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Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?


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RyszardThreads: -
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Ryszard  Jan 7, 09, 12:51    #91
Bratwurst Boy:

He didn't had anything to admit Rys...it was announced before that Russia would do it as it is their right.
You can't really expect an unpaid free ride for Ukraine, don't you?


Frankly, I don't give a damn if Ukraine really paid or not - because if Russia wanted to play fair with their EU partners then she would not shut the pipe off, at the very least not so quickly and decisive.
It is obvious that sooner or later Russia and Ukraine are fated to sign new contract - until then, EU being warned could brace yourself for the troubles.
Ah, and they could ask for EU observers before shutting down the pipe to confirm that - as they claim - Ukraine is really stealing the gas. They didn't do it. Why? The answer is obvious... because EU observers would notice that with Ukraine transit everything is fine...

Bratwurst Boy:
Remind me again...who is not paying???


Remind me again... who is claiming that Ukraine did not pay?
The same liars from Gazprom, who whole day were claiming that they didn't shut the pipe today until Putin finally said that "yes, they did"?

Oh and Germany is Russias biggest trading partner in Europe..we make serious good business quite well, thank you!

Till some day, when the leash will be short and strong enough - and then Putin will say: sit! And the german doggies will obey...
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jan 7, 09, 13:05    #92
Ryszard:

I don't give a damn if Ukraine really paid or not


Well...that's the core of the whole bruhaha!
You should think about it before you start to throw around your political blames...

Ryszard:

And the german doggies will obey...


Maybe we should then just cut off our negotiated delivery of german goods? :)

Because that's what this "leash" is about. They pay good money for "Made in
Germany"!
RyszardThreads: -
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 13:17    #93
Bratwurst Boy:
Maybe we should then just cut off our negotiated delivery of german goods? :)


Don't worry, they will always get tons of better ones - from Japan, UK, USA or even China :) But with bratwurst could be a problem... or not? Maybe Austrian would help... bratwurst from Austria, hmm...
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 13:32    #94
Ryszard:

Don't worry, they will always get tons of better ones


Why don't they buy those instead???
Sorry if the reality disturbs your fantasy world...:)
RyszardThreads: -
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 14:38    #95
Bratwurst Boy:
Why don't they buy those instead???


And you think they don't buy them now?
If push comes to shovel all they'll have to do is to buy them even more. Instead all that "assembled in germany" (but made in china, though) thingies :)
Now, be a good pet and get back to your training. You don't want to dissapoint your russian masters, do you?
eastprussianThreads: -
Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 9, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 15:01    #96
...ahhhh....

When Nordstream starts up, that would be a most excellent day, indeed.

...sure can't wait...bye-bye silly little annoying transit countries.

isn't that a pip?
Crnogorac7Threads: 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Oct 10, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 16:04    #97
All this is part of a game of chess, and Rusi have the cannon (=gas) extra...

EU alone is shivering and it is paradoxical that it's pinning it's hopes that in future such things will not happen, on a direct gas pipeline from Russia - Germany, which is planned under the Baltic sea, how it would go around "problematic" Poland, Ukraine and Belorussia...

1


Former chancellor Schroeder is one of the major faces in Russian Gazprom (which delivers that gas), and that Gazprom is proudly prominent on the jersey of FC Schalke.

1
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jan 7, 09, 16:07    #98
Ryszard:

And you think they don't buy them now?


Erm...they can buy what and where they want.
But the business between Russia and Germany is excellent!
As long as they pay they get their goods - that's the market laws..
You should tell Ukraine about these basics sometimes!

Crnogorac7:

and it is paradoxical that it's pinning it's hopes that in future such things will not happen, on a direct gas pipeline from Russia - Germany


Not "paradoxical" - logical!
eastprussianThreads: -
Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 9, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 09, 16:15    #99
I suppose the transit countries would really miss those "transit fees"...

Oh well, no big loss at all for the rest of Europe. That is what this is really about anyways- transit fees, more like, the loss of THOSE prized transit fees that THOSE silly little transit countries cherish.

I reiterate....bring on Nordstream.
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 09, 07:45    #100
Europe gas crisis boosts Schroeder pipeline plan:

"Russia has set a goal at diversifying our delivery routes for gas," Putin told journalists at his residence Thursday outside Moscow.

"If we had already built this pipeline, if no one had hampered us, it would already be operating through the Baltic Sea."

That's why Russia cut the gas supplies (at least one of the most important reasons).
rdywenurThreads: 5
Posts: 175
Joined: Jun 28, 08 ♀ 		 Jan 14, 09, 08:50    #101
I am not familiar with Nord Stream but Nordstrom's can do major damage to my pocketbook. :P
blaze022Threads: -
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan 5, 09 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 09, 09:40    #102
i actually agree that the nordstream is a good idea,
If not for anything else, it will cut out the middle man, bring down overall gas prices as noone will be paid transit fee's,

It is not russias fault that the ukraine cannot pay for the gas they need,
Just imagine if they had to pay what the rest of europe pay,
Ukraine enjoyd the free ride they got from russia, and when they wanted the full transit price russia said fine, pay the full price of the gas, from what i understand of it....

Now it was fine for the ukraine to ask for the full price of the transit tarrifs,
Nothing has been said about that,
But when russia retaliated everyone had something to say.

Ukraine needss to pay for the gas pure and simple,
Yes russia was in the wrong cutting gas off so quick,
But the ukraine shouldnt have(suposidly) stolen gas, and they should have paid what was asked of them.
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Moderator  Jan 14, 09, 09:41    #103
[quote]Environmental and geopolitical concerns mix in EP objections to Nord Stream project
The 8th of July, 2008.

The planned Nord Stream pipeline along the seabed of the Baltic Sea worries MEPs for both environmental and geopolitical reasons. In a report adopted by 542 votes in favour, 60 against and 38 abstentions, the EP calls on Commission and Council to be more actively involved in evaluating the potential environmental impact of this gas pipeline.

Copied from: http://www.balticsea.lt/en

Please pay attention to Rule 11 of [Privacy, TOS, Rules], which can be found at the bottom of the page.
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 09, 09:48    #104
REPORT: Environmental impact of the planned gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea to link up Russia and Germany
eastprussianThreads: -
Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 9, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 14, 09, 17:34    #105
transit fees...nothing more.

Just bypass all the little annoying transit countries.
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 09, 16:53    #106
Nord Stream: Not Just a Pipeline A report of the norwegian Fridjof Nansen Institute

Nord Stream, Sweden and Baltic Sea Security Robert Larsson, Swedish Defence Research Agency

Excessive Pipeline Projects of Gazprom

Nord Stream and South Stream pipelines would have been unable to help Eastern Europe

A collection of articles about Nord Stream, written by Grigory Pasko, a russian dissident journalist

NB! Legal framework for environmental impact assessment has been established with the Espoo Convention. Russia has signed this convention but not ratified it!
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 15, 09, 23:05    #107
Environmental issues get a backseat when western Europe starts to freeze....
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 16, 09, 13:04    #108
Western Europe (including Germany) is sleepwalking into Russian vassalage.

Pipeline politics? Russia and the EU's battle for energy
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 18, 09, 17:41    #109
A report concerning chemical weapons dumped in the Baltic Sea
Sea-Dumped Chemical Weapons: An Old Problem Resurfaces
Chemical and conventional ammunition in the Baltic Sea

The International Maritime Organization has included the Baltic Sea on the list of Particularly Sensitive Sea Areas.
PrinceThreads: 26
Posts: 826
Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 31, 09, 11:28    #110
Sweden will not rush into approval of the construction of Nord Stream project

http://bnott.com/5572.html

“We understand the need for the project, but we can not go against our domestic laws,” - Kalgren said at a meeting in Brussels.

Earlier, members of the Swedish Parliament and government officials have repeatedly spoken against the construction of the North-European gas pipeline, because it is, they say, could harm fisheries and environmental situation in the Baltic Sea. Particularly dangerous dumping of chemical weapons of Nazi Germany, which can meet Nord Stream gas pipeline under construction.
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 09, 20:32    #111
We don’t need this annual outburst of pipeline politics
PohlatohlakasThreads: -
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 09, 20:52    #112
Nord Stream worries St. Petersburg
jwojcieThreads: 3
Posts: 801
Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 9, 09, 13:04    #113
Yes, it is, because when Russia stops pumping through Jamal and stops selling gas for Poland, then we will have to burn all the coal we've got...

But seriously, dear fellow citizens of Poland, please kindly
1. look at this:
celinski:
http://www.eegas.com/fsu.htm

2. try to google a few minutes for info regarding Russia position in Arctic sea dispute
3. find out about amount of gas which could be under this sea
4. once more look at 1.

Simple enough? This pipeline will be build whether we like it or not. And it will be full of gas for a long time. The only thing we can do is to swallow it and join them.

PS. I'm not some Russia lover. I'm just rational.
PrinceThreads: 26
Posts: 826
Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Prince  Feb 11, 09, 20:14    #114
Poland has cut off gas by Russians ... last country in EU without supplies... after Ukrianian crisise.

All other countries have gas, Russians don't want to give Poland gas we have paid for.

I don't want to think what is going to happen after Nord stream being build.
PrinceThreads: 26
Posts: 826
Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 09, 20:54    #115
It is february and we don't have gas ... we have paid for.

http://unian.net/eng/news/news-299044.html

Poland`s national gas monopoly said Wednesday it is still suffering significant shortages in gas deliveries coming through Ukraine, long after a deal between Moscow and Kiev ended a bitter pricing dispute that prompted a temporary halt to supplies, AP reported.

Polskie Gornictwo Naftowe i Gazownictwo (PGNiG) is receiving only 76 percent of its total contracted deliveries
RyszardThreads: -
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 11, 09, 22:57    #116
This 24% shortage is only mere prelude for what will happen, if the Ribbentrop-Molotov pipe opens.
In the meantime what EU is doing? NOTHING.
I guess, we'll have to take our part from German one - then the case will suddenly become the one of the highest importance. Of course, with Poland as guilty of all the mess.
PrinceThreads: 26
Posts: 826
Joined: Nov 4, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 12, 09, 00:51    #117
Nord Stream is strange project.

First of all it is very dangerous for enviroment.

Secondly it is much more expenisve.

At the end it is political project. Russia wants to regian control over central and eastern european countries.
Marco78Threads: 2
Posts: 16
Joined: Feb 11, 09 ♂ 		 Feb 12, 09, 22:53    #118
I think North Stream do a good job! They build a gas pipe line to Germany directly from Russia,,, this is needed since the conflicts between eastern european countries blaming each other makes the supplies unreliable,,

is it only me who think its strange that suddenly now Poles, latvians, Estonians and Ukriainians seem to care so much about enviremental issues ???!! ,:-)

I mean they love there cole-plants, they love their overfishing and their dirkty cars!

but a gas-pipe - catastrophy! ,:-) LOL !

seems like its bitter to se their transit power disapair? ,:-)

===============================================

PS: I LOVE Poles! I just cant listen to those easterneuropean conflicts which are so without logic, without saying anything...

Russians, Poles, Latvians etc shoulc cooperate instead! I have many Polish friends and many Russian friends - they are VERY simular! and very nice!
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 12, 09, 23:00    #119
Marco78:
is it only me who think its strange that suddenly now Poles, latvians, Estonians and Ukriainians seem to care so much about enviremental issues ???!! ,:-)

Genau
RyszardThreads: -
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 12, 09, 23:54    #120
Marco78:
this is needed since the conflicts between eastern european countries

Could you name exactly what kind of conflict restrains Gazprom from sending 24% of contracted gas to Poland now?

Marco78:
but a gas-pipe - catastrophy! ,:-) LOL !

Yes, catastrophy to the natural enviroment. In the depths of Baltic there are tons of chemical weapons from both World Wars. It's ecological time bomb, which should be someday disarmed. But building Nord Stream is not the way to do this, in fact it's quite the opposite.

Marco78:
is it only me who think its strange that suddenly now Poles, latvians, Estonians and Ukriainians seem to care so much about enviremental issues ???!! ,:-)

How about Sweden, are they disallowed to care about enviroment too?

Marco78:
PS: I LOVE Poles! I just cant listen to those easterneuropean conflicts which are so without logic, without saying anything...

Then start to listen carefully instead dwelling in ignorance.

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