird with a funeral in a timely manner?

Did I or anyone suggest anywhere not to bury him at all?! :D His family tomb is in Powązki I guess, which is second most honourable place for eternal rest. Why not there, with his family? Also he comes from Gdańsk - why not his hometown? Krakow - he never had anything to do with this city so this idea is even more weird. He was not king either.

delphiandomine:

Wawel doesn't belong to the Church, or anyone - it belongs to the people.

True. But unfortunately the Church administers the chapel [or church, whatever] there and the tombs and the sneaky weasel Dziwisz waas caught lying two times about the case of whose idea it was. Nice example...

Harry:

you of all people representing the Polish taliban.

Hahahahah:)

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 16, 11, 12:14 #26
Bzibzioh: Makes one wonder: what else are you totally ignorant about? I do wonder what some random thousands of kilometres away from Poland knows about Polish affairs and what they could possibly know what the people want.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Feb 16, 11, 12:49 #27
Harry: How surprising to see you of all people representing the Polish taliban. Another illogical diatribe from Harry is not surprising at all. Olaf: Hahahahah:) You ARE a giggling twit, ha!

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Feb 16, 11, 13:04 #28

Harry:

Seeing as her grandfather was a traitor, her uncle is Poland's biggest hypocrite and her father was an utter cock, it is rather more likely that she said it because she is genetically predisposed to be a twat.

You made me laugh :D
Her husband is a complete twat as well, so they all fit together nicely.

As for the statue, Wawel was more then enough for this mediocre president. I strongly object to spending the taxpayers' money on a statue for him!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Feb 16, 11, 13:24 #29
landora: I strongly object to spending the taxpayers' money on a statue for him! How about spending taxpayers money to support parties? Or sending soldiers to Afghanistan and all? Wasting all taxes on different dummy projects and to pay growing number of bureaucrats ? You are not bothered at all by that ?

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Feb 16, 11, 14:24 #30

Ironside:

giggling

Nope. For giggling I'd write hihihihi and for LOLing I write hahahah. And for Christmas and hookers I call: hohoho!

Ironside:

twit

Nice to meet ya! Howdy!

Ironside:

Harry:
How surprising to see you of all people representing the Polish taliban.

Another illogical diatribe from Harry is not surprising at all.

This was logical actually. You are a taliban, ortodox, no sense of humor and threatening to behead people. Well, we can just hope you are the kind that does suicide bombing:D

Ironside, maybe you should just remove iron from your diet as it obviously does you wrong.

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