PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
Unanswered | Archives
Culture and Customs of Poland Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / News, Politics /

Orban - for 'im, agin'im?


posts: 18

Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08
 Jan 21, 12, 13:20    #1
The fact that PiS supports Hungary's Victor Orban is not surprising. But Tusk, who would normally insist that water is dry if Kaczyñski said it was wet, surprisingly is also backing the Hungarian PM.and defending him against 'exaggerated EU attacks'.

mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08
 Jan 21, 12, 16:22    #2
I won't say I like Orban and I'm not crazy about all the legal changes he's brought about but, with the probably exception of the media law, it doesn't strike me as anything that doesn't fall within the area of national sovereignty.

Someone like Barroso complaining that it's 'undemocratic' would be hilarious if the hypocricy didn't make my blood boil.

I'm not a EU hater, but those in Brussels need to learn their place.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
Edited by: delphiandomine  Jan 21, 12, 16:39    #3
mafketis:
I won't say I like Orban and I'm not crazy about all the legal changes he's brought about but, with the probably exception of the media law, it doesn't strike me as anything that doesn't fall within the area of national sovereignty.


I think the real issue is that they've been doing a lot of underhanded things too - but the EU can't accuse them of things that can't be clearly proven.

For instance - the case of the last opposition radio station in Budapest - "Klubradio". That's the tip of the iceberg - there are plenty of other things going on there, too.

mafketis:
I'm not a EU hater, but those in Brussels need to learn their place.


To be fair - Hungary would be in a hell of a lot of trouble now if it wasn't for the EU.

I'm still amazed the EU didn't give them a hard time over the utterly pointless waste of money changing all the road signs to read "Hungary" rather than "Republic of Hungary".
rybnikThreads: 29
Posts: 1,232
Joined: Jan 16, 11
 Pictures: 4
 Jan 21, 12, 16:43    #4
mafketis:
I'm not a EU hater, but those in Brussels need to learn their place.

As a yank I find this very, very interesting. These criticisms regarding the EU vs sovereign countries smacks a lot of our gripes when it comes to the federal government imposing its will on the states......
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
 Jan 21, 12, 16:45    #5
rybnik:
As a yank I find this very, very interesting. These criticisms regarding the EU vs sovereign countries smacks a lot of our gripes when it comes to the federal government imposing its will on the states......


It does, actually. One of the interesting questions ahead is when/if the EU will attain sovereign power. I don't think it ever will, unless we see a massive crisis that far exceeds the current one.

It's worth pointing out that any country unhappy with the EU can simply repeal their relevant Act of Accession - while the Treaty of Lisbon has a formal "exit proceedure' - legally - all a country has to do is repeal the relevant act and voila - they've exited the EU.
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08
 Jan 22, 12, 23:37    #6
As a Yankpol this also reminds me of the Anti-christian Loonies (ACLU) and other 'Politically Correct' types trying to force their lefitst-liebral 'gospel' down everybody's throat!
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11
 Jan 23, 12, 06:11    #7
Polonius3:
Anti-christian Loonies (ACLU) and other 'Politically Correct' types trying to force their lefitst-liebral 'gospel' down everybody's throat!

This is actually a meaningless phrase.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06
 Jan 23, 12, 12:04    #8
JonnyM:
This is actually a meaningless phrase.


No, It isn't.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
 Jan 23, 12, 12:55    #9
Polonius3:
As a Yankpol this also reminds me of the Anti-christian Loonies (ACLU) and other 'Politically Correct' types trying to force their lefitst-liebral 'gospel' down everybody's throat!


Absolutely meaningless.

What do you know about what's going on in Hungary, except what the Dear Leader told you?
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08
 Jan 24, 12, 16:01    #10
PM Victor Orbán has helped inject a new sense of national pride in his countrymen. Just as Hungary stood up to the Habsburg empire in the 19th century and Soviet Russia in 1956, so too it will not allow itself to be intimidated or terrorised by the Brussels bureaucracy. He has also devised a way for the new constitution to be created not by politicians and tbut by the Hungarian people themselves — each household has received a questionnaire dealing with major policy issues. On the basis of the replies the new constitution will be promulgated. Orbán’s Hungary is calling for a return to grassroots democracy, to the real rural and provincial Hungary where the nation's heart beats uncorrupted by the Budapest elite. And Hungary is standing up for and extending a helping hand to Hungarians world-wide in terms of health and education benefits, something like Poland’s Karta Polaka. Naturally the Brussels eurocrat know-alls are foaming at the mouth — ‘How dare Orbán speak out for independence, patriotism, freedom and sovereignty when our plan is to homogenise, subjugate, and subordinate!?’
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11
Edited by: JonnyM  Jan 24, 12, 16:57    #11
Polonius3:
helped inject

Helped inject a severe restriction in freedoms by one who got to power with the help of extremists and thugs.
Polonius3:
Naturally the Brussels eurocrat know-alls are foaming at the mouth

You mean the MEPs that the Hungarian people elected?
mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08
 Jan 24, 12, 22:34    #12
JonnyM:
Helped inject a severe restriction in freedoms by one who got to power with the help of extremists and thugs.


What freedoms has Orban restricted? And he got into power by the utter country destroying incompetence and dysfunctional policies of the previous socialist government who were about 10 times than any Polish post communist government.

Of course there's going to be blowback against the principles that severely damaged the country.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
Edited by: delphiandomine  Jan 24, 12, 23:10    #13
mafketis:
What freedoms has Orban restricted?


Klubradio might tell you a thing or two...

mafketis:
And he got into power by the utter country destroying incompetence and dysfunctional policies of the previous socialist government who were about 10 times than any Polish post communist government.


It's the old PiS syndrome again - take power, and instead of using it responsibly - go completely over the top and thoroughly **** off the people that actually voted for you. The latest stunt in Budapest of bussing in thousands of people from Romania and Serbia to show "support" for Hungary is just ridiculous.

Polonius3:
PM Victor Orbán has helped inject a new sense of national pride in his countrymen.


Quite the opposite. He's actually managed to cause deep divisions within society - that didn't exist before.

Polonius3:
it will not allow itself to be intimidated or terrorised by the Brussels bureaucracy.


When you are as dependent on the EU as Hungary is right now, you really shouldn't be upsetting them.

Polonius3:
He has also devised a way for the new constitution to be created not by politicians and tbut by the Hungarian people themselves — each household has received a questionnaire dealing with major policy issues. On the basis of the replies the new constitution will be promulgated.


Hahahaha. And you think Fidesz are honestly listening? What an utter waste of cash - money that Hungary doesn't have right now.

Polonius3:
Orbán’s Hungary is calling for a return to grassroots democracy, to the real rural and provincial Hungary where the nation's heart beats uncorrupted by the Budapest elite.


Ever been to Hungary, Polonius?

If you had, you'd know that Budapest is the heart of Hungary. With almost 1/3rd of the country actually living in Budapest, the city *is* Hungary, whether you like it or not.

Incidentally, much of Budapest's elite vote for Fidesz, so I suspect you need to learn a bit more about Hungarian politics before commenting in future. If you actually knew anything - you'd know that the Fidesz candidate absolutely destroyed the opposition in the recent Budapest by-election. Then again - that doesn't fit with your image of "power to the uneducated village idiots", does it?

Polonius3:
And Hungary is standing up for and extending a helping hand to Hungarians world-wide in terms of health and education benefits, something like Poland’s Karta Polaka.


Are they now? The Hungarians in Serbia and Romania beg to differ.

Polonius3:
Naturally the Brussels eurocrat know-alls are foaming at the mouth — ‘How dare Orbán speak out for independence, patriotism, freedom and sovereignty when our plan is to homogenise, subjugate, and subordinate!?’


How dare they speak out in Brussels when it's the EU that's saving Hungary as we speak?!

Anyway, the EU couldn't care less about that stuff. The part that the EU is worried about is central bank independence, media freedom and so on. You know, real, tangible things.
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08
 Jan 25, 12, 00:21    #14
Although I'm no big fan of the Tusk gang, I must admit that on the Orban thing they got things right for a change.Tusk, Saryusz-Wolski, Sikorski et al are all saying Hungary is maintaining democratic standards and that Bruussels is making a moutnain out of a molehill and bullying the poor Hungarians.
Sure, Brussels would love to control the way the central banks of individual countries do things. Dream on eurocreeps!
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
 Jan 25, 12, 00:25    #15
Polonius3:
Sure, Brussels would love to control the way the central banks of individual countries do things. Dream on eurocreeps!


I honestly think you live in some sort of parallel universe.

Brussels is actually demanding the independence of the central bank in Hungary, rather than the dependence.

Polonius3:
Tusk, Saryusz-Wolski, Sikorski et al are all saying Hungary is maintaining democratic standards and that Bruussels is making a moutnain out of a molehill and bullying the poor Hungarians.


If "democratic standards" include ensuring that there are no opposition media outlets in the country, then...well...
Polonius3Threads: 1,005
Posts: 4,834
Joined: Apr 11, 08
 Jan 25, 12, 03:25    #16
delphiandomine
Take it up with Tusk, Saryusz-Wolski and Sikorski. I am merely relating their position.
mafketisThreads: 17
Posts: 1,880
Joined: Mar 31, 08
 Jan 25, 12, 08:56    #17
delphiandomine:
If you had, you'd know that Budapest is the heart of Hungary. With almost 1/3rd of the country actually living in Budapest, the city *is* Hungary, whether you like it or not.


More like between 1/4 and 1/5 last I knew (unless you count surrounding commuter towns).
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08
[Suspended]
 Jan 25, 12, 10:44    #18
mafketis:
More like between 1/4 and 1/5 last I knew (unless you count surrounding commuter towns).


I'm counting them because they're in the sphere of influence of Budapest - maybe not strictly in Budapest, but part of it all the same.

Still, it shows how much Hungary is centralised - and more to the point, Fidesz is very strong there.



Home / News, Politics / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar

Poland - abandon all logic  Penile fracture' man stable in Lodz hospital


Random: American football on TV in Krakow

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


57 [Guests - 46 / Members - 11] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 20:17 / May 26

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising

© 2005-12 PolishForums.com