What do PO voters expect from the new Polish government ?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 12:53 #1
I would like to hear from PO voters what in their opinion will determine success or failer of the "new" government" ? I mean facts, quantitative data regarding taxes, debt, employment, corruption, science etc. Thank you in advance.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Oct 16, 11, 13:32 #2
Don`t thank me in advance. I won`t contribute anything in this highly provocative thread. :):):):):):) Besides, there are other threads which cover the topic. And I advise other true PO supporters to do the same. :):):):) Boycotte! :):):):):)

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 16, 11, 13:35 #3
pawian: And I advise other true PO supporters to do the same. :):):):) I hear you loud and clear ;) I'm happy if they keep PiS from winning in the 2014-2015 election cycle. That's fine by me :)

WielkiPolakThreads: 21 Posts: 154 Joined: Jun 3, 11 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 13:38 #4
Talk about brainwashing. PO has actually succeeded in convincing it's supporters that if for nothing else, 1 reason to vote for them it to keep the 'extremists' of PiS out of power. Fantastic mind job, but can't quite believe that it actually worked.

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 16, 11, 13:40 #5

WielkiPolak:

Talk about brainwashing. PO has actually succeeded in convincing it's supporters that if for nothing else, 1 reason to vote for them it to keep the 'extremists' of PiS out of power. Fantastic mind job, but can't quite believe that it actually worked.

That's okay, we positively love watching the anger on PiS voters faces when they realise that it worked ;) Many people did in fact vote PO rather than SLD/Palikot for that exact reason - we do not want a return to the days of PiS under any circumstance.

I haven't said it in a while, but hey hey, na na, goodbye Kaczynski!

WielkiPolakThreads: 21 Posts: 154 Joined: Jun 3, 11 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 13:43 #6
Yeah that sounds like the PO voter [ura bura] style, ha ha, na na. It's just a game to you right?

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 16, 11, 13:55 #7
WielkiPolak: It's just a game to you right? For us, it's a great game watching PiS languish in opposition, knowing that there's absolutely no hope of them gaining any power before 2015. It's more than suitable punishment for all the hatred spewed by PiS and their media over the last few years.

♂

Oct 16, 11, 13:56 #8

Someone on one of the Polish talking-heads shows noted that Palikot represneted a new-style 21st-century partry. The old-style party was led by soemone who for better or worse had some convictions (like Kaczyński) and was willing to fight for them to the bitter end. The modern party first surveys the market, follows the polls, and sees what the current public demand is like, and then creats a programme that fits the biill. Tusk is somewhere in between, some ideas but a lot of political marketing, survey-following and image-honing.

♂ [Suspended]

Oct 16, 11, 13:58 #9

Polonius3:

The old-style party was led by soemone who for better or worse had some convictions (like Kaczyński) and was willing to fight for them to the bitter end. The modern party first surveys the market, follows the polls, and sees what the current public demand is like, and then creats a programme that fits the biill.

So - in other words - the 20th century saw the people being dictated to by the Party, while the 21st century sees the people dictating to the parties.

What's the problem? In a democracy, we elect people to represent the people, don't we?

(incidentally, what makes you think Kaczynski has convictions? Until relatively recently, he had no form for supporting his platform nowadays. Or have you forgotten that he actually was behind the Centre Agreement?)

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron Oct 16, 11, 14:32 #10

Continued investment in infrastructure. When the highways are built the the priority should switch to rail.
Investment in internet infrastructure.
Continued investment in higher education and the knowledge economy.
Continued reform of the healthcare system.
Continued reform of the school system.

These are just some of the things i expect.

delphiandomine:

I haven't said it in a while, but hey hey, na na, goodbye Kaczynski!

And that as well(:

THE HITMANThreads: 1 Posts: 416 Joined: Jun 15, 10 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 16:41 #11
Funny how you find the same three stupid posters on these political threads. Won,t mention any names !

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 16, 11, 16:53 #12
THE HITMAN: Funny how you find the same three stupid posters on these political threads. Won,t mention any names ! blah blah hey hey, na na, goodbye :) Funny how much sour grapes are being consumed in Polska B right now!

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 17:06 #13
Why the constant stream of hatred and derision against Poland B by elitist snobs who happened to have better-to-do parents who could afford to educate them? A bit of humility wouldn't hurt.

♂

Oct 16, 11, 17:12 #14

Polonius3:

constant stream of hatred and derision against Poland B

Largely in your mind.

Polonius3:

better-to-do parents who could afford to educate them?

I think you'll find that most of the people who voted PO were not privately educated. Though figures show that they are more likely to have finished high school than PiS voters.

Polonius3:

A bit of humility wouldn't hurt.

I wonder if Jaroslaw Kaczynski has ever realised that...

WlazloThreads: - Posts: 6 Joined: Mar 12, 10 ♂	Edited by: Wlazlo Oct 16, 11, 17:16 #15
How many people voted this time.. ? about 49 % ? How can this be ? Is it the old generation who doesn't have faith in politics since the communism or what ?

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Oct 16, 11, 17:23 #16

Wlazlo:

How many people voted this time.. ? about 49 % ?

How can this be ? Is it the old generation who doesn't have faith in politics since the communism or what ?

That's a fairly normal figure for Polish elections. If anything, it's the older generation who are more likely to vote - remember the 'hide granny's identity card' campaign a few years ago. Some of this is this is to do with the meldunek system - people are often registered as living (and voting) somewhere they don't actually live. It's possible to switch one's vote to the city, but as usual in PL, it needs documents, rubber stamps, queues etc.

THE HITMANThreads: 1 Posts: 416 Joined: Jun 15, 10 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 18:22 #17
delphiandomine: blah blah hey hey, na na, goodbye Fool. Shows the mentality of the ruling conglomerate. Say no more. lol.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 16, 11, 19:40 #18
JonnyM: Though figures show that they are more likely to have finished high school than PiS voters. Far more likely, actually. It's no surprise that PiS won overwhelmingly among badly educated people. THE HITMAN: Fool. Shows the mentality of the ruling conglomerate. Say no more. lol. Get used to it, my friend ;)

♂

Oct 16, 11, 20:31 #19

WielkiPolak:

Talk about brainwashing. PO has actually succeeded in convincing it's supporters that if for nothing else, 1 reason to vote for them it to keep the 'extremists' of PiS out of power. Fantastic mind job, but can't quite believe that it actually worked.

This is a terrible situation... If you had asked 4 years ago average PO voter what would she/he think about government rising taxes, increasing employment in administration etc. they would all have said that it's total sh*it but it happened and it's all good because It's been done by PO... now they don't want to form any expectations (or make them as unmeaserable as possible) becasue they know Tusk would most probably fail on that and they would look stupid still supporting him... and they would support him nevertheless as PO holding power became a sucess by itself... This is a terrible situation as we won't make any progress (I mean the real one, not defined as having "openly gay" guy in Sejm and similar nonsense) unless there's a pressure on government to actual make badly needed changes. It's no wonder Tusk does nothing when his voters don't expect anything, why do anything risking a failer then ?

♂

Oct 16, 11, 20:53 #20

=Polonius3]Why the constant stream of hatred and derision against Poland B by elitist snobs who happened to have better-to-do parents who could afford to educate them?

I don`t hate PiS and its fans.
I do deride them, as a matter of fact, because derision is my second name. :):):):

As for better-off-parents, my mother was a teacher, my father an engineer with a few patents for communist industry. They worked hard, my mother had double full time in her school, 48 lessons per week. She left at 8 am and came back at 8 pm.
Yes, I had private lessons of German since I was 6, and English since 12. Miraculously, my parents knew that languages were a must.

In the socialist reality, my education was elitist, indeed. But not in the sense of expenses. No. Private lessons were cheap as dirt. It was elitist because I wanted to be educated. Instead of wasting my time like other morons who never opened a book in their life, I read two books a week.

My friends later on became blue collar workers and today they vote for PiS. :):):):):)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Oct 16, 11, 21:10 #21
=THE HITMAN]Funny how you find the same three stupid posters on these political threads. Won,t mention any names ! It seems you are the 4th! Like some musketeers! :):):):):):)

♂

Oct 16, 11, 23:25 #22

pawian:

=THE HITMAN]Funny how you find the same three stupid posters on these political threads. Won,t mention any names !

Two down, one to go.

Oh ! He,s probably still asleep down under.

Like I said. " Won,t mention any names ", you obviously know the stupid three I was referring to. lol

Shame really. I come across some of your posts ( collectively ) and think they are quite helpful, but then I read your posts on these political threads, and think, " how bloody childish ".
Grow up boys, act like men, or at least pretend to be adults.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Oct 16, 11, 23:28 #23
=THE HITMAN]Grow up boys, act like men, or at least pretend to be adults. Don`t be silly! Do you want to exclude Peter Pans from public life? Do all people have to be as dull and unimaginative as you? :):):):) Excuse me, SiR, but I prefer staying what I am. :):):):)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 16, 11, 23:31 #24
What do PO voters expect? More of the same, I'd say. Surely expediting the building of roads. A modification of toll charges for using motorways for those that have to use the roads often. That has emerged from some discussions I've had with PO voters.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron Oct 16, 11, 23:35 #25

Grzegorz_:

government rising taxes, increasing employment in administration etc. they would all have said that it's total sh*it but it happened

Only in your imagination. VAT on fresh food was lowered and the increase in administrators is mostly the doing of local government. As a PO supporter I don't have a principled opposition to state workers, provided that they are not surplus to requirements.

There was also something called the GFC, which meant lowering taxes was a bit of a non starter, once the GFC comes to an endthen VAT will come down to it's rate before the crisis. That is their promise and I am sure they will deliver.

Mind you I would much rather prefer waiting for a tax cut under PO, than a tax increase under PIS, as would have happened had their economically illiterate polices come to fruition.

Speaking of PIS, if they were in power than Poland would have been another Greece, as the budget would have been some extra 40 billion in the red.

Thank God for Tusk and PO.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Oct 16, 11, 23:43 #26
You are (most probably unintentionally) proving my point... hague1cmaeron: Thank God for Tusk and PO. Undoubtedly the second coming of Jesus...

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron Oct 16, 11, 23:59 #27

Grzegorz_:

You are (most probably unintentionally) proving my point...

hague1cmaeron: Thank God for Tusk and PO.

Undoubtedly the second coming of Jesus...

No, It's jarek that has Messiah complex (get with the program, he intends to "save Poland") not Tusk. It's interesting though how you completely ignore the argument presented to you, your post reveals more for what it does not say than for what it does. It's funny every single time you stumble on some inconvenient logic, and your world view collapses in a heap, you just pick yourself up, dust yourself off as if nothing has happened, it reminds of Kaczynski when he refused to answer questions from journalists or engage in debate.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 17, 11, 00:22 #28
Grzegorz_: You are (most probably unintentionally) proving my point... You really are rather too much anti-PO (and pro PiS) for a Nowa Prawica supporter, you know.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Oct 17, 11, 00:52 #29
delphiandomine: You really are rather too much anti-PO (and pro PiS) for a Nowa Prawica supporter, you know. He obviously can't admit that he is a PIS supporter. I mean think about how logically flawed you would you have to be to support Nowa Prawica with their economically right wing and liberatarian policies, whilst at the same time sympathizing with the economically socialist views of PIS?

♂

Oct 17, 11, 08:48 #30

Polonius3:

Someone on one of the Polish talking-heads shows noted that Palikot represneted a new-style 21st-century partry. The old-style party was led by soemone who for better or worse had some convictions (like Kaczyński) and was willing to fight for them to the bitter end. The modern party first surveys the market, follows the polls, and sees what the current public demand is like, and then creats a programme that fits the biill. Tusk is somewhere in between, some ideas but a lot of political marketing, survey-following and image-honing.

The Labour party in the UK followed this principle. They ditched their ideology and gave the people what they wanted.

The British electorate loved it, three terms later Blair's hidden religious crusade tripped them up.

Given the lack of options, the British, rather then electing the right-wing Conservatives, split the vote to the Liberals, thereby preventing their worst policies.

'Do no Harm' is what the British want from their politicians, 'don't steal you f***ing thieves' is a bit too much to though.

It seems that the Poles also want politicians to serve them, rather than the other way round.

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