POLAND TO BECOME THE NEXT GREECE?

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Oct 10, 11, 06:44 #1

As I've mentioned in previous posts Poland shouldn't be so eager to take Euro money. The European Elites will extract a high price, and Poland will lose its sovereignty.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who won yesterday’s general election, must focus on cutting the budget gap to reverse a zloty plunge as investors shy away from the European Union’s biggest eastern country.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-09/polish-premier-faces-budget-d eficit-challenge-after-likely-election-win.html

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 10, 11, 06:47 #2

As I've mentioned in previous posts Poland shouldn't be so eager to take Euro money. The European Elites will extract a high price, and Poland will lose its sovereignty.

You really have no idea about how the European Union works, do you?

Normal for Americans to not understand, though. Perhaps you could start by examining the exit clause contained within Lisbon, and remind yourself of how the Sejm, the Bundestag, etc can simply repeal Lisbon at any time they wish.

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Oct 10, 11, 06:55 #3

It's not how it is portrayed in the Press. The Greek people never see the money. The money goes from the ECB right to the German French Banks with the People of Greece signature on it. The whole thing is a scam to effect control over the Greek people, instead of armies marching through Europe the elites are using finance. It's a fact that the German elite want to make Europe their common market, the only fly in the ointment is that the German-man-in-the-street doesn't want it. What do the Polish Elite want and is it in the interests of the Polish people?

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,954 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 06:57 #4
Poland is not free is part of E.U. and Tusk is stooge of central bank.

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Oct 10, 11, 08:25 #5

interests of the Polish people?

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, who probably won yesterday’s general election, and must now focus on cutting the budget gap to reverse a zloty plunge as investors shy away from Poland.
PO has pledged to narrow the deficit to 2.9 percent of gross domestic product IN 2012, counting on 4 percent economic growth to boost revenue.“The budget for next year must be made more realistic, this one is too optimistic, as the cycle of uncertainty that surrounds PL.

The zloty has slumped about 9.5 percent against the euro this year as investors shy away from emerging markets and on concern Europe’s debt crisis will slow economic growth.
The International Monetary Fund is forecasting 3 percent growth and Citigroup Inc. is predicting just 1.9 percent expansion in Poland, the only member of the 27-nation EU to avoid recession during the global financial crisis.The budget deficit soared to 7.9 percent of GDP last year and public debt is near the threshold of 55 percent of GDP, a level that would trigger mandatory austerity measures.Controlling public finances will be the greatest challenge for the administration that emerges from the election. The general government deficit soared to 7.9 percent of gross domestic product in 2010, exceeding the EU’s 3 percent limit for a third consecutive year.

The zloty’s tumble sent local-currency government bonds down 15.7 percent in dollar terms last quarter, the third-worst returns worldwide after Greece and Hungary, according to indexes of debt due in more than one year compiled by the European Federation of Financial Analyst Societies and Bloomberg.

Poland, a country of 38 million people, was the biggest net recipient of EU funding in the bloc’s 2007-2013 budget, getting 67 billion euros ($97 billion) in aid to iron out differences between richer and poorer states.The funding, which helped the Polish economy grow 4.4 percent a year in 2007-2010, may be cut if the country doesn’t reduce its deficit to within the EU limit of 3 percent of gross domestic product next year from 7.9 percent in 2010.The EU aid has added an average of 1.5 percentage points to economic growth each year, according to Poland’s Regional Development Ministry, and remains essential for economic expansion as budget cuts may limit consumer demand and public investment.

PO is now caught between a rock and a hard stone, implement austerity measures immediatly to reduce the debt or risk losing EU funding.

legendThreads: 9 Posts: 819 Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 08:35 #6
Poland wont be the next greece. This is almost a fact. The big countries with problems are the PIGS... Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Some people say PIIGGS. The additional I and G are Ireland and Great Britain. I will admit though that I dont know much about Britain economy.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Oct 10, 11, 09:34 #7
One thing is for sure, no matter how bad things get in Poland, you'll see no social protest.

MrHussariaThreads: - Posts: 8 Joined: Oct 9, 11 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 09:38 #8
Another thing... Poland's people will probably handle the situation a lot better than other Euro Nations, Poles have had their hard times and can endure.

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 09:48 #9
Poles have had their hard times and can endure. History is always a good barometer. no matter how bad things get in Poland, you'll see no social protest. That is what you get with an educated society, Poles understand that EU ascension brings a better quality of life. If it was not for the EU billions PL would have gone into recession.

LwowskaKrakowThreads: 49 Posts: 504 Joined: Mar 9, 07 MEMBER ♀	Oct 10, 11, 12:47 #10
the budget gap to reverse a zloty plunge as investors shy away from Poland. Are Foreign investors leaving or coming to invest in the Polish Economy because of a weak zloty ?

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 13:07 #11
One thing is for sure, no matter how bad things get in Poland, you'll see no social protest. you will you will - once they introduce the 'podatek katastralny' you surely will

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 13:15 #12
The Greek people never see the money. If the Greek people ever paid any taxes they wouldnt be in this state,its that simple. Anecdotal I know ,but one report was that a large city had collected just 15k in taxes for an entire year!!!!!!

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 13:25 #13
If not a fact that a lot of their debt was lent by German and French banks, Greece would simply default like many other countries did in the past and nothing really would happen.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Oct 10, 11, 13:29 #14
Are Foreign investors leaving or coming to invest in the Polish Economy because of a weak zloty ? what do you mean by investors actually - those people who buy Polish bonds are not investors - neither are those who put money into Polish banks to make use of bank interest differences

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Edited by: Wedle Oct 10, 11, 16:40 #15
those people who buy Polish bonds are not investors So a foreign institution or individual who buys Polish bonds ( government debt) is not a investor.... in your opinion?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 00:06 #16
Polmed, I think you are being called into action on this thread. Greece = austerity measures to avoid bankruptcy. Do you really feel Poland is headed down that road? I don't.

scottie1113Threads: 11 Posts: 873 Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 00:34 #17
Nor do I.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 08:34 #18
Greece has an important role as an accelerator of bankruptcy if defaulted.To isolate and inulate the problem is a concern of the EU bankers and governments.I am sure they will succeed because we will fail.The one is dependant from the other.As for Poland there will be no problem since itis not much indebted.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 10:02 #19
I see Greece has been crippled by demanding Polki ;) ;) Am I right, southern? ;) Funny that Poland hasn't been similarly crippled, isn't it? Care to shed any light on that?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 10:52 #20
Greece has been crippled by demanding Polki ;) ;) Am I right, southern? ;) Funny that Poland hasn't been similarly crippled, isn't it? Care to shed any light on that? It is known that Greeks are generous while polish men are stingy.We support the polish economy with large ex-flows.

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Oct 11, 11, 11:05 #21

What I don't understand is how can Greece default on their loans and not pay while in my country (Ireland) we are made pay with huge taxes. Where's the justice in that, why should one country pay and another country in the same situation not pay?

I think if Greece defaults on their debts they should just leave the EU, I would think the same about Ireland if we defaulted.
Greece should have never joined the EU in the first place. They lied about the deficit when originally joining. Now they have been lent loads more money that will not pay back, and who lent them this money, the rest of Europe. We were lent money are we are paying it back, why cant Greece.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 11:06 #22
If not a fact that a lot of their debt was lent by German and French banks * sarcasm alert Who had absolutely no idea what was going on in the country whatsoever - eh? Sure as far they were concerned Greece was totally stable with a healthy economy and this was all just business - absolutely no problem in getting the loans paid back.

WedleThreads: 24 Posts: 786 Joined: Sep 27, 11 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 11:10 #23
* sarcasm alert You got to love the Aussies.

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Oct 11, 11, 15:07 #24

What I don't understand is how can Greece default on their loans and not pay while in my country (Ireland) we are made pay with huge taxes. Where's the justice in that, why should one country pay and another country in the same situation not pay?

I think if Greece defaults on their debts they should just leave the EU, I would think the same about Ireland if we defaulted.
Greece should have never joined the EU in the first place. They lied about the deficit when originally joining. Now they have been lent loads more money that will not pay back, and who lent them this money, the rest of Europe. We were lent money are we are paying it back, why cant Greece.

I think it has nothing to do with justice but rather with choosing lesser evil. But if you are looking for justice I can tell you that defaulting on debt by a country is not a peanuts for this country either. Technically speaking Poland defaulted in 80' and was crawling out of a dip hole till mid 90'. Greeks would pay one way or another. I think the faster way would be through deafult. Besides not only Greeks should pay for mismanagement but banks who lent money without proper risk assesement... As for money flowing to Grecee now, those money are going immediately back to big western banks as interest payments...

scolari_ireThreads: 6 Posts: 24 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Oct 11, 11, 17:42 #25
I agree with you. Just look at Iceland, they defaulted a few years ago and are now on the up!

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Oct 12, 11, 10:43 #26

Mr. Middleditch forecasts a 3% GDP expansion in 2012. Other economists also expect growth to trail the government's current forecast of 4% for next year.
Predictions of slowing growth have raised expectations among analysts that Poland's central bank will cut interest rates in 2012, after raising them this year.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903352704576540482192576 572.html

Poland as a representative of the new EU member countries is today an economic leader in Central and Eastern Europe. In addition, thanks to its persistent moves toward political and economic improvements it has come to be perceived as a reliable partner.  As the recent economic slump proved, Poland has stood exceptionally well the test of time in the global financial muddle. In fact, Poland was the only country in Central Europe to record GDP growth in 2009 at a rate of 1,8%. Thus Polish business people deserve commendation for demonstrating the skill to adjust their activities to constantly altering market conditions.

http://en.poland.gov.pl/Poland,has,become,CEE,economic,leader,11241.ht ml

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 12, 11, 10:48 #27
I will admit though that I dont know much about Britain economy. Won't happen in the UK, because it would be easy for the country to simply slice expenditure.

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Oct 12, 11, 12:55 #28

Won't happen in the UK, because it would be easy for the country to simply slice expenditure.

I hope it won't happen in the UK but no one is sure whether we are over the worst of the banking crisis or whether this is just the start of the plunge

the world traditionally looked to the US to kick start the world economy but that is not happening

it would be foolish to write the UK off nevertheless

Poland ought to do better than most in riding out the storm

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