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NATO “did not want to take risks” for the Poles!


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HarryThreads: 62
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 Jul 21, 11, 01:20    #31
PennBoy:
Jaruzelski said we're going in, we're going in.

Unless of course they had no weapons to go in with. But somehow they had weapons. I wonder where those came from.

MediaWatch:
Couldn't have been a significant minority

Yes a mere few million.

BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Jul 21, 11, 01:21    #32
delphiandomine:
 The system actually worked quite well - it's a stereotypical view in the West that the Communist Bloc "didn't work".

Really? So if it was so successful, why did it fail?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Edited by: delphiandomine  Jul 21, 11, 01:33    #33
Bzibzioh:
 Really? So if it was so successful, why did it fail?


Mismanagement, ineptitude and diabolical economic planning.

The taking of vast loans from the West, only to half-finish many factories is a great example. The utter lack of control in many respects (who didn't steal from their workplace?) was another thing. Same story in most Communist countries - hardly unique to Poland.

One interesting thing is that in Poland today, there's a perception that all children should be able to go to summer camps. Nonsense, of course - yet this is one thing that the Communist system provided.

It's very much my opinion that people didn't necessarily want the end of Communism, but they wanted a decent lifestyle which the state failed miserably at providing.

But at the same time - it was hardly a backwards country. It might not have been wealthy, but it certainly wasn't a banana republic either.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jul 21, 11, 08:24    #34
Well, I suppose you could interpret it that way, delph. I interpreted it as Poland being in NATO and the NATO powers not helping them but, so far, Poland has been actively involved in NATO campaigns and would likely be helped out, depending on the scale of the help.
peterwegThreads: 35
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Edited by: peterweg  Jul 21, 11, 10:20    #35
The facts is Poland was part of the Warsaw Pact and NATO targeted it for attack. The possibility that the Poles or other nations would revolt against the Soviets was hypothesised but was in no way a given.

It was assumed that any intervention in Poland would have resulted in a all out, possibly nuclear war in Poland, leading to its total annihilation. Were the Poles aware that most of Nato battlefield nukes would have been used in Poland in the event of a war?
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Edited by: Grzegorz_  Jul 21, 11, 12:09    #36
delphiandomine
  I can't help but wonder if that's why the Soviets


The Soviets never fully trusted Polish army or even commie leadership, you can clearly see that when you take a look how Polish ("People's") Army was organized... It was large but largely made of support units for the advancing (in case of war) Red Army (providing supply, building bridges, guarding duties etc.) with few offensive units... Far smaller Czechoslovakia had more tanks than Poland, East Germany had twice more modern airplanes.

delphiandomine
 It seems to me that as Jaruzelski rose up through the ranks, Poland fell more and more into line. He was, after all, Moscow's man from the beginning


You actually make some sense. Shocking.

delphiandomine
 the system could never have worked in Poland without the acceptance of a significant minority of Poles.


But... was there any case where Soviet could not find enough collaborators among locals ? They did even in the Baltics after terrible things were done there in 39-41 and post 44. Was there ever any country where collaborators weren't found ? Especially when people were brainwashed with propaganda about common victory, eternal brotherhood etc. Many people here really believed they were doing a good thing. Millions in North Korea believe they protect their country from the agressors trying to steal their... wealth.

delphiandomine
 
He's never (to my knowledge) spoken about how he went from being a gentrified Catholic schoolboy to orphaned forced labourer, only to end up getting selected for Soviet officer training.


I wouldn't have even been so sure If that the same guy.

peterweg
 The facts is Poland was part of the Warsaw Pact and NATO targeted it for attack. The possibility that the Poles or other nations would revolt against the Soviets was hypothesised but was in no way a given.

It was assumed that any intervention in Poland would have resulted in a all out, possibly nuclear war in Poland, leading to its total annihilation. Were the Poles aware that most of Nato battlefield nukes would have been used in Poland in the event of a war?


True. I don't think anyone here really expected that NATO would trigger off WW3 to help Polish opposition... The documents are just a curiosity, that's all.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jul 22, 11, 13:30    #37
NATO was like the knight in shining armour to romantic Poles who saw it as a security net. What risks would NATO take for Poland anyway? Poland is now more 'onboard' so the question should be 'will NATO take risks for the Poles?'


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