Let us save Poland. Suggestions

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Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 17:00 #1

This is discussion for all who love Poland. We should exchange opinions regarding situation of Poland, that is, as it is obvious, very serious.

This with EU moving in wrong direction. NATO is story for itself. Membership in NATO may harm Poland same way as Poland isn`t part of NATO. Its just one very dangerous adventure. Economy of Poland? Social sphere? Children? Level of education? Reduced number of population? Poverty of population? Very bad, very bad

Then, what is the status of media in Poland, how are Poles informed? Journalism in Poland? Who controls media, etc, etc, etc question.

So, let us talk. Let us help. Let us save Poland

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Sep 20, 11, 17:08 #2

Crow what do you think would happend to Poland if it was not part of EU and Nato? Do you think Russia would befriend Poland?

Russia would facerape Poland and turn it into a puppet state. Just look what happend to Ukraine and Belarus. During the past 20 years Polands economi have improved significant while the Ukrainian and Belarusian economi have had a really rough time the past 20 years.

I feel sorry for Serbia etc. But you had brother Russia to help you and look where he got you.

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Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 17:16 #3

Do you think Russia would befriend Poland?

Russia would facerape Poland and turn it into a puppet state.

why do you ask me when you presenting the answer?

Just look what happend to Ukraine and Belarus.

What?

During the past 20 years Polands economi have improved significant while the Ukrainian and Belarusian economi have had a really rough time the past 20 years.

good joke. Why then population abandoning Poland?

I feel sorry for Serbia etc. But you had brother Russia to help you and look where he got you.

Russia isn`t problem. We got from Russia what we expected to get. Problem is official Poland. Official Poland failed.

and, don`t feel sorry for Serbia. Considering how powerful foes we have, we goes pretty well actually.

Crow what do you think would happend to Poland if it was not part of EU and Nato?

If Poland didn`t enter NATO and EU Poland would be most likely destroyed by NATO and EU. But, Poland was lucky. Now is time for Poland to escape from those conglomerates while there is still time left.

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Sep 20, 11, 17:27 #4

why do you ask me when you presenting the answer?

Simply because i felt like it

What?

Well Ukraine and Belarus choose to stay with Russia the past 20 years. While Poland choose EU and Nato and is prospering.

good joke. Why then population abandoning Poland?

It takes a while to catch up after brother Russia embraced Poland into the Communist sphere.

Russia isn`t problem. We got from Russia what we expected to get. Problem is official Poland. Official Poland failed.

Tito was a puppet to Russia and played the "neutral" game just as Ukraine tries to do today. During the civil war Serbia put their faith to Russia, but Russia looked the other way and screwed you.

If Poland didn`t enter NATO and EU Poland would be most likely destroyed by NATO and EU. But, Poland was lucky. Now is time for Poland to escape from those conglomerates while there is still time left.

I dont think so...

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Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 17:41 #5

Well Ukraine and Belarus choose to stay with Russia

he, he. Good joke. tell that to Ukrainians.

or you can tell it to the Byelorussians as well. You know what would they tell you on that? they would tell you that they just know what they can expect from Russia and that from time to time Russia surprised them with some nice things. In the same time, people in both countries- in Ukraine and in Belarus think very very bad about EU and NATO after they sow what happened to Yugoslavia and Serbia

While Poland choose EU and Nato and is prospering.

This is good joke, too.

People in Serbia has one good proverb: `Granny paid money to get chance to dance and now wants to pay even more to stop to dance.`

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Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 17:51 #6

It takes a while to catch up after brother Russia embraced Poland into the Communist sphere.

first of all, Russians and Soviets aren`t same. You should know that Russians also suffered under the soviet/communist delusion

Second and most important. Why Poles let soviets (Warsaw pact) to happen in Poland? They tried in Serbia/Yugoslavia but they failed. We said them NO.

But, we also failed in the trap of communism in general. But, we don`t blame Russians for that. We trusted to France and Britain and they collaborated with communists during WWII and then communism prevailed in Yugoslavia.

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Sep 20, 11, 17:56 #7

If Poland didn`t enter NATO and EU Poland would be most likely destroyed by NATO and EU. But, Poland was lucky. Now is time for Poland to escape from those conglomerates while there is still time left.

Crow. This is probably true.
And the second Poland leaves NATO we will be looked down on just like USSR times.
Poland was backwards because of Commies, WWII, 3partitions, millions of deaths, etc.

I hate NATO and EU believe me but Polands other choices arent much better at this moment.
Slavic and Eastern European nations GDPs are still tiny.
Russia a superpower/power (whatever you choose) has tons of natural resources yet
they dont have basic roads and cars for the people. Their planes are falling from the sky.

People go where there is jobs and $$$. Thats why many Poles are in Britain for example.

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Sep 20, 11, 18:08 #8

I hate NATO and EU believe me but Polands other choices arent much better at this moment.

i am aware of it. Poland has absolutely negative choices to choose. Mistake is to stay, mistake is to go out. Tragic situation

Russia a superpower/power (whatever you choose) has tons of natural resources yet
they dont have basic roads and cars for the people. Their planes are falling from the sky.

to tell you frankly, if Russian needs Serbians to protect them Russians are desperate. Tragic situation

People go where there is jobs and $$$. Thats why many Poles are in Britain for example.

i know that. But, after some great flood in Britain, Poland would looks more attractive to Poles who are now in Britain.

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Sep 20, 11, 18:15 #9

Poland's GDP is said to be steadily rising so I don't think there is cause for alarm overall. As for those in poverty, well, other countries have this too and they don't need to be rescued so directly. Poles have learned to be rugged and live through hard times, Crow, it's not like they are fish out of water here.

As for education, the government hasn't completely got its act together but we live in an age where many have the tools/resources to educate themselves on whatever topic they choose. More important is job creation, to allow people to apply what their education has taught them. All too often, undergraduates come through their education to be hit with a harsh job reality. They are told what to study, to prepare for etc etc and then boom, nothing at the end of it. If there is sth at the end of it, they often perceive it as underpaid and unrewarding. Again, not only Polish. It's particularly evident in Scotland.

That's enough for now.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 18:18 #10
Polish journalism failed. Poles aren`t informed. That`s why they are happy

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 18:24 #11
Polish journalism failed. Poles aren`t informed. That`s why they are happy Informed about what? EU and Nato is the only option atm.

cheesymacThreads: 5 Posts: 85 Joined: May 16, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 20, 11, 18:57 #12
kick the africans out... honestly... they will start dealing drugs here, like the rest of the EU

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 19:23 #13
It depends what you mean by informed. Crow, it's not a blanket thing with NATO. As you should be aware, many Poles reject NATO but their govt will not budge so long as the likes of Sikorski is pulling strings. To say Poles "aren't informed" is rather harsh but I you were referring to the NATO stance.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Edited by: David_18 Sep 20, 11, 19:37 #14
many Poles reject NATO but their govt will not budge so long as the likes of Sikorski is pulling strings. What are you trying to say? Is Nato good or bad? you're always so neutral in everything you write. Make up your MIND :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 19:39 #15
It's VERY clear what I was saying, David. Where is the neutrality? I'm not a black and white thinker but I think much of what NATO has done has been bad. In Libya for oil and they raped Yugoslavia to impose privatisation&debt measures.

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Sep 20, 11, 19:47 #16

I think much of what NATO has done has been bad. In Libya for oil and they raped Yugoslavia to impose privatisation&debt measures.

sadly it will not be the end. colonialism, national interests, egos all that together is a very dangerous mixture. since the leader is giving the tone it is hardly to imagine that some nations within nato will seriously oppose.
maybe they do it here and there but still then, they have to make compromises to 'please the master'. ;)

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Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 20:00 #17

EU and Nato is the only option atm.

See, Serbian government also constantly repeating to the people: `EU is only option, EU is only option.....` (at least they don`t BS about NATO. Well, not that much, at least not for now)

It depends what you mean by informed.

Informed about what?

Simple. People have right on information, to be informed. About anything. Without information people can`t understand what`s going on and manipulation with people is more probable.

But, i understand. Informed people may complicate and, those who controls media tend to avoid that.

To say Poles "aren't informed" is rather harsh but I you were referring to the NATO stance.

NATO isn`t only evil that works against Poland from outside and from within.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 20, 11, 20:25 #18
Visegrad Group as military/economic alliance around Poland, neutral on other military alliances, is only thing that may save Poland. It would be hard but, at least there is chance.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 22:09 #19
Crow, quite a few Poles are very well-informed people. Such people can really push the country forward in their own way. Really, who is better placed to comment on this matter, me or you?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 20, 11, 22:16 #20
Really, who is better placed to comment on this matter, me or you? you, of course, my virtual friend.

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Sep 20, 11, 22:22 #21

Then let me tell you that many here are very smart people. Some need a guiding hand. On that point, you are right. An American who came here commented on how easy it was to order them around and how they lacked direction.

The main way to save Poland is to get more positive people in to open their eyes to what they have and what they can do. Too many Poles are caught in a pessimistic rut and the last economic crisis didn't help. However, many have potential and, by and large, Poles enjoy one another's company. Helping them cement this Polishness by waking them up to certain realities would really bring them forward.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,397 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 22:51 #22
=Crow]Let us save Poland Please, no. I don`t want to be saved. I want things to stay as they are. I love my country, I don`t want it to be saved. We suffered enough in the past. More than other nations. Can`t we have a little peace and quiet for a while? Say, one century?

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,856 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 23:03 #23
Too many Poles are caught in a pessimistic rut and the last economic crisis didn't help. However, many have potential and, by and large, Poles enjoy one another's company. Helping them cement this Polishness by waking them up to certain realities would really bring them forward. i would suggest let this guiding hand be slavic. any other option is fatal imo. ;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 23:06 #24
I'm not Slavic yet I help :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 23:35 #25
They are not Africans. Crow clearly believes Poland is a future target for evil deeds.

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Sep 21, 11, 00:45 #26

I have a feeling that someone still thinks that Polish people are ones who are living in wooden houses with no electricity and these who have it much be veeeery rich ;)

Of course, poverty exists, but show me at least one country with no single family living in poor conditions. It is impossible to find one.
I strongly support our EU accession, because without that we would never develop so fast. We have a lot of money from EU.
I don't support NATO that much, but NATO itself is not a problem for me ;)

About journalism - media in Poland are controlled by media groups mostly, Polish people are informed very well (if we don't want to use one channel we can switch to another one, every "general" channel has its own news services). We also have plenty of daily newspapers and magazines.

I am proud of my country, I think we are modern Europeans, we have a lot of people with higher education and they want to learn more (like me, with higher education, but working and studying for another degree) :) Younger people are really Western, older - more Eastern European. We have our own values, our traditions, but every country has them.

To sum up, let us stay as we are now :)

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Sep 21, 11, 02:12 #27

I am proud of my country, I think we are modern Europeans, we have a lot of people with higher education and they want to learn more (like me, with higher education, but working and studying for another degree) :) Younger people are really Western, older - more Eastern European. We have our own values, our traditions, but every country has them.

To sum up, let us stay as we are now :)

na zdrowie!

loc_kanikaThreads: - Posts: 28 Joined: Jun 16, 11 ♀	Sep 21, 11, 11:06 #28
Did you guys watched this- The Investors shift focus to Poland debt talks! http://liveoncampus.com/wire/show/3053974 European equities look set to open higher in early trade- this will def. lead to progress!

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 21, 11, 16:51 #29
this will def. lead to progress! you are classical example of naive woman. Don`t you see... Poland is like a child with divorced parents. From one side Slavic world, from the other side western Europe and they compete who would offer more to Poland. Just, in one moment Poland would grow up and competition may become nasty.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,397 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Sep 21, 11, 21:47 #30
=Seanus] evil deeds. Mistake!!! Evil Deads

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