Over 2 million Poles drowning in debt

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jun 13, 11, 13:56 #1
A new report on debt reveals that over 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time, with total arrears amounting to 30.9 billion zloty (7.8 billion euro).

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Jun 13, 11, 14:09 #2

I can well imagine this. An element which, to my knowledge anyway, no other member seems to have raised in conjunction with this point is the level of layoffs from businesses and other workplaces in Poland. Many people in Britain often say that 'finding a job is a job in itself'. It can take a long time after having just been made redundant. There is always the lingering threat of cuts in the workforce. If indeed the level of people getting the heave-ho is high here then 2.1 is a highly conservative estimate. We must remember that these are times of relative capitalism in Poland and there will be winners and many losers in such a system. We should also remember the natural (uninformed) response of people to phenomena. Look at the Irish Tiger. Many thought they were well-heeled folks and it all came crashing down. Many Poles have also taken to being flash and it may well backfire on them somewhere down the line. Debt is a reality when you put credit cards peoples' way.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 13, 11, 14:13 #3
As opposed to the UK, where people are so smart that they take out loans with annual interest rates of over 4200%.

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Jun 13, 11, 14:35 #4

milky:

A new report on debt reveals that over 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time, with total arrears amounting to 30.9 billion zloty (7.8 billion euro).

Peanuts compared to the UK

UK banks and building societies wrote off £9.5bn of loans to individuals in the 4 quarters to end Q1 2011. In Q1 2011 they wrote off £1.89bn (£866m of that was credit card debt). This amounts to a write-off of £20.71m a day.
Average household debt in the UK is ~ £8,121 (excluding mortgages). This figure increases to £15,618 if the average is based on the number of households who actually have some form of unsecured loan.
Average household debt in the UK is ~ £55,854 (including mortgages). If you add to this the March 2010 budget report figure for public sector net debt (PSND) expected in 2015-16 (excluding financial interventions) then this figure rises to £106,470 per household.
331 people every day of the year will be declared insolvent or bankrupt. This is equivalent to 1 person every 60 seconds during a working day.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Jun 13, 11, 14:38 #5
I stayed on topic with my post but then why the talk of GB? This is about Poland.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 13, 11, 14:42 #6
Seanus: why the talk of GB? This is about Poland. Because Poland does not have, comparatively speaking, a problem with personal debt.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 14:46 #7
I really wouldn't be so sure about that at all. Do the math and you will see that debt very much comes into it.

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Jun 13, 11, 14:48 #8

milky:

A new report on debt reveals that over 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time, with total arrears amounting to 30.9 billion zloty (7.8 billion euro).

That says nothing of the problem? How much is it for one indebted person? Short-term debt including ceredit-card debt constitutes what part of it? If someone who is on the start with his 30-year mortgage debt has run into trouble, do they count the whole of this debt into your "total arrears amounting to 30.9 bilion zloty"?

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Edited by: asik Jun 13, 11, 14:50 #9

milky:

Over 2 million Poles drowning in debt

Only 2mlns people?
Not bad when you look at some shocking and unbelivable facts, how the Polish government is 'killing' their own citizens:

http://finanse.wp.pl/kat,98674,title,Za-panstwo-placimy-25-krotnie-wie cej-niz-Amerykanie,wid,13502274,wiadomosc.html

In short....the Polish average worker is taxed at 23 800zł yearly and in household where 2 people work, one wage goes towards paying income taxes plus some other compulsory fees connected with the income.

The average Polish worker in reality is taxed at 52% from which 39.5% makes income tax plus insurances and the rest is VAT tax (GST) and other compulsory fees paid to the government.

As an example, Americans pay only 23.6% yearly income tax at least from the year 1958.

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Jun 13, 11, 15:26 #10

Seanus:

I stayed on topic with my post but then why the talk of GB? This is about Poland.

You do not understand Marks agenda, he is trying to imply, all the time, that Poland is the worst at everything. Debt, jobs, housing, employers, transport, you name it and Poland has the worst.

Even if 1 in 19 of the Polish population handles money badly, that is still a small percentage.

As Z says

"That says nothing of the problem? How much is it for one indebted person? Short-term debt including ceredit-card debt constitutes what part of it? If someone who is on the start with his 30-year mortgage debt has run into trouble, do they count the whole of this debt into your "total arrears amounting to 30.9 bilion zloty"?

Where are the facts?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 13, 11, 15:28 #11
I don't think being in debt is such a major shame given the disproportionate salaries to the cost of living here, esp cars and property. Many employers just don't pay that much so there is little choice but to slide into debt unless you are incredibly frugal.

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Edited by: Ziemowit Jun 13, 11, 15:40 #12

Avalon:

Marks agenda, he is trying to imply, all the time, that Poland is the worst at everything. Debt, jobs, housing, employers, transport, you name it and Poland has the worst.

I haven't noticed he has gone so far up. I know he claims that property prices are in Poland have rocketed and stay as such ever since. If he thinks that Poland has the worst of everything, there must surely be some personal reason for it.

He is as good to sticking to facts as once British Prime Minister Thatcher was in a comedy radio broadcast:
- Prime Minister, why sell off North Sea Oil?
- Gentelmen, we've been through this before and you know the answer: nationalised industries do not make money!
- But this one does!
- Precisely! So it can't be a true nationalised industry which is why I'm selling it off ...

beckskiThreads: 19 Posts: 2,148 Joined: May 15, 07 MEMBER ♀	Jun 14, 11, 03:30 #13
milky: 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time What types of loans are you referring to mainly? Home, automobile, student, personal loans, credit card debit, etc? A sincere thanks PF, for putting up with me FIVE terrific years, muah!

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 05:03 #14
milky: A new report on debt reveals that over 2.1 million Poles have trouble with repaying loan on time, with total arrears amounting to 30.9 billion zloty (7.8 billion euro). The whole planet is in debt. Global debt is $39,650,464,730,351 as of a few minutes ago. That makes it 5,852 per person worldwide. Those 2.1 million Poles owe less than the global average - $5,348 per person.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 08:54 #15
Ok, first I found the article (News.pl). To be honest, I am not an economist, without any reference points, other statistics etc... just what am I to make of these figures? I imagine that in any country there are those that can not pay their loans, even when the country is doing well economically, so how does this compare?

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jun 14, 11, 09:00 #16

z_darius:

Global debt is $39,650,464,730,351 as of a few minutes ago.

I think you'll find its quite a bit more than that if you delve into the areas which the governments try to hide from the public. It is absolute madness though - the world owing money to itself. I mean how is that even possible?

As for Polish debt i think the loan sharks are a major problem, till recently there wasnt a capped APR and many desperate people signed up for small loans only to discover later on that they were shafted by the small print. It was a massive issues in the UK till the government stepped in. Having said that look at all the miss sold loan insurance claims in the UK right now. Banks are putting by billions to deal with the claims.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 09:19 #17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v--fTVAWE8&feature=related Wroclaw Boy: It is absolute madness though - the world owing money to itself. I mean how is that even possible?

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Jun 14, 11, 10:06 #18

Wroclaw Boy:

I think you'll find its quite a bit more than that if you delve into the areas which the governments try to hide from the public. It is absolute madness though - the world owing money to itself. I mean how is that even possible?

Each day we watch the news,read newspapers or surf the net, what flickers across our screens is information about debt and lost cause, without government intervention. " Nature has a way of self healing". With hindsight, the decision taken by governments to bail out the backs was wrong, in 2011, nothing has changed, there is a bubble brewing again in technology stocks. The price of prime location residential real estate in Warsaw, is booming again, Try finding a Villa in best parts of Zoliborz or Mokotow for less than 7 Mil PLN, 18 months during the so called crash, houses that dropped to 4 Mil PLN are being offered at 7-8 Mil PLN and they are finding buyers. The problem is the banks, they are lending again to irresponsible clients. Enter the next stage " Stockholm syndrome" people are convinced the only we out of the problem, is to worship and look to the ones that perpetuate this cycle of debt.

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Jun 14, 11, 11:40 #19

According to recent studies (such as ESPON data and the latest report from the Kwiatkowski Institute, a Polish NGO active on climate control issues), introduction of an auction system from 2013 in place of free allocation of emission allowances is likely to cause a rise in the price of electricity in Poland by 27% in 2013

http://portalprocesowy.pl/en/opinions-and-comments/art81,will-business es-flee-poland.html

Nowy Styl, a Polish furniture maker, halted plans to build a 60 million-zloty ($22 million) production line this year because of “poor market sentiment,” Chief Executive Officer Adam Krzanowski said at a news conference in late April.
ES-System SA (ESS), a Warsaw-listed maker of lighting systems, suspended investment in a new plant in Dobczyce, southern Poland, because of lower-than-expected demand for solar panels in Europe, CEO Boguslaw Pilszeczek said at a news conference on May 12.
While Polish companies are expanding, they don’t want to invest yet, said Slawomir Sikora, chief executive at Bank Handlowy SA, a unit of Citigroup Inc. and Poland’s sixth-biggest bank by assets. Domestic entrepreneurs increased debt by 2.8 percent to 220.6 billion zloty in the first quarter, according to M3 money supply data from the central bank.
“These are mostly revolving loans for current operations,” Sikora said. “There’s no demand for investment loans while global uncertainty and problems in the euro zone are discouraging companies from long-term investments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-31/polish-economy-set-to-slow-as -private-investment-falls-short-of-estimates.html

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 11:53 #20
Wroclaw Boy: I think you'll find its quite a bit more than that if you delve into the areas which the governments try to hide from the public. It is absolute madness though - the world owing money to itself. I mean how is that even possible? Why? Because no matter how hard the elites try to create one world government the world is, and will always be, comprised of multiple sovereigns.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 23:55 #21
You just make David Rockefeller cry ;) ;) 2 million? Try 4.

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