Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?

RyszardThreads: - Posts: 123 Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 09, 21:59 #181
Seanus: Yes, Richard, look at post 163 above That's funny, because from the links you've provided, about the quota of current shortage I could find only this: Poland has been receiving only 76% of the contracted gas from Russia since Jan 26, when deliveries under a deal with Ukrainian gas intermediary RosUkrEnergo stopped entirely

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 09, 22:05 #182
My sincerest apologies ma man, here, http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Polish-company-Gazprom-boosts-apf-142864 69.html I hope this enlightens you better than I offered before.

RyszardThreads: - Posts: 123 Joined: Aug 7, 07 ♂	Feb 18, 09, 01:26 #183
This time much better indeed, thanks :)

PohlatohlakasThreads: - Posts: 28 Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂	Mar 12, 09, 13:54 #184
Nord Stream Espoo Report This document should not be considered particularly credible, with several environmental risks (for example, dioxins and dumped munitions) being grossly underestimated.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 12, 09, 14:05 #185
Bias of course lying behind it. This is to be expected. A bit like the reports after 9/11 with governmental backing.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Mar 19, 09, 20:57 #186
Pohlatohlakas: A report of the norwegian Fridjof Nansen Institute Proudness :) Even if Russia is right, or their not to be blaimed I blaim them. :) I strongly disagree with most cases they come up with! When they stop sending U-Boats to our coastline I will ignore them!

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Mar 28, 09, 20:59 #187

Opening Salvos of a New Gas War: Russia Versus the EU and Ukraine

At the heart of the matter are a number of issues vital for Russian interests; maintaining its gas hold over Europe and its geopolitical goal of bringing Ukraine into Russia's sphere of influence. If the through-put capacity of the Ukrainian pipeline is expanded by almost 60 billion cubic meters there would be no commercial justification for building either the Nord Stream or South Stream pipelines.

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Edited by: Nathan Mar 28, 09, 21:15 #188

Pohlatohlakas:

If the through-put capacity of the Ukrainian pipeline is expanded by almost 60 billion cubic meters there would be no commercial justification for building either the Nord Stream or South Stream pipelines.

Absolutely and it is possible and less expensive.

Pohlatohlakas:

geopolitical goal of bringing Ukraine into Russia's sphere of influence

True. This is 90% what Russia is after. They don't need another gas line. They want to build it in order to turn off the gas when Ukraine doesn't behave the way Russia wants. Ukraine doesn't earn a cent when the gas stays undelivered by Russia through the pipe. So it is definately not in Ukrainian interests to switch it off (what for?), moreover it is being supplied by it as well. I am happy to hear the news of new contract being signed by European Union and Ukraine about updating existing pipe-lines. Smart move and billions of savings for EU budget. Poland, thanks for support.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 28, 09, 22:23 #189
Nathan: Absolutely and it is possible and less expensive. Better safe with an alternative than sorry...I don't trust the Ukraine to deliver the gas to western Europe when they themselves are freezing because they can't pay the Russians.

PohlatohlakasThreads: - Posts: 28 Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂	Mar 28, 09, 22:47 #190
How gas flows to Europe - Pipeline projects I'd add White Stream and Trans–Saharan gas pipeline, bringing Nigerian gas to the Mediterranean coast and further to Europe.

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Edited by: Nathan Mar 29, 09, 03:05 #191

Bratwurst Boy:

I don't trust the Ukraine to deliver the gas to western Europe when they themselves are freezing because they can't pay the Russians.

It is Ukraine, not the Ukraine, btw.
Don't trust. This is not the problem. The problem lies in the fact that instead of diversifying its suppliers European Union was about to sign a contract to build two pipelines coming from Russia which you trust , BB. I completely agree with Pohlatohlakas when he says of some other sources. Great idea. I think Iran or Iraq would be great for EU. It doesn't have to go through Ukraine. It can pass through Turkey and Bulgaria, so you are safe and secure. Norway, Trans-space, Deep-Earth lines, whatever, but diversify. Otherwise, you will have winters like this one again. And , by the way, Ukraine never shut off the gas that was intended for EU. I will find you a link that says about EU delegates who support that. We had a porblem with Russia money-wise, but it doesn't mean they had to cut off your gas, BB. Also don't forget the environmental tragedy these could have caused if built.

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Edited by: Moderator Mar 31, 09, 19:32 #192

NordStream spells ecological disaster in the Baltic

Despite Russian and German claims that this is a bilateral project, in fact, it concerns all European countries, especially those located at the Baltic Sea. There is a serious risk that the chemical weapons deposited in the sea bed (both from WWII and post-war years), organic contamination and heavy metals may be released during construction work with disastrous effects.

PohlatohlakasThreads: - Posts: 28 Joined: Nov 28, 08 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 14:51 #193
Russia needs to build Nord Stream pipeline to win "gas war" A report by russian dissident journalist Yuliya Latynina.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 4, 09, 16:50 #194
What "gas war"? Russia has the gas and you not...there is no war! It means that Russia has lost the gas war with Ukraine Yeah....suuuure... http://www.nord-stream.com/en.html?no_cache=1

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Apr 4, 09, 18:56 #195

Bratwurst Boy:

It means that Russia has lost the gas war with Ukraine

Haha.. Why do you quote yourself? You make up things and then quote yourself? Cool. Nobody lost anything. Luckily for many European countries, not Germany and Russia - friends and lovers, Nord Stream isn't going to be built. Baltic will stay relatively clean and fish will live there. EU will find some other ways to supply itself with gas, no doubt.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 4, 09, 19:21 #196

Nathan:

Why do you quote yourself?

That wasn't my "smart" idea to call it a "gas war" or to state the Ukraine "won" it...

Nathan:

Baltic will stay relatively clean and fish will live there.

Germany is a world leader in green, environmental friendly politics and technology for decades now! Ukraine is so not!
When you use arguments then please be honest at least and don't pretend you give a shit about the baltic see and her fish!

Nathan:

EU will find some other ways to supply itself with gas, no doubt.

There wouldn't be no need to search for other ways if the Ukraine would be a reliable partner...
For western Europeans (not only Germans!) it looks like countries like Ukraine are the "choke" on Europe, unreliable disrupting the gas deliveries either because of neglect of the pipelines or bad will due differences with Russia or no money to pay for their own gas hence stealing from the gas bought by western Europe etc.etc.etc, not Russia, sorry...

Oh and Nathan...Germany isn't your enemy!
Just recently the EU agreed to help to renovate the ukrainian pipelines...something the Ukraine should do by herself but can't.
2.5 Bln $ EU money, lot's of it german money and through german support!
Think about it....

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Edited by: Nathan Apr 4, 09, 19:43 #197

Bratwurst Boy:

There wouldn't be no need to search for other ways if the Ukraine would be a reliable partner...
For western Europeans (not only Germans!) it looks like countries like Ukraine are the "choke" on Europe, unreliable disrupting the gas deliveries either because of neglect of the pipelines or bad will due differences with Russia or no money to pay for their own gas hence stealing from the gas bought by western Europe etc.etc.etc, not Russia, sorry...

Bratwurst Boy
Member
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Joined: Apr 2, 07

Support these words of yours with EU statements, please, be so kind. Find some for me, especially about "choke". And again don't quote yourself in your answer.

Bratwurst Boy:

Germany is a world leader in green, environmental friendly politics and technology for decades now! Ukraine is so not!
When you use arguments then please be honest at least and don't pretend you give a shit about the baltic see and her fish

If so many environmental specialists say it is dangerous and will cause a catastrophy, what it means is Germany again is "smarter"?
Yes, I care about environment. And I eat fish as well. Polish sledzie and sprats from Lithuania. So don't say I don't give a crap. Just become a bit more humane after what you did in 20th century with your lovers - Russians. Hmm. "green leaders"

And about the money. You do it for your own sake. It is a business and more profitable for you, isn't? Thanks anyway.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 4, 09, 20:02 #198

Where do I quote myself?

And yes, I love to eat fish too and I dare to say that Germany does much more for clean waters than Ukraine!
Do you even have a green party?

Nathan:

Just become a bit more humane after what you did in 20th century with your lovers

Oh puuuuleeeeeeze!

Nathan:

Thanks anyway.

Then make up your mind...either a second Ribbentrop-Molotov pact or help.
Believe me...we are not happy to pay for Ukrainians duties. And of course we do it "for our own sake". We need functioning pipelines! We need the gas!!!
Ukraine can't be trusted with either the delivery nor the maintaining of the needed infrastructure...
Here you have a reason why we need alternatives first hand!

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Edited by: Nathan Apr 4, 09, 20:09 #199

Bratwurst Boy:

Then make up your mind...either a second Ribbentrop-Molotov pact or help.
Believe me...we are not happy to pay for Ukrainians duties.
Here you have a reason why we need alternatives first hand!

Help? Are you saying that bank helps you when you buy a house? Maybe, but then you help bank to keep its employees and earn interests.
Ribbentrop-Molotov...haha.. I know you will not forget that. I wouldn't expect less from either side of love di-angle :)
You are not happy? Then build Nord Stream or anyone forces you otherwise? If the Germany didn't trust Ukraine it wouldn't engage in the work. Or the Germany is also a love leader besides green one and sacrifices its interests for the sake of love?
And btw, I thanked for a good transaction - nothing else.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 4, 09, 20:11 #200
It seems a serious discussion is beyond your means, how disappointing! takes coat

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 20:14 #201
Likewise.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 22:03 #202
Nathan: It is Ukraine, not the Ukraine, btw. Btw you may easily see both variants in media. Moreover "the Ukraine" is the way how many Ukrainian journalists prefer to call your country obviously implying confederation withing Ukraine.

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Apr 4, 09, 23:28 #203

Sasha:

Btw you may easily see both variants in media. Moreover "the Ukraine" is the way how many Ukrainian journalists prefer to call your country obviously implying confederation withing Ukraine.

Show me two names of Ukrainian journalists (I even don't say "many") who use "the" in front of Ukraine. It is not correct. "implying confederation" of what? Russia is a confederation of many republics and nations. Ukraine is a unitarian state.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Apr 4, 09, 23:49 #204
Sasha: Btw you may easily see both variants in media This may give the answer. http://www.torugg.org/ukraine_or_the_ukraine.html Some things take time. Remember: the only country at the Pekin Olympics... was Poland. All the other teams were in Beijing

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Apr 4, 09, 23:57 #205
Wroclaw: This may give the answer Thank you, Wroclaw.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 5, 09, 00:32 #206
I never knew the tiny "the" is such a huge problem in your corner, what a funny people!

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Apr 14, 09, 22:38 #207

Bratwurst Boy:

Bratwurst Boy
Apr 5, 09, 00:32

#206

I never knew the tiny "the" is such a huge problem in your corner, what a funny people! lol

Is your entire purpose for being in this forum merely to instigate and and belittle people?
Your clearly anti-Polish, a biggot, and you seem to have a superiority complex.
Look up and behind you, its Mother America looking down on you.
Relax, stop hating, you'll live longer.
Is you by the way?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09 ♂	Edited by: Salomon Apr 17, 09, 12:43 #208
Read this debate... In moment when Americans will leave this part of europe ... Poland left in imaginative partnership with Germany is going to have problems. Germans are closer in their policies to Russia and it is not possible to be more importnant partner for Germans than Russians are. What is more it is possible to be closer partner for Russians than Germans are ...

leszek38Threads: - Posts: 33 Joined: Apr 5, 09 ♂	Apr 17, 09, 20:12 #209
We already were "close partner" to Russia. Have you forgot how does it feel?

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May 7, 09, 21:14 #210

Nord Stream assessment seriously underestimates environmental consequences for the Baltic Sea

WWF finds several problems in the Nord Stream EIA report, concerning undersea munitions, seabed interventions, Natura 2000 sites and other protected areas, emissions of nutrients and harmful substances from seabed sediments, route options (noting that alternative land routes through Eastern European countries was not assessed at all!), vaguely and inadequately described mitigation actions, compensation measures and monitoring programs.

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