Official language of EU (is not Polish)

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Apr 5, 10, 02:14 #1

I don't know if there was ever a thread regarding this issue but I find it ridicules that every nation (even the smallest ones) wants to speak its own language in Brussels.It already cost you guys,living in EU BILIONS of euros ,since EU has to provide hundreds of translators for parliament in Brussels and only God knows how many more elsewhere.Why not set as a law that there are TWO official languages in each and every country(except UK and Ireland ofc) of EU,national one and ENGLISH(since its most widely spoken language in the world)?Ofc I can see French and Germans opposing the idea (pride?),but I think it would strenghten integration,make expats life easier and save you some money.What do you guys think,does it make any sense?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:22 #2
Because you're thinking of the EU as a superstate, which it's not. The trade off wouldn't be worth it. The most widely spoken native language in the EU is German.

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Edited by: Arien Apr 5, 10, 02:25 #3

grubas:

What do you guys think,does it make any sense?

No, it doesn't make sense. See, translation means jobs. Jobs mean business. Business means money. Money can be spend. Spent money is good for the economy. I'm sure I make sense? Oh, and something else, some languages actually help children to be able to learn more at a later age, because of their difficulty. Some languages even stimulate the creative part of the brain in different ways than other languages would.

Pride? Maybe some American and English people are the ones who sound a bit arrogant when they tell us they expect us to give up our language, while they can't be bothered to learn a few other languages themselves? Variety is the spice of life. Different languages, habits and customs is what makes the idea of travelling so attractive to many.

:)

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Apr 5, 10, 02:30 #4

Arien:

See, translation means jobs. Jobs mean business. Business means money. Money can be spend. Spent money is good for the economy. I'm sure I make sense?

Partially. If you see a return on that investment of tax money (in this case you might through the efficiencies and benefits of the economic union). That money could be spent much more efficiently though.

If you don't see benefits to offset the billions spent on translation, you're just paying people to dig holes and fill them back up again and call it a productive job.

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Edited by: Amathyst Apr 5, 10, 02:36 #5

grubas:

I don't know if there was ever a thread regarding this issue but I find it ridicules that every nation (even the smallest ones) wants to speak its own language in Brussels.It already cost you guys,living in EU BILIONS of euros ,since EU has to provide hundreds of translators for parliament in Brussels and only God knows how many more elsewhere.Why not set as a law that there are TWO official languages in each and every country(except UK and Ireland ofc) of EU,national one and ENGLISH(since its most widely spoken language in the world)?Ofc I can see French and Germans opposing the idea (pride?),but I think it would strenghten integration,make expats life easier and save you some money.What do you guys think,does it make any sense?

That was joke right? It costs us (British tax payers) that each year in translors for material for Poles in the UK alone....So I dont get your point...Its not saving us Brits anything! We already pay a fooking fortune to the EU unlike some other countries! You were taking the pish by post this thread right?

convex:

The most widely spoken native language in the EU is German.

From what I see English and French would be more likely even or Greek! German isnt listed as a "primary" lanaguge"

Austria - German
Belgium - Dutch, French, German
Bulgaria - Bulgarian
Cyprus - Greek
Czech Republic - Czech
Denmark - Danish
Estonia - Estonian (close to Finish)
Finland - Finish
France - Frech
Germany- German
Greece - Greek
Hungary - Hungarian
Ireland - Gaglic / English
Italy - Italian
Latvia - Latvian
Lithuania - Lithuanian
Luxembourg - French (mainly)
Malta - Maltese / English
Netherlands - Dutch
Poland - Polish
Portugal - Portugues
Romania - Romanian
Slovakia - Slovankian
Slovenia - Slovenian
Spain - Spanish
Sweden - Swedish
United Kingdom - English/Welsh

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Edited by: grubas Apr 5, 10, 02:38 #6

convex:

Because you're thinking of the EU as a superstate, which it's not

Isn't EU heading this direction?

Arien:

See, translation means jobs.

Well ,you can waste the money thousends other ways.Hardly jobs creation.

Arien:

they tell us they expect us to give up our language

I do not expect anybody to give up his native language,but expect to being able to get things done in gov offices in either country's native language OR english.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 5, 10, 02:42 #7

Amathyst:

From what I see French would be more likely or Greek! German isnt listed as a "primary" lanaguge"

Ahem!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language

German (Deutsch, de-Deutsch.ogg [ˈdɔʏtʃ] (help·info)) is a West Germanic language, thus related to and classified alongside English and Dutch.
It is one of the world's major languages and the most widely spoken first language in the European Union. Globally, German is spoken by approximately 105 million native speakers and also by about 80 million non-native speakers. Standard German is widely taught in schools, universities and Goethe Institutes worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union

According to statistics the majority of EU citizens speaks German, while the absolute majority can understand English and speak German, English, French or Italian as mother languages.

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Apr 5, 10, 02:44 #8

convex:

If you don't see benefits to offset the billions spent on translation, you're just paying people to dig holes and fill them back up again and call it a productive job.

Well, I think people just need to be honest about certain jobs, because there are enough fun-jobs to be found, and other jobs that may not seem to be productive, but then again I really think that everyone who's doing atleast something is also someone who contributes to, and participates in society. Ofcourse money could be spent more efficiently, but what if all the money was spent so efficiently that it would render millions of people jobless or even completely useless? I still think that some people should make sure our wealth could be distributed a bit more fairly though.

A poorly educated or jobless person is a person too. Wether you see his or her contribution to society or not. I mean, don't doctors have a great career because of sick people? Don't psychologists and psychiatrists have a great career because of the mental problems of other people? Don't scientists sometimes do something wrong, and discover something new and useful by accident? Am I not trying to share positive ideas with many people on the internet, eventhough I'm jobless and not making money at the moment? Should everything always be about money?

:)

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,968 Joined: Nov 10, 06 ♀	Apr 5, 10, 02:45 #9
convex: That money could be spent much more efficiently though. Spent where??? You are living in Amercian and dont pay a red cent to the coffers and have no idea...Poland are doing just fine out of their membership, they hardly pay anything so you need not worry that you're ancesters are losing anything, its the rest of us that are paying the price!

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Edited by: convex Apr 5, 10, 02:46 #10

Amathyst:

That was joke right? It costs us (British tax payers) that each year in translors for material for Poles in the UK alone....So I dont get your point...Its not saving us Brits anything! We already pay a fooking fortune to the EU unlike some other countries! You were taking the pish by post this thread right?

You don't have to do all that translating. It doesn't happen anywhere else. You also didn't have to open the floodgates and allow 2 million people come in. That was pretty stupid. The crazy thing is that as a broke country, the UK is a contributing country to the EU. That's scary.

Amathyst:

From what I see French would be more likely or Greek! German isnt listed as a "primary" lanaguge"

Austria, and Germany. With little pockets in Poland, Czech Republic, Belgium, and Hungary.

18% of Europeans speak German as their first language vs. 13% for English.

Amathyst:

Spent where??? You are living in Amercian and dont pay a red cent to the coffers and have no idea...Poland are doing just fine out of their membership, they hardly pay anything so you need not worry that you're ancesters are losing anything, its the rest of us that are paying the price!

Ahem, yea close. I live the South West...of Poland that is. Anyway, I'm not going to go into the taxes thing, but most of the money we make is taxed in Germany, which of course pays way more money into the EU than the island does.

So yea, you were saying something? So, are your politicians just completely retarded or have the people been asleep since Mrs. Thatcher was running things?

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:46 #11
Amathyst, just a little correction: Italy: Italian and German France: French and German

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:49 #12
Amathyst: So I dont get your point... Yea, I can tell.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 5, 10, 02:51 #13

Okay...after the wiki link german is spoken in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_European_Union

Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Belgium, Italy, France, Denmark, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania and Hungary

whereas english is spoken in:

United Kingdom, Ireland and Malta

hmmm....

And for good measures the number three of the official EU languages, french, is spoken in:

France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Italy

Now why should english become the one and only lingua franca in the EU again?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:53 #14
Arien: Ofcourse money could be spent more efficiently, but what if all the money was spent so efficiently that it would render millions of people jobless or even completely useless? There were some folks saying the same thing about looms a while back. Just admit that we shouldn't pay people to breed, and I will agree that everyone should have a job (regardless of how unproductive).

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:53 #15
convex: The trade off wouldn't be worth it. There is no trade off.Going to gov office in lets say Lithuenia ,you would be able to get things done in either lituenian AND/OR english,in Poland either polish AND/OR english and so on.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Edited by: f stop Apr 5, 10, 02:58 #16
grubas convex: 18% of Europeans speak German as their first language vs. 13% for English. that 18% is just native speakers. Means nothing. Much more significant statistic is what are people in EU nations learning most as a second language, and English leaves all the others in the dust -> 38%. Or, that one: EU population speaking English - 51%, vs German: 32%.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:59 #17
grubas: There is no trade off.Going to gov office in lets say Lithuenia ,you would be able to get things done in either lituenian AND/OR english,in Poland either polish AND/OR english and so on. How much would that cost? How do you legally force people to learn a new language, especially when it was never a job requirement to begin with?

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 02:59 #18
convex: If you don't see benefits to offset the billions spent on translation, you're just paying people to dig holes and fill them back up again and call it a productive job. That's what I am talking about.This is YOUR money ppl and it could be spent much more efficiently.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 5, 10, 03:02 #19

f stop:

much more significant statistic is what are people in EU nations learning most as a second language, and English leaves all the others in the dust -> 38%.

Nothing we couldn't change if the EU adopts german as official language...what would be much more fair than british, after all Germany is the power house in the EU not GB and german is the most native spoken language of the EUians! ;)

This anglization is eh only thanks to the after war super power status of the US (also not GB).
Nothing european about it!

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:02 #20
grubas: That's what I am talking about.This is YOUR money ppl and it could be spent much more efficiently. Right, by saying that this is an idiotic idea. To say that free trade is good, but the rest of it is crap. Parallel governments are nothing but overhead.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:04 #21
convex: How much would that cost? How do you legally force people to learn a new language, especially when it was never a job requirement to begin with? Think long run(regarding cost).Ppl are already being forced to so many things that I don't think it would even matter.If you would want goverment job in any of EU countries you would have to speak english.Plain and simple.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:05 #22
grubas: If you would want goverment job in any of EU countries you would have to speak english.Plain and simple. Again...easy to change! ;)

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Apr 5, 10, 03:06 #23

grubas:

Think long run(regarding cost).Ppl are already being forced to so many things that I don't think it would even matter.If you would want goverment job in any of EU countries you would have to speak english.Plain and simple.

You would have to change the way contracts are enforced... in the government and private sector.

I still don't think that makes much sense as most people in the EU currently speak German on a day to day basis.

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Apr 5, 10, 03:07 #24
Bratwurst Boy: Nothing we couldn't change if the EU adopts german Let me ask you, and I really don't know the answer, but all the most common programming languages, are they translated from english to other languages? A simple example, can you code C++ in german?

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:08 #25
Arien: Ofcourse money could be spent more efficiently, but what if all the money was spent so efficiently that it would render millions of people jobless or even completely useless Maybe lower taxes???

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex Apr 5, 10, 03:09 #26
f stop: Let me ask you, and I really don't know the answer, but all the most common programming languages, are they translated from english to other languages? A simple example, can you code C++ in german? Not that difficult to replace a couple of words. You could do that with whatever compiler you're using. And you'd get umlauts...and drop letters too. type become typ. sweet.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Apr 5, 10, 03:10 #27

f stop:

Let me ask you, and I really don't know the answer, but all the most common programming languages, are they translated from english to other languages? A simple example, can you code C++ in german?

We could do it, why not? ;)

But it's more about the future of the EU and disregarding the most populous member, the economical engine, the paymaster AND the language most widely spoken in the EU is not exactly fair, don't you think so too?

So better be comfy with 3 official languages or that idea of yours (or grubas' for that matter) might backlash! I'm quite serious here...

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:14 #28
Bratwurst Boy: Nothing we couldn't change if the EU adopts german as official language...what would be much more fair than british, after all Germany is the power house in the EU not GB and german is the most native spoken language of the EUians! ;) This anglization is eh only thanks to the after war super power status of the US (also not GB). Nothing european about it! Here we go!

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Apr 5, 10, 03:21 #29

Bratwurst Boy:

the language most widely spoken in the EU

that is not exactly true. That might be the native speakers, but by great margin
everybody else choosing to learn English, not German.
I gave programming languages as one example, but there are many more instances, like electronic industry, that have already adopted english as an official language. And in most cases, it has nothing to do with UK.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,452 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Apr 5, 10, 03:21 #30
convex: You would have to change the way contracts are enforced... True.Why not start with the new hirees?

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