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Lithuanians hate Poles?


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delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 10, 12, 14:53    #91
BBman:
ohhh look here we have another limey expert - this time one that specializes in lithuania, but doesnt live there nor has he ever. I lived and worked in poland for a few years and i can say that there is not that much discrimination. theres far more discrimination in lithuania vs poles and russians than in poland vs lithuanians.


Oh look, we have another North American who failed in Poland and has a big chip on his shoulder as a result.

Did you ever live/work in a Lithuanian gmina? Did you ever have contact with the Lithuanian minority? Naaaaw. Didn't think so.

As for "more discrimination in Lithuania" - really? Based on what? Your local "Polonia Kielbasa Pierogies" newspaper doesn't count.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 10, 12, 17:18    #92
delphiandomine:
Did you ever live/work in a Lithuanian gmina? Did you ever have contact with the Lithuanian minority? Naaaaw. Didn't think so.

Asking a forum member questions and then immediately answering for him.....This seems like the behavior of someone who is losing his mind or may have already lost it.
delphiandomine:
Your local "Polonia Kielbasa Pierogies" newspaper doesn't count.

Believing in imaginary newspapers isn't a good sign either.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 10, 12, 17:31    #93
gumishu:
this fragment is part of the Polish wikipedia entry on Lithuanisation (Litwinizacja)

So in other words it is pretty much guaranteed to be entirely objective, utterly unbiased and completely reliable.
piktoonisThreads: -
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 1, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 12, 17:32    #94
Des Essientes:
Believing in imaginary newspapers isn't a good sign either.


I guess he meant local yellow press :D
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 12, 17:32    #95
Harry:
gumishu:
this fragment is part of the Polish wikipedia entry on Lithuanisation (Litwinizacja)

So in other words it is pretty much guaranteed to be entirely objective, utterly unbiased and completely reliable.


and according to you it is completely made-up yeah, even if this is just 50 per cent of truth in it it is still a serious thing
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 10, 12, 17:35    #96
gumishu:
and according to you it is completely made-up yeah, even if this is just 50 per cent of truth in it it is still a serious thing

I wouldn't say it is completely made-up, but given how a fair bit of the English-language stuff about Polish history is getting so bad (despite both 'sides' being able to contribute) and how so few Lithuanians speak Polish, the text is unlikely to present a neutral viewpoint or use particularly reliable sources (although I haven't checked the sources).
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 12, 20:14    #97
Harry:
I wouldn't say it is completely made-up, but given how a fair bit of the English-language stuff about Polish history is getting so bad (despite both 'sides' being able to contribute) and how so few Lithuanians speak Polish, the text is unlikely to present a neutral viewpoint or use particularly reliable sources (although I haven't checked the sour

[imgs=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/qB7JF0s3uEI/default.jpg][/imgs]

http://kurierwilenski.lt/2011/08/18/europejska-fundacja-praw-czlowieka -przeciwko-narastajacej-fali-nienawisci-w-internecie-na-litwie/
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 10, 12, 20:30    #98
Ironside:
http://kurierwilenski.lt/2011/08/18/europejska-fundacja-praw-czl owieka -przeciwko-narastajacej-fali-nienawisci-w-internecie-na-litwie/

If you are aware that promoting race hate is illegal, why do you post in the way that you do?
piktoonisThreads: -
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 1, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 12, 20:48    #99
Ironside, stop quoting Kurier Wilenski. This "newspaper" prints what AWPL says, and that has too much propaganda.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 10, 12, 20:54    #100
Harry:
If you are aware that promoting race hate is illegal, why do you post in the way that you do?

Where I'm prompting race hate? - are you posting again on booze?

piktoonis:
and that has too much propaganda.

that a point of view no propaganda
NecroshadeThreads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 11, 12 ♂ 		 Apr 11, 12, 19:14    #101
Or Lithuania should accept loss of the territories and being friendly instead of setting herself on grabbing the land that had about 3% of Lithuanian.
That would make even more sense !

Oh yeah losing your ancient capital and half of your people's homeland to a foreigner and accepting it NO! Thanking them for it is completely sensible. Afterall there is no way that the people there have been influenced by Poland over centuries and are actually Lithuanians genetically that have been damaged by centuries of occupation. I wonder if the roles were reversed would Poland react like this? Say "yeah they took our capital and half our country, but that is acceptable because of a survey". I don't remember any of us (Lithuanians or Poles) just accepting Russian Empire as the new government when the Commonwealth was split. Maybe you just choose to ignore that this is a time when Lithuania just became free from Russia and now they should be happy to just give themselves over to Poland instead, so swap one overlord for another is a great solution in your eyes I guess.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 11, 12, 20:38    #102
Necroshade:
Oh yeah losing your ancient capital and half of your people's homeland to a foreigner and accepting it NO

Use the quote function next time.
That is what I'm talking about , you are so wrong on so many levels that I will came back to answer this one latter.
Two issues, it wasn't YOUR capital and they weren't foreigners !Let it sink in !
That is an example of your history - back of fiction mixed with BS and wishful thinking !
Don't blame you but it is time to think for yourself !
NecroshadeThreads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 11, 12 ♂ 		 Apr 17, 12, 18:09    #103
Wasn't our capital? Really? So Vilnius established by Grand Duke Gediminas before Lithuania even began associating with Poland and made it the Lithuanian STATE CAPITAL makes it not Lithuania's capital yeah that makes perfect sense. So Poland is not a foreign country to a Lithuanian because everyone knows we are EXACTLY the same in every shape and form, language, culture, tradition, genetics it is all exactly the same.

The territory included Vilnius, the historical capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Let that sink in :)
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,397
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Apr 17, 12, 20:41    #104
Polonius3:
Lithuanians hate Poles?



If they do, they are ungrateful. Poland saved their miserable assses for a few centuries. If not for Poland`s war effort, they would have been conquered by Russians in 16 century and today they would be fully russianised like Eastern Ukrainians.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 17, 12, 22:17    #105
In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,397
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Apr 17, 12, 22:47    #106
peterweg:
In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.


:):):):):)

Sorry....

OK, what do you mean???
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 17, 12, 23:33    #107
peterweg:
In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.

I'm laughing now :D well actually is a quite sad, !
Necroshade:
by Grand Duke Gediminas befo

In the medieval times there were no one capital, there were few castles used by a ruler. Wilno as a town and a city is an creation Polish and Lithuanian union.
Kazimerz Jagielonczyk made Wilno into his capital.
Necroshade:
the Lithuanian STATE

There were not Lithuanian state but Grand Duchy of Lithuania a country multi-ethnic from the start to the end! Ethnic ( as you understand them today) Lithuanians were always minority.
Necroshade:
So Poland is not a foreign country to a Lithuanian because everyone knows we are EXACTLY the same in every shape and form, language, culture, tradition, genetics it is all exactly the same.

No because constitutions from 1791 accepted by both deputies and senators from the Crown and Grand Duchy of Lithuania made from Poland and Lithuania a one country !
Necroshade:
The territory included Vilnius, the historical capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Let that sink in :)

Keep it but give all right and privileges to the Poles living there or your chauvinistic, narrow-minded and annoying attitude will cost
your

historical capital. Warsaw population 3mln people Lithuanian about 3,5 mln - let it Sink in!
(Bloody Samogitians from their backwoods ! )
piktoonisThreads: -
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 1, 11 ♂ 		 Apr 18, 12, 01:58    #108
Ironside:
Wilno as a town and a city is an creation Polish and Lithuanian union.


Go get some history book and read when was Vilnius founded and when lithuanian-polish relations began.
jon357Threads: -
Posts: 621
Joined: Mar 15, 12  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Apr 18, 12, 03:07    #109
Ironside:
azimerz Jagielonczyk

Ironside:
Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Ironside:
1791

That isn't any basis for today's borders.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 18, 12, 08:46    #110
pawian:
OK, what do you mean???


Its very easy to think you are doing a country a 'favour' but they probably don't see it that way. The Russians and Germans could claim that they both saved Poland from each other, but would Poles see it that way?
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,397
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: pawian  Apr 18, 12, 22:02    #111
peterweg:
Its very easy to think you are doing a country a 'favour' but they probably don't see it that way. The Russians and Germans could claim that they both saved Poland from each other, but would Poles see it that way?



There is sth wrong with your thinking.

When exactly did Germans save Poland from Russians so that Poles should be grateful? ???????

That is why, I still don`t understand this statement of yours:

peterweg:
In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.


You need to elaborate.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 18, 12, 23:24    #112
piktoonis:
Go get some history book and read when was Vilnius founded

Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.
jon357:
That isn't any basis for today's borders.


The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !
jon357Threads: -
Posts: 621
Joined: Mar 15, 12  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: jon357  Apr 18, 12, 23:59    #113
Ironside:
Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.

I should think the Vilnius of Kazimierz Jagiellonczyk wasn't exactly Dubai.
Ironside:
The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !

You mean the decision of what was at that time the lawful government of Lithuania with the assent of the lawful government of Poland.

Mind you, perhaps you have a point. Why not give back Breslau, Oppeln and Stettin to Germany, since
Ironside:
The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 19, 12, 00:44    #114
jon357:
I should think the Vilnius of Kazimierz Jagiellonczyk wasn't exactly Dubai.

No there were only few muslim!
jon357:
ou mean the decision of what was at that time the lawful government of Lithuania with the assent of the lawful government of Poland.

You should reconsider your understanding of lawful because as it stands now you are contesting the Novembers Tribunal.
jon357:
Mind you, perhaps you have a point.

I miss your point here ! We are talking about discrimination against minority in Lithuania. I would think that for once you would agree with me but obviously few Poles aren't noble enough minority to be defended.
jon357Threads: -
Posts: 621
Joined: Mar 15, 12  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Apr 19, 12, 00:46    #115
Ironside:
No there were only few muslim!

And not as many Poles either.
Ironside:
but obviously few Poles aren't noble enough minority to be defended.

The way to defend a group of people is not to attack the territorial integrity and even the very capital of the country they are in.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 19, 12, 12:19    #116
jon357:
And not as many Poles either.

Noticeable community already.
jon357:
The way to defend a group of people is not to attack the territorial integrity and even the very capital of the country they are in.

Generally speaking you are right but here we are faced with specific circumstances and very specific attitudes.
jon357Threads: -
Posts: 621
Joined: Mar 15, 12  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Apr 19, 12, 13:45    #117
Ironside:
Noticeable community already.

But not, however, a majority identifying as Poles.
Ironside:
we are faced with specific circumstances and very specific attitudes

Those circumstances are two neighbouring countries with some shared history who are both in the EU. If the UK and Ireland can get on without rancour, so can Poland and Lithuania.
NecroshadeThreads: -
Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 11, 12 ♂ 		Edited by: Necroshade  Apr 20, 12, 00:53    #118
Grateful to Poland? Protected Lithuania? Oh btw WE wanted to break the union in January 1429 Vytautas already had received the title of King of Lithuania with the backing of Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor, but the envoys who were transporting the crown were stopped by POLISH magnates in autumn of 1430. Another crown was sent, but Vytautas died in the Trakai Island Castle several days before it reached Lithuania. If you wanna talk later the then King of the Lith/Pol saw the bigger picture which you are missing Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, seeing the threat to Lithuania and eventually to Poland made the union possible so please don't you dare declare that Lithuania is to blame for the destruction of our nations and that we should be grateful for losing our independence to the point that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth became simply Poland. Anyway everyone here should know that the Commonwealth fell because it destroyed itself from the inside believing at one point that being weak meant that nobody would attack it.

Russianised? That is just laughable you do realise that unlike Poland or Ruthenians Lithuanians are not slavic people and do not share the same language. That being said the Russians tried to russify us for as long as they have tried to russify you a nation much closer to Russia in terms of language which would be the bridge into inflicting a different culture. The fact is that Russians sent many colonists to Lithuania but they all failed and their failure is seen even today as Russian minorities are spread out all over Lithuania but are even smaller than the amount of Poles shocking isnt it considering that we have only been independent for roughly 20 years. So tell me if they could not silence our nationalism over the course of over a century and the effects of it were this small after additional half a century occupation then what would another century or even 2 centuries do? Ukrainians and Belarussians were in the Commonwealth and under Lithuania for much longer than they were under Russia yet they remained true to their identities. You might say that language is not important as Lithuanian nobility was Polanised over time that is true but the circumstances were different as becoming more Polish brought benefits to them but note that the peasants never became Polanised as it brought no benefit to them. Under Russia the same principle applies just that there is no benefit on either side. Besides Russia heavily cencored anything that would remind Lithuanians of what Lithuania is and it still didnt work.
piktoonisThreads: -
Posts: 96
Joined: Apr 1, 11 ♂ 		 Apr 20, 12, 08:47    #119
Ironside:
Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.


Few huts? By middle 14th century, Vilnius already was a big city and a capital. How old are you to call me "son"?

Ironside:
We are talking about discrimination against minority in Lithuania


Which is nothing but a propaganda

Ironside:
Noticeable community already


There were no poles until late 16th century.
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Apr 20, 12, 14:24    #120
jon357:
But not, however, a majority identifying as Poles.

Neither were Lithuanian!! Anyway at the time that would be subject of the Crown, not Poles !
jon357:
Those circumstances are two neighbouring countries with some shared history who are both in the EU. If the UK and Ireland can get on without rancour, so can Poland and Lithuania.

I don't care about shared history they do not respect it much and change it to suit their fantasies. I care about Poles in this supposedly EU country. Yet nobody is doing anything about that.
I would like to know why ?

Necroshade:
Grateful to Poland? Protected Lithuania?

Clutching at straw ? Get real ! Without Poland your Duchy wouldn't had lasted a decade! I really wish that Poland choose Piast from Warsaw as a King.
However wishful thinking and past misgivings are not important here. The facts and history is as it is and in that Poland supported the Grand Duchy very existence.
piktoonis:
Few huts? By middle 14th century, Vilnius already was a big city and a capital.

eh? figuratively speaking, a big city ? I see you are speaking figuratively also.
The point is Wilno started to develop when Poland and Duchy enjoyed peace and trade, not before !
piktoonis:
Which is nothing but a propaganda

We already heard your lies. Fact in 1930' that wouldn't be called discrimination but we have 2012 .
piktoonis:
There were no poles until late 16th century.

Is that is extract from the Fairy Stories you call the Lithuanian history books. hahah!

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