NATO prepares for Nuclear war

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07 ♂	Jan 22, 08, 17:32 #31
Crow wrote: i heard about issue where they refused to fight against Serbs, on the behalf of Muslims Yes, it was all of them, but I think we English had them all shot as traitors or something.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Jan 22, 08, 17:34 #32
osiol wrote: Yes, it was all of them, but I think we English had them all shot as traitors or something. arnt thier heads still on Poles on London bridge,and a few skelitons hanging on York city walls?

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂	Edited by: Crow Jan 22, 08, 17:37 #33
isthatu go, take some medications realy Look, i apologize if something that i said destroyed your balance. I am so sorry man

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Jan 22, 08, 17:43 #34

Personally, I somewhat wonder, why did NATO stop its first-strike capability? After all, during the cold war (which was not always so "cold" btw) this is what gave NATO its teeth. Russian public probably did not want global nuclear destruction any more than the American public did, but the implied threat of the same kept either side from actually *using* said weapons on each other.
Originally, only the U.S. had nuclear weapons, although there are reports that Japan had tested a device towards the end of the war using materials delivered by U-boat, but was too slow to deploy a device as a weapon (as I understand, one of N Korea's nuclear facilities actually started out as part of the Imperial Japanese bomb program) and Germany kept trying but her heavy water plants kept getting destroyed by bombing and Commando raids. Russia "inherited" much of what she originally started with in the late 1940's from Japan WRT materials, but not until a traitor in the U.S. sold them the technology did Russia actually manage to produce its first successful nuclear weapon. This spy was recently awarded a medal by Russia for his efforts.
I ramble.
In todays world, it is not just Russia and the U.S. nor even their close allies that have nuclear weapons. If so, relations could remain perhaps cold, but at least usually civil IMHO. The fear here, is that there are new nations with nuclear capabilities which are not so civil, and in some instances, have already preached the destruction (based largely on religious ideology) of other nations. Now that these nations are gaining this potential, a "first strike" capability would hopefully deter them from preparing their own strikes.
Pakistan is currently suffering serious internal struggle because the public is AFAIK largely controlled by extreme fundamentalists seeking the destruction of the west. It's government is (so far) not. Unfortunately destabilizing elements have resorted to assasination, and while certain members of Pakistan's internal security organization are under investigation, it is unlikely many will be satisfied. (Personal opinion). Pakistan has nuclear weapons.
Iran still claims to seek nuclear weapons, although US intelligence claims the Iranian refinement program stopped about 3 years ago. Hopefully they are right, although not producing weapons grade material does not preclude production of a weapon-one only need look at the products all over the world purchased from China. China seems to have a sit back and wait mentality. She has everyone else do her dirty work and quietly reaps the benefits...part of Chinese culture I imagine.
If these nations wish to have these capabilities, it would be best for any alliance hoping to deter said nations, to have the capability not to simply react, but to hit first upon it being obvious nuclear exchange is inevitable.
Incidentally-the newest nuclear missiles have just been produced by Russia...
Sorry for the novel,
Have to go fly
Later folks.
John P.

hairballThreads: 34 Posts: 770 Joined: Dec 16, 07 ♂	Jan 23, 08, 05:03 #35
John P. Do you think that there can be any winners in a nuclear war?

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Edited by: Michal Jan 23, 08, 08:05 #36

polishcanuck wrote:

Skurwysynie. And communism wa

You are just very rude. Anyway, after the end of hostilities in May 195=45, Poland and East Germany as well as other sovereign countries became the responsibility of the Soviet Union after democratic elections decided by the people themselves, elected Communist Governments. The construction of the Berlin Wall in 1951 was another measure by Joseph in Moscow to buffer and protect the new socialist order throughout Eastern Europe from capitalist aggression.

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Jan 23, 08, 09:41 #37

Pre-emptive nuclear strike a key option, Nato told

Ian Traynor in Brussels
Tuesday January 22, 2008
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/nato/story/0,,2244782,00.html

The west must be ready to resort to a pre-emptive nuclear attack to try to halt the "imminent" spread of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, according to a radical manifesto for a new Nato by five of the west's most senior military officers and strategists.

A British Trident missile. Photograph: AP

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Jan 23, 08, 10:06 #38

IMO This is the reaction from Russia's threats, seems they are not going to let them pass.

"Maybe we are going to use nuclear weapons before anyone else, but I'd be wary of saying it out loud."

Another senior EU official said Nato needed to "rethink its nuclear posture because the nuclear non-proliferation regime is under enormous pressure".

Naumann suggested the threat of nuclear attack was a counsel of desperation. "Proliferation is spreading and we have not too many options to stop it. We don't know how to deal with this."

Nato needed to show "there is a big stick that we might have to use if there is no other option", he said.

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Jan 23, 08, 10:49 #39

JohnP wrote:

Incidentally-the newest nuclear missiles have just been produced by Russia...

Nuclear weapons are so 20th-century! Russia and USA have the most powerful (if not the only) vacuum bombs, which have the same capabilities as a nuclear bombs but are ecologically friendly. So even if the war will start, these are two countries we have to watch out, because if nuclear bombs will affect everyone on the globe, the vacuum ones won't.

Think green! ;)

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Jan 23, 08, 12:37 #40
celinski wrote: Nato needed to show "there is a big stick that we might have to use if there is no other option", he said. Poland too had a lot of powerful weapons aimed at us in the West during the Cold War. Poland would have 'pushed the button' if it had to on the orders of Moscow. Even Polish plumbers and electricians obviously have their price!

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07 ♀	Jan 23, 08, 12:52 #41
Michal wrote: Poland would have 'pushed the button' if it had to on the orders of Moscow Poland would not have pressed the button, I do not see Poland and communist Poland as the same.

ZgubionyThreads: 21 Posts: 2,037 Joined: Oct 20, 06 ♂	Jan 23, 08, 12:53 #42
Michal wrote: Poland would have 'pushed the button' if it had to on the orders of Moscow. Even Polish plumbers and electricians obviously have their price! Most people have" their price". Why even place the word PL in front? Yopu'd do the same if you had no thoughts for yourself.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Jan 23, 08, 14:25 #43
Zgubiony wrote: Yopu'd do the same if you had no thoughts for Maybe, yes.

Shawn_H	Jan 23, 08, 15:15 #44
Michal wrote: Poland and East Germany as well as other sovereign countries Are you suggesting they were sovereign? Michal wrote: after democratic elections decided by the people themselves Some choice "Communist party, or Communist Party" Michal wrote: to buffer and protect the new socialist order throughout Eastern Europe from capitalist aggression. Read: contain and enslave.

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Edited by: isthatu Jan 23, 08, 15:48 #45

Michal wrote:

Poland and East Germany as well as other sovereign countries became the responsibility of the Soviet Union after democratic elections decided by the people themselves, elected Communist Governments

OL,explain the uprisings in both countries in 1953...

Michal wrote:

The construction of the Berlin Wall in 1951 was another measure by Joseph in Moscow

The berlin wall was constructed in 1961,seven years after uncle joe popped his sapogii.

paczka wrote:

which have the same capabilities as a nuclear bombs but are ecologically friendly.

not sure how much ecology is left after one of these toys goes bang?

celinski wrote:

Poland would not have pressed the button, I do not see Poland and communist Poland as the same

sorry to say,but between the 50s and the end of the 80s it was very much the same...sure,many Poles would have dragged their heels rather than side with the Soviet army but a significant amount would not have done.Polish troops remember marched into Czechoslovakia in '68 and helped the russians crush that uprising,and to this day,many Polish armed forces officers are distinctly anti western.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 23, 08, 16:18 #46

hairball wrote:
I am of the opinion that a Nuclear war is un-winable. Is it right that NATO thinks that pre-emptive stikes are "Justified"?

You are absolutely right...and who are the losers?...innocent people like me, you, our friends and families...did the US 'win' anything by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki?...not a thing...although nuclear weapons may be a neccesary defensive tool in this insane world, it is only in the sense that the possesion of such weapons might give an aggressor pause...use of said weapons would be a catastrophe.

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Jan 23, 08, 17:34 #47

Russia’s strategic bombers trouble quite Europe

26.12.2007 Source: Pravda.Ru
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/26-12-2007/103172-strategic_b ombers-0

Two F-16 fighter jets of Denmark’s Air Force took off for an on-call mission after Russia’s strategic bombers Tu-160 appeared near the country’s air space.

Radars of the Danish air defense system detected the target at about midnight local time. “We contacted Russians at 00:18 a.m. and escorted them for 18 minutes as they continued to fly in the south-western direction. We accompanied the Russian bombers until pilots of the British Air Force intercepted them. Afterwards, we returned to our airbase,” Danish pilot Peter Melgord said.

Russia’s strategic bomber

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Jan 24, 08, 03:03 #48

joepilsudski wrote:

You are absolutely right...and who are the losers?...innocent people like me, you, our friends and families...did the US 'win' anything by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki?...not a thing...although nuclear weapons may be a neccesary defensive tool in this insane world, it is only in the sense that the possesion of such weapons might give an aggressor pause...use of said weapons would be a catastrophe.

Here here!

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Jan 24, 08, 08:30 #49

Michal wrote:

You are just very rude.

You are just very dumb. Only a very tiny group of poles and jews(who ran the very brutal police force after the war) in poland agreed to work with the ruskies to impose communism on poland after ww2 (and probably for finanical purposes too ie: poverty after the war). Even stalin himself knew that poland did not want communism. He said, "imposing communism on poland is like trying to saddle a cow." F.uck go read some books, you prostak.

MichalThreads: - Posts: 2,408 Joined: Feb 27, 07 ♂	Jan 24, 08, 08:41 #50
isthatu wrote: he berlin wall was constructed in 1961,seven years after uncle joe popped his sapogii. Yes, that was my mistake. I tried to correct it but was unable to edit it. I meant that Joseph Stalin created the D.D.R. in 1951 and not the Wall. He had to build the wall to protect people in the new East from capitalist expansion.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Jan 24, 08, 15:48 #51
no worries M',its a pain the editing on here........

paczkaThreads: 1 Posts: 113 Joined: Dec 28, 07 ♂	Jan 24, 08, 17:51 #52
isthatu wrote: no worries M',its a pain the editing on here........ I think Russian hackers are involved! They have disabled the editing button! OMG runs away

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Jan 24, 08, 18:01 #53
paczka wrote: I think Russian hackers are involved! those darn russkies :) I blame the yankee imperialist running dogs myself....:)

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Edited by: Crow Jan 24, 08, 18:02 #54

just wanted to share with you (little insight in my family conversation)...

My mother told me today that she is `afraid of NATO and said that she believe that NATO is capable to come and start to killing us again from the sky`

I told her- `don`t worry mother, there are many Slavs in NATO. They won`t alowe that to happen again`

She said- ` where were they in 1999?`

I answered- `mother, they were surprised, they just became members of NATO and didn`t expect to be part of lunacy. Now, they know`

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Edited by: isthatu Jan 24, 08, 18:08 #55
Dont worry crow,dont invade other countries,dont slaughter your ethnic minorities again and your mum will be perfectly safe.(hopefully,god bless.)

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Edited by: Crow Jan 24, 08, 18:24 #56

isthatu wrote:

dont invade other countries,dont slaughter your ethnic minorities again

f*** you will you

Serbs didn`t invade other countries and we didn`t slaughter our ethnic minorities but, you can believe whatever your ugly BBC told to you

Serbs didn`t start killings, nor back in WWII, nor in last Civil War. Serbs were attacked by overwhelming foes of Arabic and Bosnian mujaheedines, croatian ustashe, NATO, Albanian islamists. It is Serbs who were slaughtered and regularly there are no informations about it for public of so called west. But, when Serbs retaliated, there were cameras on every corner. Even then your media and governments needed to fabricate rapports, to present Serbs as bad guys.

It is good that Britain would collapse soon and BBC won`t exist anymore. That would be end of one false media house

SadekThreads: 7 Posts: 231 Joined: Jan 11, 08 ♂	Edited by: Sadek Jan 24, 08, 18:36 #57
Crow wrote: f*** you will you he is telling versions of Histroy which hurts ... he don't care they are untrue ... pathetic. We all know what serbs did ;) but for gods sake Serbs didn't start WWI wthout this accident it would start ...

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Edited by: isthatu Jan 24, 08, 18:43 #58

Sadek wrote:

he is telling versions of Histroy which hurts ...

yes,the truth does hurt,

Sadek wrote:

he don't care they are untrue ... pathetic. We all know what serbs did

eh,so,in one sentance im lying and telling the truth?make your mind up....and you add a smile to it,boy,your one sick puppy if you think genocide deserves a little smilie face....
well sadek,if you like denying genocide,fine. the dead of srebrinica and sarajavo might have something to say on the subject.

Crow wrote:

Even then your media and governments needed to fabricate rapports, t

yes,we fabricated 15,000 dead boys and old men murdered by your militias didnt we. liar.If you lie about genocide you may as well have tied those little boys up and shot them yourselves,both of you,you should be ashamed.If you really believe what crow has to say sadek,your loss,you are as guilty as he is.I suggest you do a bit of research on the balkan conflict,either that or talk to my ex army mates that saw just what the serb forces did,just think nazis in russia x10,old people crucified,mothers raped infront of their children,entire croatian and bosnian villages rounded up and burnt alive in the village hall or school.....

SadekThreads: 7 Posts: 231 Joined: Jan 11, 08 ♂	Jan 24, 08, 18:46 #59
as I said we all know what Serbs did ... but they haven't started WWI

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07 ♂	Edited by: isthatu Jan 24, 08, 18:48 #60
so,mass murder in the 1990's is fine,but a serb plot to destabalise the austro hungarian empire and drag russia into a war on its side is an unacceptable slur for me to mention,like I say,you come across as a sicko.,how old are you?any concept of the balkan conflict or were you just a nipper that liked seeing the army men on tv?

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