New Polish gambling law

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Nov 25, 09, 06:08 #1

The Polish Government just passed a law that will outlaw gambling except in casinos. I live in Poland and I see now, on almost every corner, neon flashing signs and ads for gambling machines inside the establishment under the sign.

These are not casinos, just every little bar has installed these gambling machines and poor people are sitting at them putting their weeks earnings in them.

The law will also limit internet gambling. Many people think it is just about internet gambling, but its the slot machines that are everywhere also.

The government will also tax normal casinos and the money will be directly applied to physical education and culture for Polish schools.

Seeing that these 'one armed bandits' are on every corner in the town I live, I think the limit will be welcomed by many people.

TlumThreads: 17 Posts: 136 Joined: Feb 20, 07 ♂	Nov 25, 09, 06:18 #2
I've already thought it's been the law in Poland ;). It seems the Polish government has found a way to get more money, probably rightfully so. Not sure about Internet gambling though, if gov wants to put their hands on the Internet then it's never good news.. I would think people could gamble online freely, it shouldn't cause any social concern. Next they will ban Internet p0rn maybe ;).

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Nov 25, 09, 10:42 #3

Well the truth is internet gambling will be hard to limit, internet anything is hard to limit. Internet is a different type of user and I personally do not have to look at it. If I do not want to. If some fool wants to spend money on online gambling, whatever I guess.

For me the real problem is I live in part of the old town in Krakow and I see these neon signs flashing for the latest 77777 club and people putting their earnings for the week into them. It makes parts of Krakow look very sleezy. I will be happy to see them go. But the truth is I am a skeptic, I think they will find a way to gt around the law.

It will be signed by the President in a few weeks.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Nov 25, 09, 11:49 #4
mbiernat: It makes parts of Krakow look very sleezy. I will be happy to see them go. The same here in Warsaw. Five in a two hundred yard stretch of the main road near my home. Most permanently empty - something to do with money laundering. They are an eyesore and it will be great if they're closed down.

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂	Nov 25, 09, 12:14 #5
It rather will not stop internet gambling, but this law will probably cut off important group off people from gambling, youth. They will not be able to gamble in those little clubs, because they will dissapear. They will not be allowed into cassinos. They will not be able to play in the internet because in order to do that, one need a credit card which youth usually don't have.

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Nov 25, 09, 12:16 #6

jonni:

The same here in Warsaw. Five in a two hundred yard stretch of the main road near my home. Most permanently empty - something to do with money laundering.

Snap, here too.

I'm anti-removing them from places where they can be entertainment - I see no harm in a few slot machines at a train station or in a pub. But the kiosks used for them should be shut down - they just attract undesirables, and really don't serve much purpose. It would've actually made sense to simply ban them from a location in which they are the main attraction - instantly outlawing '777 kiosks' while allowing them in other places.

This law is annoying though - I like playing gaming machines, and 10zl in a video poker machine can give a good hour worth of amusement.

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Nov 25, 09, 18:37 #7

If you are like spending your money at a 'One arm bandit", great. But remember, you can play on something like pogo.com for free and also win money and have 100 hours of entertainment for free.

That being said, I agree with the above comment that is it is to launder money. I do see many of them empty. In fact, one time I poke my head in one and the people where looking at me like what am I doing there.

Ok so here is another problem with them. They crowd out other shops. Let me explain, in my area I would say that there are about fifty 7777 neon type clubs. I have not counted but lets say 50 in short walking distance from me. Fifty places that are paying rent. If I want to open a small shop, and I have thought of doing it, that means the rent for me to rent a small shop it is more expensive as the demand for space is up. Therefore it crowds out real investment. It is called the crowding out effect.

But the bottom line it is a very sleezy low form of development for Poland.

nauczyciel	Nov 26, 09, 18:38 #8
"sleazy"

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Nov 26, 09, 18:41 #9
nauczyciel: "sleazy" Sleazy indeed, and those places are always empty. The money they actually take surely doesn't cover the rent for the premises. A real scam, and good that the governments finally going to do something. A logical next step would be unannounced tax inspections of the owners.

nauczyciel	Nov 26, 09, 18:58 #10
i'd rather see visual garbage like the reklama draped over every building taken care of than the 777's. I've seen about 3 in Szczecin.

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Dec 2, 09, 05:15 #11

Most of these slots have to be controlled by a syndicate...It is good the government wishes to get rid of them.

As for youth, youth shouldn't be gambling in a serious way...This is a dangerous habit...You want to gamble a little, have a poker game and throw a few bucks around, keep it in the house.

State lottery can be a good way to regulate things a bit, provided the profits go for essential services, and not into private pockets,

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Dec 5, 09, 13:44 #12

Personally I don't find gambling to be entertainment. However I hate to see how government tell people how to spend their money. In all this story I see willingness of ruling party to cover corruption in their ranks. I see also laziness of people unwilling to take care about their children and wishing to pass this task to state. While politicians are always willing to take away people's freedoms, especially if the latter group don't really understand what is going on. Wake up people, when laziness of people meet with interventionist policy of political establishment, expect fascism/socialism to arise. Old Polish saying state, that you should never enter the same river twice

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Dec 5, 09, 13:52 #13

A new place has just popped up here and I know of others that will not react kindly to such meddling in their private lives. It comes down to social responsibility and managing your free time effectively. Lesser is right, they don't need to extend their tentacles into every aspect of our private lives. Just look at Japan, they have such allegiance to their companies and still they manage to 'slot in' some time for pachinko (pinball). Go to Nagoya, pinball central, and you'll see salarymen aplenty. I think some poorer people here spend more time cashing in bottles to get the extra groszy they need, rather than playing pinball and puggies. In Scotland, we let the people decide. We don't see it as a major vice to be stamped out.

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Dec 5, 09, 14:19 #14

I partially agree with what has been already said, but at the same time I have to say I really don't like all these gambling "Joker" clubs popping out around every corner, shady/drunk people usually hang around them, lots of scruffy looking fellows inside. I think that the surroundings of such places is pretty dangerous and there's lots of them. There was none like year and a half ago, now I think there's around 20 in my home town, they are virtually everywhere. I was at a petrol station yesterday, one of those with a big shop and shelfs full of "more expensive and luxurious" products. And next to them in the corner some filthy, sloppy fellow stooping over a one arm bandit machine and scowling at me. I say efff it, I don't wanna see that crap on the streets. Close all of these shanty places. The idea of a 1 or 2 big casinos per one city is a better idea than lots of these little cesspits everywhere..

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Dec 5, 09, 14:43 #15

frd:

I partially agree with what has been already said, but at the same time I have to say I really don't like all these gambling "Joker" clubs popping out around every corner, shady/drunk people usually hang around them, lots of scruffy looking fellows inside.

This is the thing - they should simply legislate to get rid of them, while keeping them in pubs/etc where they belong. Or of course, they could simply make the maximum prize no more than 25zl - which would instantly spoilt the attraction for "kurwa boys" and the like, while still allowing them to be used as entertainment. A 25zl top prize (more in casinos, though!) would also put a stop to such 'Joker' clubs instantly.

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Dec 5, 09, 14:56 #16

That goes against the thrill of the gamble though, delph. I'm not seeking to defend gambling here but it's a legal way of life for some people. Look at the lottery, could you imagine the jackpot being lowered to 1000PLN? Nobody would play.

Business is one big risk too, more so in some industries. Should we always perform the rescue function at the expense of personal choice and entertainment? It is damaging for families but it is for them to work it out.

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Dec 6, 09, 22:44 #17

delphiandomine:

This is the thing - they should simply legislate to get rid of them

Politicians should legislate to get rid of themselves.

delphiandomine:

Or of course, they could simply make the maximum prize no more than 25zl

Such move would only create black market. People are to large extend able to omit unreasonable bureaucratic regulations. During communist period many things were easy to obtain but only on the black market. Regulation of prices never work.

While stupid people do many stupid things and we should let them to learn from their own mistakes instead to enslave whole population by giving them treatment suitable only for mentally retarded.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 6, 09, 22:48 #18
"Politicians should legislate to get rid of themselves". One of the best quotes on PF for a long time. Nice one, lesser! That should be framed somewhere. Again, true about the black market. Many Poles are hard-headed and wouldn't accept such a decision. They would go head-to-head with the police and refuse to go along with the intrusive decision.

KsysiaThreads: 39 Posts: 545 Joined: May 6, 09 ♀	Dec 6, 09, 23:22 #19
Seanus: "Politicians should legislate to get rid of themselves". One of the best quotes on PF for a long time. Nice one, lesser! Brilliant! aren't we back to the antiquity in that aspect?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 6, 09, 23:33 #20
What defence have the Polish government got for making that change? Social evolution? New-found morality? Curbing gross profits by proprietors? The way I see it, the principle has remained the same through time and are they facing up to the mafia by outlawing it?

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Dec 7, 09, 02:21 #21

Seanus:

What defence have the Polish government got for making that change? Social evolution? New-found morality? Curbing gross profits by proprietors?

It may be, as suggested above, a useful way of cutting money laundering without making it too obvious publicly. I don't think most people disagree that 'Joker kiosks' are a blot on the landscape, but apart from that, it seems like a cheap way to steal votes from PiS.

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Dec 7, 09, 12:20 #22

Poland could be entering the murky waters of politicians getting in on the act and setting up secret accounts for their own private gain. An expert in the field, Mike Ruppert, gave a presentation about accrued profits from money laundering by the CIA. They set up accounts in NYC to dump the profits from dealings in South America.

As lesser said, the problem will merely be driven underground but still under the watchful eye of those that like to operate 'na lewo'. They will find ways to keep the profits rolling in, they always do.

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Edited by: sledz Dec 7, 09, 13:29 #23

mbiernat:

These are not casinos, just every little bar has installed these gambling machines and poor people are sitting at them putting their weeks earnings in them.

I know these Poker machines very well, I wouldnt play any machine in a bar.

There is a payout setting switch which you can adjust to practically never payoff.

Most places set it a 30/70 but it can be raised higher

Save your money the only one that wins is the owner of the machine and the bar:)

anton888Threads: 1 Posts: 103 Joined: Jun 5, 09 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 16:10 #24
I just heard that they can't control if ppl gambling on internet but they check with the banks to find out whoever withdraw money from internet gambling site and then tax the amount 40% plus a heavy fine. They do not count the amount you depoosit to the site but only how much you withdraw. Is it true? Can they do that? I also heard that already a few ppl get into trouble...

db1874Threads: 10 Posts: 251 Joined: Jun 28, 07 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 16:34 #25
this law wont happen, the Polish government forgot they were in the eu. http://www.thenews.pl/business/?id=123895

anton888Threads: 1 Posts: 103 Joined: Jun 5, 09 ♂	Jan 21, 10, 17:52 #26
I also think that they can't do it but in fact it became law from 1st Jan, and they did put someone in trouble I heard, and there are some issue now with EU

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Jan 21, 10, 18:18 #27

anton888:

I just heard that they can't control if ppl gambling on internet but they check with the banks to find out whoever withdraw money from internet gambling site and then tax the amount 40% plus a heavy fine. They do not count the amount you depoosit to the site but only how much you withdraw. Is it true? Can they do that?

There's a lot of rumour and misinformation flying around. I haven't heard anything definitive, but I'm not a lawyer and don't know if there was a provision in the Gambling Act to allow withdrawals to be taxed at that amount.

Anyway, anyone intelligent would simply get a Netteller account with associated pre-pay debit card. And this is what I suspect many have done - or even easier, simply open a bank account offshore.

PazThreads: 2 Posts: 20 Joined: Jan 25, 10 ♂	Jan 25, 10, 20:48 #28
Sigh. Is gambling popular in Poland today?

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Edited by: newagedoc Feb 7, 12, 21:41 #29

There are many info on the web regarding polish gambling law . Is here someone who can give us more details ? I can see no more activity since Jan 25, 10 . delphiandomine I would like to ask you a few questions but I can't contact you directly yet , because I am new here . Please reply me . Thankyou in advance.

this something useful , but nothing recent yet
"The new law has been criticised both in Poland and abroad. Even though Lech Kaczynski, the Polish President, signed the Act, he has still asked the Constitutional Court to rule whether the new law conflicts with the Polish constitution. Therefore, future amendments or a suspension of the new Act are possible.

Polish newspapers also report that Guenter Verheugen, the vice-president of the European Commission, has taken an interest in the Polish gambling law because it may have been adopted in violation of EU law. This could also result in the suspension of part or all of the Act. "

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