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Medvedev visit to Poland - optimistic sign?


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Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 16:31    #1
Anyone pinning much hope on the forthcoming visit to Poland by President Medvedev? Will the Katyń issue be finally settled? Kaczyński welcomed the Duma's admission of Stalin's guilt but said Russia should financially compensate the victims' families. What's your take on that?
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Nov 29, 10, 16:34    #2
Polonius3:
Kaczyński welcomed the Duma's admission of Stalin's guilt but said Russia shiould financially compensate the victims' families. What's your takle on that?

Kaczyński needs to stfu.
Polonius3:
Anyone pinning much hope on the forthcoming visit to Poland by President Medvedev?

Nope, Russia is still our closet enemy but its good to pretend we have relatively normal relations.
Polonius3:
Will the Katyń issue be finally settled?

No.
jwojcieThreads: 3
Posts: 816
Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: jwojcie  Nov 29, 10, 17:00    #3
Sokrates:
Anyone pinning much hope on the forthcoming visit to Poland by President Medvedev?


AFAIK some minor agreements will be signed (regarding transport issues and environmental issues in Baltic see region), handshakes will be exchanged, maybe he will bring a new set of files regarding Katyn and.... that's it.

Kaczyński has a point as a opposition party leader he can say that. But official diplomacy can't. Especially when one of the key reasons behind Russian obfuscation of Katyn issue is not a problem of compensation for families of twenty or thirty thousands of Poles but a compensation for milions of Russian families. First is a peanuts but second could bancrupt Russian Federation. Thing is that they cann't do first without a second. So, there is no chance there will be any compensations, everybody know that, so talking about compensation by one of political leaders is just an internal PR. The problem is that atonement is an logical outcome of guilt admission. Unfortunately I bet there will be no atonement in foreseeable future, so this Katyn issue will stay as partially unsettled issue between the two countries.

PS. Just to clarify: the problem of compensation is on the table because of Russian Federation is a legal hair of Soviet Union. Some would argue that Russia is as much a victim of Stalin that everyother CEE country and there is some true in it. But it is a moral issue, legal reality is what it is.
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 17:21    #4
Polonius3:
Kaczyński welcomed the Duma's admission of Stalin's guilt but said Russia shiould financially compensate the victims' families. What's your takle on that?

Fair deal. Then i will be a rich man!
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: PennBoy  Nov 29, 10, 17:35    #5
Polonius3:
Anyone pinning much hope on the forthcoming visit to Poland by President Medvedev? Will the Katyń issue be finally settled? Kaczyński welcomed the Duma's admission of Stalin's guilt but said Russia shiould financially compensate the victims' families. What's your takle on that?


They obviously want good relations, as a Polish analyst from the University of Poznan stated Russia wants Poland as it's ambassador to the EU, who better than the largest and most important of its EU neighbors and an old foe.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Nov 29, 10, 19:30    #6
PennBoy:
University of Poznan


Where? There's no such thing.
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 19:34    #7
Sokrates:
Nope, Russia is still our closet enemy but its good to pretend we have relatively normal relations.


If we can keep the hostility going long enough...nobody will actually be able to remember why the hostility exists....

Not that it will stop the Poles , who historically have to blame somebody else for all thats wrong in Poland....
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 19:52    #8
delphiandomine:
Where? There's no such thing.

Adam Mickiewicz University also called University of Poznan, like Jagiellonian Universily- Universicy of Cracow
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:11    #9
I hope he likes cabbage and floury foods :) I'm guessing he likes vodka :)

Have they timetabled the handshakes and slogan brandishing? Will they talk about talks? Will they have a guffaw about the missile shield? Oh, we were gonna fire missiles at you, Donnie Boy. Really, hehehe. Well I never, old chap. Biscuits, anyone?
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:12    #10
Medvedev visit to Poland - optimistic sign?

yes, it is. Russia is more important for safety and even prosperity of Poland then USA for example, so all this is good for Poland.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:15    #11
How can Russia ensure the safety of Poland, Crow? Ensuring a steady gas supply will likely be discussed.
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:16    #12
Seanus:
I hope he likes cabbage and floury foods :) I'm guessing he likes vodka


He is a Russian..of course he likes it....
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:18    #13
Not all Russians do ;)

I wonder if they will discuss exchange programs. If some Poles are Russians were to drop their pride and look forward, there is hope that they can find common ground though stubborness may block this avenue. Still, if the conditions are right.
MediaWatchThreads: 31
Posts: 1,305
Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:20    #14
Sokrates:
Nope, Russia is still our closet enemy but its good to pretend we have relatively normal relations.


Maybe Poland should give Russia a chance now? no?
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:22    #15
In my experiance the ordainary Russian people have no problem with Polish people..The Poles on the other hand want to keep any problems from the past going as long as possible...

If they make friends with everybody...who can they blame for Polands problems...?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:25    #16
I think it's because the Poles lost out far more but, as my mother-in-law said, Stalin killed more of his own. Poles should bear that in mind. Yes, it is a huge injustice that Poles died at the hands of Russians but Stalin was brutal to his own kin. Today's generation should embrace change. Medvedev seems to be more accessible than Putin and more trustworthy.
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
Posts: 2,358
Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:27    #17
wildrover:
If we can keep the hostility going long enough...


Kto powiedział, że Moskale

Są to bracia nas, Lechitów,

Temu pierwszy w łeb wypalę

Przed kościołem Karmelitów.



Kto nie uczuł w gnuśnym bycie

Naszych kajdan, praw zniewagi,

To, jak zdrajcy, wydrę życie

Na niemszczonych kościach Pragi.


wildrover:
nobody will actually be able to remember why the hostility exists....

They raided our Lithuanians (which don't like us that much anymore) and then Lithuanians raided you! (Good for you!) Then they raided us! (Not good for any of us!) Then we raided you and tried to have a Polish sar at your throne! (MWuahhahaha) Then you raided us when Cossacks did it as well! (Daamn you!) Then we had some fun in your areas! (Haha payback!) Then you came to us to play a football match with Sweden! (Damn Russian hooligans!) Then We went with Napoleon and Moscow got burned down to the core (haha suckers!) Then you occupied us for a long long time... (Come on!!!) Then we liberated from you and didn't help ye when the Soviets did a revolution! (Hahahah revenge!!!) And so on and so on... How did it end? THat's the question!

wildrover:
Not that it will stop the Poles , who historically have to blame somebody else for all thats wrong in Poland...

I blame wildrover! He mocks us! I blame him for all bad that has happaned! I know he doesn't want us well! Grrr! *starts to bark at wildrover*
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Nov 29, 10, 23:28    #18
Seanus:
How can Russia ensure the safety of Poland, Crow?

what if Germany wants another partition of Poland? What then? Who would be first German partner in case of another Poland`s partition (or segmentation)? USA or Russia? Russia, i think. i think that any such ideas of Germany must first found fertile ground in Russia and just then in USA. Germany would first try to bribe Russia, for any project that can lead to partition of Poland. Without Russian approval, partition of Poland actually isn`t even possible. For that reason (among others), Polish leadership needs to have good relations with Russia.

or why for example Poland wouldn`t suggest partition, segmentation or even dissolution of Germany, to Russia? i am sure that Russia may be open for any good ideas.
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
Posts: 2,358
Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:39    #19
Crow:
or why for example Poland wouldn`t suggest partition, segmentation or even dissolution of Germany, to Russia? i am sure that Russia may be open for any good ideas.

Crowie!!! :D

But remember that Poland doesn't like the idea of a "big brother" that's why panslavism isn't popular in Poland in the first place, remember?
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:50    #20
Mr Grunwald:
I blame wildrover! He mocks us!


Don,t worry..i shall soon be in Moscow...mocking the silly Russians...
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Nov 29, 10, 23:53    #21
Mr Grunwald:
But remember that Poland doesn't like the idea of a "big brother" that's why panslavism isn't popular in Poland in the first place, remember?

Very true, pan-Slavism means Russian domination, that's always been a biter thought in Poland
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Nov 30, 10, 00:05    #22
Mr Grunwald:
But remember that Poland doesn't like the idea of a "big brother" that's why panslavism isn't popular in Poland in the first place, remember?

Poland have to offer its own ideas for future pan-Slavic mega trends, not to be afraid of past.

There are two crucial strategic cards in the hands of Poland, for future expansion of Polish influence. Those are 1. accessibility to Vatican`s lobby (Poland is biggest Catholic country in Slavic world and Eastern Europe) and 2. Serbians (Serbs are element that opening other major Slavs to Poland and puts Poland in the center). Now, Poland should play well with these cards and carefully balance their use

PennBoy:
Very true, pan-Slavism means Russian domination, that's always been a biter thought in Poland

Interesting. We comprehend history absolutely differently

For Serbs, Pan-Slavism means five crucial things /chronologically/:

1. support (by Serbs) to other Slavs on the West and East of Slavic world
2. Polish influences and Polish support to Serbs
3. Russian influence and Russian support to Serbs
4. liberation (by Serbs) of other Balkan Slavs from Turkish/Austrian oppression
5. Pan-Slavism directly represent dream about gigantic, free and strong Slavic state
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Nov 30, 10, 00:53    #23
Do you think Medvedev follows your logic, Crow, or is he just another Russian imperialist masquerading as a nice man? Don't you think that Putin and him have become very pally with the Germans? Putin speaks fluent German after all. He has some love for them, I think. How does Serbia perceive the difference between the 2 Russian leaders?
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Nov 30, 10, 00:59    #24
Crow:
Interesting. We comprehend history absolutely differently

Well as you know Russia was one of the countries to partition Poland, Poland was suspicious of Russian "support" they supported us well in after WWII when see saw just a change in occupiers not not our liberators. Russia's "support" was always different with regards to Poland then other Slav nations, it always seemed to them that they have to control us, the Ukrainians as well.
MediaWatchThreads: 31
Posts: 1,305
Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂ 		 Nov 30, 10, 02:58    #25
Crow:
Poland have to offer its own ideas for future pan-Slavic mega trends, not to be afraid of past.

There are two crucial strategic cards in the hands of Poland, for future expansion of Polish influence. Those are 1. accessibility to Vatican`s lobby (Poland is biggest Catholic country in Slavic world and Eastern Europe) and 2. Serbians (Serbs are element that opening other major Slavs to Poland and puts Poland in the center). Now, Poland should play well with these cards and carefully balance their use



PennBoy:
Very true, pan-Slavism means Russian domination, that's always been a biter thought in Poland
Interesting. We comprehend history absolutely differently

Crow:

For Serbs, Pan-Slavism means five crucial things /chronologically/:

1. support (by Serbs) to other Slavs on the West and East of Slavic world
2. Polish influences and Polish support to Serbs
3. Russian influence and Russian support to Serbs
4. liberation (by Serbs) of other Balkan Slavs from Turkish/Austrian oppression
5. Pan-Slavism directly represent dream about gigantic, free and strong Slavic state


You have an interesting analysis Crow. I like your Pro-Slavic thoughts. But do you think there is hope for Pan-Slavic unity among Slavic nations?

As you know there have always been divisions between Slavic nations. But now, maybe.... just maybe.... with Polish-Russian relations recently warming.....perhaps this could trickle down to other Slavic nations. Maybe if Slavic nations understand that even if they will never agree on everything (no two countries ever do) but have some kind of working alliance with each other.....then maybe...just maybe... there could be at least a semi-pan Slavic unity among Slavic nations.

Polish-Russia relations have been getting better (knock on wood) and Poland and Russia seem to have decent relations with Serbia. So right there you have 3 Slavic nations getting along somewhat. I think Ukraine gets along with Serbia and Ukraine has been getting along better with Poland and Russia in recent years......so hey.....if you add it all up.....maybe there could be hope for a pan-Slavic unity. It would be nice if all Slavic nations could all say together to the world - that they are proud of being Slavic.

In my Polish American family, I was always brought up to be proud of being Slavic. :)


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