Will many Poles migrate to Germany in May 2011 (after opening labor market)?

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Nov 19, 10, 18:06 #1
... when its labor market opens for them? Is it gonna be disastrous for Poland's situation?

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Nov 19, 10, 18:08 #2
what's happening in May over there?

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Edited by: pgtx Nov 19, 10, 18:11 #3
all the EU 15 must open their labor markets by May 2011... so will Germany...

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 18:21 #4
pgtx: Will many Poles migrate to Germany in May 2011... I'm hoping many from Western Europe will come back to Poland, who's gonna be left old people?

Marynka11Threads: 8 Posts: 1,447 Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀	Nov 19, 10, 18:23 #5
Despite the labor regulations many millions Pols work already there illegally. Even if more Poles leave, I think they will be the less educated ones. Germans are not so eager to hire foreigners in white collar jobs. And with all the "Failure of Multi-Kulti" propaganda it might really be not the best place to emmigrate to right now anyway.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 19, 10, 18:26 #6
I'm taking BBs job in 2011.

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Nov 19, 10, 18:26 #7
I'm sure it's going to be alright. People will work in Germany and spend money in Poland, Stuff will even up after a few years. I think it's a great idea.

A JThreads: 19 Posts: 4,639 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 18:28 #8
Marynka11: And with all the "Failure of Multi-Kulti" propaganda it might really be not the best place to emmigrate to right now anyway. I really think the majority of Germany is pretty sensible and civilized, but I suspect that the Germans who belong to working-class aren't too happy with all this labour-migration. (And I can't say I blame them!)

Marynka11Threads: 8 Posts: 1,447 Joined: Nov 3, 10 ♀	Nov 19, 10, 18:33 #9
A J the majority of Germany is pretty sensible and civilized That doesn't include Angela Merkel I suppose, given her recent speach

♂

Nov 19, 10, 18:33 #10

Marynka11:

Despite the labor regulations many millions Pols work already there illegally. Even if more Poles leave, I think they will be the less educated ones. Germans are not so eager to hire foreigners in white collar jobs. And with all the "Failure of Multi-Kulti" propaganda it might really be not the best place to emmigrate to right now anyway.

Actually there are quite a few Poles working white collar jobs, particularly in IT. I think if anyone will go to Germany, it'll be the white collar workers. There isn't much difference in salary for illegal manual labor and legal manual labor...and Germany isn't exactly strict on enforcing employment laws concerning manual labor.

Sokrates:

I'm taking BBs job in 2011.

The helmet market has taken a real beating lately, might want to reconsider.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Nov 19, 10, 18:38 #11
I already received two offers from Germany and one from Switzerland - so I guess there must be loads of companies looking for Polish employees, if they even managed to dig up my old CV in England. Plus its not illegal to work there if you have an invitation, sort of like in Poland.

DarrenMThreads: 2 Posts: 126 Joined: Dec 21, 07 ♂	Edited by: DarrenM Nov 19, 10, 18:42 #12
convex: Actually there are quite a few Poles working white collar jobs, particularly in IT. Absolutely, I've been offered numerous roles despite the fact I don't speak German (but I think i'm subject to different rules as a UK national, I was referring more to the IT aspect) She who must be obeyed refuses point blank to go to Germany, I won't go into her reasons why.

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Nov 19, 10, 18:50 #13

The larger companies in Germany are protected by the workers councils, who wouldn't allow new hiring at lower pay rates. The engine of Germany's economy are the hidden champion SMEs who do specialized work and usually have very strong employee-management relationships.

I think that is the big difference between the labor market in say the UK and Germany. It seems like in the UK, employees are more interchangeable than in Germany. Granted, that is changing in Germany as well, but it still seems to be a much tighter relationship than in a lot of other places (Poland included).

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Nov 19, 10, 18:55 #14

convex:

Actually there are quite a few Poles working white collar jobs, particularly in IT. I think if anyone will go to Germany, it'll be the white collar workers.

I can assure you they all will eventually come back, when they notice that they can't fulfill their professional aspirations just because they are from Eastern Europe. Whey Siemens corporate research center is in the States, full of Indian, Chinese, and Eastern European engineers? I happen to know a few of those people. They all say the same thing: Germans don't respect talent as much as Americans do. Over there it's more about the nationality, the skin color, etc. They will give you a job, let you work, that's for sure. But in 10 years you will be pretty much where you have started.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 19, 10, 19:01 #15
Sokrates: I'm taking BBs job in 2011. You need a helmet for that! pgtx: all the EU 15 must open their labor markets by May 2011... so will Germany... Best chances for skilled laborers...german/english languages preferred... Engineers are especially sought after!

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Nov 19, 10, 19:06 #16

Marynka11:

That doesn't include Angela Merkel I suppose, given her recent speach.

Just look at all the issues and problems between people, and then tell me that it has been a success? On top of all that, we have labour migration, and it's no mystery everyone wants to migrate to the same countries. What do you think will happen if we continue with that? Just look at cities like London, because I've heard even immigrants want to leave now! So do you have any better alternatives? Or should I migrate to Kenia because all of Kenia wants to live here? I mean, where does it end?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 19, 10, 19:07 #17
...not to mention that Merkels final acceptance of failed multi-kulti wasn't meant against european kultis. It's not Europeans we have problems with! Me thinks you Marynka have issues with Germany? Marynka11: Germans don't respect talent as much as Americans do My arse, what a stupid statement! How do you think Germany got where it is if it wouldn't respect talent???

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Nov 19, 10, 19:20 #18

Marynka11:

I can assure you they all will eventually come back, when they notice that they can't fulfill their professional aspirations just because they are from Eastern Europe.

Most went over in the 90s and established themselves.

Marynka11:

Whey Siemens corporate research center is in the States, full of Indian, Chinese, and Eastern European engineers?

It's one of many research centers. Same goes for Erlangen. Quite a few South Americans there as well.

Marynka11:

I happen to know a few of those people. They all say the same thing: Germans don't respect talent as much as Americans do. Over there it's more about the nationality, the skin color, etc. They will give you a job, let you work, that's for sure. But in 10 years you will be pretty much where you have started.

Browse through some of the profiles on xing, should clear up that misconception.

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Nov 19, 10, 19:31 #19

A J

ust look at all the issues and problems between people, and then tell me that it has been a success? On top of all that, we have labour migration, and it's no mystery everyone wants to migrate to the same countries. What do you think will happen if we continue with that?

OK, AJ, you did not understand me. I have real issue with how the speach was worded.
If she stood there and said, "Listen people, we have a real problem, our social system is crumbling into pieces, we practically can't take any more people in, so this are the proposed laws that will help us regulate the immigration problem." Instead she just said, "Multi-Kulti has failed. There, I said what you all think."

And given the fact that Thilo Saraziin is a very well selling author right now, I'm really worried that it all will cause more and more issues between the foreigners and the society that none of this contributes to any constructive solutions.

Bratwurst Boy:

It's not Europeans we have problems with!

Of course you don't have problems with Europeans. Just with the Eastern Europeans.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Nov 19, 10, 19:32 #20
Bratwurst Boy: Engineers are especially sought after! Interesting - Germany wants Polish engineers? I've always thought that Germany excells in all engineering areas, and now they want us to work for them? I'm not coming anyway - my Turkish is very basic ;)

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 19, 10, 19:37 #21

Torq:

Interesting - Germany wants Polish engineers? I've always thought that Germany
excells in all engineering areas, and now they want us to work for them?

We never have enough!!!

Torq:

*I'm not coming anyway - my Turkish is very basic ;)*

Marynka11:

Of course you don't have problems with Europeans. Just with the Eastern Europeans.

And here I thought Eastern Europeans were also Europeans...my fault! umm

Marynka11:

And given the fact that Thilo Saraziin is a very well selling author right now, I'm really worried that it all will cause more and more issues between the foreigners and the society that none of this contributes to any constructive solutions.

The first step to a solution for a problem is the acknowledgment of the existence of said problem.
In that regard we have to be grateful for Sarrazin. Now it's on the politicians...

PS: Even Sarrazins problems wasn't with Europeans (not even eastern Europeans)!

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Nov 19, 10, 19:38 #22

Torq:

Interesting - Germany wants Polish engineers? I've always thought that Germany
excells in all engineering areas, and now they want us to work for them?

In business, Germans are interested in one thing, how best to make money. If Polish engineers are up for the job, and are willing to integrate into the environment, they get hired.

Torq:

*I'm not coming anyway - my Turkish is very basic ;)*

Finished your copy of "Deutschland schafft sich ab" already? :)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Nov 19, 10, 19:41 #23
convex: Finished your copy of "Deutschland schafft sich ab" already? :) I'm not going to read it. It just stands there on the shelf, so I can look at that red cover when I feel down in the dumps. Cheers me up immensely. ;)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 19:42 #24
Torq: I'm not going to read it. It just stands there on the shelf, so I can look at that red cover when I feel down in the dumps. Cheers me up immensely. ;) You would be next in line Torqi...you are not living on some secure island!

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Nov 19, 10, 19:47 #25
Bratwurst Boy: You would be next in line Torqi...you are not living on some secure island! Ain't gonna happen. Poland is not what you would call a muslim firendly environment, if you know what I mean :) Besides, our social welfare is non-existent compared to German, Irish or French, so they will rather go to Western Europe than Poland.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 19:52 #26
The moment you get rich (and we poor) they will come!

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Nov 19, 10, 20:06 #27

Bratwurst Boy:

And here I thought Eastern Europeans were also Europeans...my fault!

You are The Good German, I have to give you that.

The first step to a solution for a problem is the acknowledgment of the existence of said problem.
In that regard we have to be grateful for Sarrazin. Now it's on the politicians...
PS: Even Sarrazins problems wasn't with Europeans (not even eastern Europeans)!

I think Sarrazin is the problem. Just look what you said yourself, he doesn't have a problem with the Europeans, with whom then? With the Muslims, with the darker sinned ones, with the people who sell fruit on the corner? I'm just waiting for the Kristallnacht to happen again.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 19, 10, 20:07 #28
Bratwurst Boy: And here I thought Eastern Europeans were also Europeans...my fault! Yea, that's why Western European somehow always don't forget to make that distinction

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Nov 19, 10, 20:08 #29
Bratwurst Boy: The moment you get rich (and we poor) they will come! Not necessarily. I can imagine Poland getting rich, but still not giving away lots of welfare money to third world immigrants. It's only common sense, really. We will learn from your mistakes.

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Nov 19, 10, 20:10 #30

Marynka11:

And given the fact that Thilo Saraziin is a very well selling author right now, I'm really worried that it all will cause more and more issues between the foreigners and the society that none of this contributes to any constructive solutions.

IIRC he didn't have anything bad to say about Polish people, he even singled them out as examples of successful integration.

The problem immigrants are mostly muslims with low social capital who are very resistant to those things that would help them gain social capital (education and intergration) but not resistant to accepting state handouts.
It's a similar situation to that of gypsy populations in Slovakia and Hungary.

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