New Polish Light Tank

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Nov 26, 10, 18:29 #1

That's the light tank that will probably replace 1200 old Polish BWPs...

...it has 120 mm Ruag CTG cannon, active protection system, 3 people crew (plus space for
4 infantry soldiers), and can fire 10 shots a minute.

Gallery at wp.pl:

http://finanse.wp.pl/gid,12833633,galeria.html?T[page]=1

Hopefully, the model will enter mass production in three years time and significantly
increase the firepower and operational capabilities of Wojsko Polskie.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Nov 26, 10, 18:31 #2
Does Poland need tanks? I'd figure that money would be better spent to help Poland be able to maintain air superiority in the case of offensive or defensive conflict. Also, 120mm is a big gun for a light tank. Why not use a much cheaper and lighter armored vehicle? What would be the mission for these things?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Nov 26, 10, 18:33 #3
Considering the geography of our country (that it's mainly flat lowlands), I think that tanks are a vital part of our defense system.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Nov 26, 10, 18:35 #4
Torq: Considering the geography of our country (that it's mainly flat lowlands), I think that tanks are a vital part of our defense system. Without air superiority, tanks for defense will be worthless (See Iraq circa Jan 1991, or more recently, Georgia, Aug 2008).

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Edited by: Torq Nov 26, 10, 18:38 #5

convex:

Without air superiority, tanks for defense will be worthless (See Iraq circa Jan 1991).

Of course, air superiority is very important as well, and I'm sure the efforts will be made
to increase capabilities of our air force. We have to keep balanced development of all
army branches (even though the funds are limited.)

Besides, as long as Germany and Russia keep tanks in their arsenals, I think Poland should
keep them as well (and work on modernization of Wojska Pancerne.)

♂

Edited by: convex Nov 26, 10, 18:42 #6

Torq:

Of course, air superiority is very important as well, and I'm sure the efforts will be made
to increase capabilities of our air force as well.

Air superiority is the single most important element for Poland for the reasons that you mentioned earlier. It's flat, tanks don't do well in flat country. Especially light tanks.

Torq:

Besides, as long as Germany and Russia keep tanks in their arsenals, I think Poland should
keep them as well (and work on modernization of Wojska Pancerne.)

I think Poland should take that money and invest heavily in training a militia and light ground force and dump the rest into the AF. Like you mentioned, Poland has zero advantage on the ground...In the air, it's an even battlefield.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Nov 26, 10, 18:44 #7
convex: I think Poland should take that money and invest heavily in training a militia and light ground force I keep saying that as well - strong territorial defence is indispensible for Poland. I still want those new tanks though - they're cool :) Kinda like cavalry - imagine 1200 Anders Light Tanks charging through Polish lowlands! Definitely want them.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 26, 10, 18:45 #8
Why don't you buy more Leopards??? They are the best and you make your neighbour happy... :) goes hugging a Leopard

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,856 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 18:49 #9
Bratwurst Boy: Why don't you buy more Leopards??? They are the best and you make your neighbour happy... Yes probably, but like with other German technique(plans, cars, PCs,...). Ours is too expensive ;-)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Nov 26, 10, 18:49 #10
Bratwurst Boy: Why don't you buy more Leopards??? I think we will - I read an article in one of the latest "Polska Zbrojna" issues that mentioned buying some Leopards (newer versions) too. So we will have strong heavy tanks units too. So far, our 11th Panzer Cavalry Divison from Żagań (the so-called "black" division), armed with Leopards, is the best panzer unit in Wojsko Polskie :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 26, 10, 18:50 #11
Torq: So far, our 11th Panzer Cavalry Divison from Żagań (the so-called "black" division), armed with Leopards, is the best Panzer unit in Wojsko Polskie :) Great! :) Now about your helmets...

♂

Nov 26, 10, 18:54 #12

Bratwurst Boy:

Why don't you buy more Leopards??? They are the best and you make your neighbour happy...

The Leopard and the Anders aren't meant for the same mission.

Torq:

*I still want those new tanks though - they're cool :) Kinda like cavalry - imagine
1200 Anders Light Tanks charging through Polish lowlands! Definitely want them.*

*sigh*, I see 1200 smoldering heaps of twisted metal if crap did make contact with the fan... Tanks, in the open...every ground attack pilots dream.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 18:58 #13
Torq: New Polish Light Tank - Anders It's Mostly based on the Swedish CV90 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_90 but with a different gun, looks like the Leopard 2's Rheinmetall 120 mm smoothbore gun. And also named after a Polish German General Anders ;)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Anders

♂ [Suspended]

Nov 26, 10, 19:03 #14

Torq:

I keep saying that as well - strong territorial defence is indispensible for Poland.

Yup - even though conventional wisdom says that NATO will come to Poland's need, it certainly wouldn't hurt to have a decent reserve built up of people who know the basics of taking a gun and using it.

I suppose Poland is in an awkward position though - being on the edge of NATO, they need to have enough forces to defend themselves to even put themselves in a position where a citizen's militia can cause real fear among the (already hurt) occupying force.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 26, 10, 19:05 #15
convex: The Leopard and the Anders aren't meant for the same mission. You mean the Leopard is Anders??? ...okay...bad joke... :):):) Named after a polish-german general, huh? Interesting! :)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 19:10 #16
Bratwurst Boy: Why don't you buy more Leopards??? They are the best and you make your neighbour happy... They are the best, the American M1 Abrams has the Leopards gun and the British Challenger's armor. On the future battlefield light fast tanks are gonna be the choice, but that time isn't now and it seams like the Polish Army took this approach as a cheaper substitute.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 19:12 #17
Are Germans the only ones giving their armor animal names???

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 19:12 #18
Bratwurst Boy: Named after a polish-german general, huh? Interesting! :) Yes father was a Baltic-German

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 20:01 #19
Bratwurst Boy: Why don't you buy more Leopards??? Poland has never bought any Leo's.The ones Poland have were donated (Poland paid euro 1 for all of them).

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 26, 10, 20:12 #20
Torq: Hopefully, the model will enter mass production in three years time and significantly increase the firepower and operational capabilities of Wojsko Polskie. might do well in the international arms market

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 20:35 #21
Wroclaw: might do well in the international arms market As long as the sales aren't handled by Bumar

POLENGGGsThreads: 5 Posts: 211 Joined: Apr 26, 10 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 20:54 #22
ein Anderer . Why Not Jaruzelski it has that jist of Holy Land Old City to it ! :-)

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 21:45 #23
air force will be equalized with stingers teams that is attached to each platoon, by having more tanks means you could out last their air force.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Nov 29, 10, 23:31 #24
Bratwurst Boy: Are Germans the only ones giving their armor animal names??? Well, Ukraine calls its T-84 series Flying tanks. Leopard may crawl and climb trees, but what about flying? ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-84

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Nov 29, 10, 23:38 #25
Bratwurst Boy: Are Germans the only ones giving their armor animal names??? Hmmm... I know that there was an Polish motorbike with a name: Sokół (a type of bird) and some airplanes like Łoś (Moose) had animal names. But I can't remember that tanks had any :/

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Nov 30, 10, 05:15 #26
Mr Grunwald: and some airplanes like Łoś (Moose) A bit discouraging for a name of a plane ;) Tank - yes, but plane... Unless it flies over fields and spreads fertilizers :)

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Nov 30, 10, 07:33 #27
convex: sigh, I see 1200 smoldering heaps of twisted metal if crap did make contact with the fan... Tanks, in the open...every ground attack pilots dream. I don't know, Rommel used tanks effectively in N. Africa, that's pretty wide open. You always need tanks to support infantry. The speedier the better. I like the chassis of this thing.. nice design.

A JThreads: 19 Posts: 4,639 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Nov 30, 10, 10:18 #28
Torq: Anders It's funny though, Anders literally means ''Different'' in Holland, so this tank must be something else! :)

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Nov 30, 10, 11:51 #29
Nathan: Leopard may crawl and climb trees, but what about flying? ;) Don't know, but they are easily spotted! Of course, the big question is, whether these tanks can cope with the roads in Warmia-Mazury, Suwalki and Polska B.

♂

Nov 30, 10, 23:09 #30

Trevek:

Of course, the big question is, whether these tanks can cope with the roads in Warmia-Mazury, Suwalki and Polska B.

If these regions are marshy and mellowy than Leopards won't be able to maneuver properly, maybe, even to move. It is very nice piece of machinery, but it is 2 times as expensive as let say Ukrainian T-84 Oplot and 1.5 times as heavy. So, for the same price one can buy 2 tanks with better maneuverability, the same speed parameters and + airconditioning going down to -40C, which is nice when you drive it west of Oder on a hot summer day ;) In addition, Oplot has 26 power/weight ratio which is unsurpassed neither by German Leopard, nor by Russian T-90. So, if Poland, which has plenty of its own military production, still would be interested in purchasing new tanks - well, why not buy them from Ukraine instead of Germany at a significant financial advantage to itself. Saved money could be used on making Poland a powerhouse of EU or investing into radar system and aircrafts which are always a big deal in the modern warfare.

Trevek:

Don't know, but they are easily spotted!

Who does that? They have enough spots to notice them anyway ;)

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New Polish Light Tank - Anders