Poland becoming a Soviet Socialist Republic Again?

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Edited by: 1jola Jan 15, 10, 18:21 #1

Are we willingly giving up our sovergnity?

"Paul Belien: You were a very famous Soviet dissident and now you are drawing a parallel between the European Union and the Soviet Union. Can you explain this?

Vladimir Bukovsky: I am referrring to structures, to certain ideologies being instilled, to the plans, the direction, the inevitable expansion, the obliteration of nations, which was the purpose of the Soviet Union. Most people do not understand this. They do not know it, but we do because we were raised in the Soviet Union where we had to study the Soviet ideology in school and at university. The ultimate purpose of the Soviet Union was to create a new historic entity, the Soviet people, all around the globe. The same is true in the EU today. They are trying to create a new people. They call this people “Europeans”, whatever that means."

Read the interview with Bukovsky:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Bukovsky

kh siarko sanokThreads: 4 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 13, 10 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 18:23 #2
O no ****.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 18:25 #3
1jola: Are we willingly giving up our sovergnity? Do you really have to ask that? sovereignty is being traded off for perks.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 15, 10, 18:25 #4

Why are you spamming Jola? You just made a perfectly good thread over there....should I post my answer here as well???

convex:

sovereignty is being traded off for perks.

Crap!

Your US consists of 50 states who gave up their sovereignity because they knew only THAT made them to a super power, that they have better chances together!
How about we pull them apart again and northern America would have to do with now 50 different States? How long would you stay a super power, economical, political....without war etc.

What about the sovereignity of all these poorer smaller ex-United States??? Yes, they would be independent, sovereign and totally f*ucked!

Europes future lays in a federation of all our states like in the US.
It's the only viable future where Europe will thrive....everything else will be to our greatest disadvantage!

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 15, 10, 18:35 #5
Are we willingly giving up our sovergnity? Poljaci, it doesn`t matter. You can risk. Never mind, try, examine what EU can offer to you You are in bater position then Britian, Germany or France, for example. You always have where to retreat. But they,... after collapse of EU experiment they can go only in PIZDA MATERINA

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Jan 15, 10, 18:36 #6

Bratwurst Boy:

Crap!

Your US consists of 50 states who gave up their sovereignity because they knew only THAT made them to a super power, that they have better chances together!
How about we pull them apart again and northern America would have to do with now 50 different States? How long would you stay a super power, economical, political....without war etc.

What about the sovereignity of all these poorer smaller ex-United States??? Yes, they would be independent, sovereign and totally f*ucked!

Europes future lays in a federation of all our states like in the US.
It's the only viable future where Europe will thrive....everything else will be to our greatest disadvantage!

Huh? The states make up one country. Now, if you're talking about Canada, US, Mexico becoming one country, that'd be different. NAFTA????

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 18:40 #7
He's talking about the USA breaking apart into different countries along state lines.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 15, 10, 18:46 #8
Yes, the US didn't start as as unified country of 50 states, didn't it??? It was only 13! There even was civil war... I don't see why Europe couldn't achieve the same! But as the new immigrants coming from the old world needed to leave their old homes behind and develop a new consciousness as "Americans" so Europe must develop their european consciousness. If the EU helps it's good!

kh siarko sanokThreads: 4 Posts: 70 Joined: Jan 13, 10 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 18:48 #9
theother; goooooooooooooooooooood point!

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Jan 15, 10, 18:52 #10

Bratwurst Boy:

Yes, the US didn't start as as unified country of 50 states, didn't it??? It was only 13!
There even was civil war...

I don't see why Europe couldn't achieve the same!
But as the new immigrants coming from the old world needed to leave their old homes behind and develop a new consciousness as "Americans" so Europe must develop their european consciousness.

If the EU helps it's good!

Yes, I'm sitting in one of the original thirteen colonies. It took a long, long time for all of the states to unite. Texas was its own country and so was California. We had to buy Lousianna and lots more territory from the French and yes, there was a civil war. It didn't happen overnight. Hmmm, yes, people did come from their old homes and cultures to a new home and develop a new culture, which mingled with the native culture, but we still retained our individual old cultures. That's why I'm here in this forum. Third generation American, but still POLISH!

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: time means Jan 15, 10, 18:54 #11
kith: Third generation American, but still POLISH LMAO NOT ANOTHER ONE. You are an American and about as Polish as me (at least i have been)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 15, 10, 18:55 #12
kith: Third generation American, but still POLISH! Yes, and I can't see one good argument why the EU shouldn't try to work towards a United States of Europe....where you are an European and still Polish or German or whatever! It's the only, the best way to secure our future as I see it.

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Jan 15, 10, 18:58 #13

Bratwurst Boy:

Crap!

It doesn't change the fact that national sovereignty is being traded off for perks. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a fact.

Monetary policy for instance. Would you say that Slovakia now has more control over their monetary policy since joining the euro, or less? Would you say that Poland now has more control over their borders than before signing up for schengen?

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Jan 15, 10, 18:59 #14

Bratwurst Boy:

Yes, and I can't see one good argument why the EU shouldn't try to work towards a United States of Europe....where you are an European and still Polish or German or whatever!

Because . . . we have a common language - English . . . ? Maybe that helps. Many Native American Indians still speak their languages and many others still speak their languages, but English is what we all speak. So, what language would you choose for the general language of the European Union? Don't say English because the French will reject it.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 19:01 #15
Bratwurst Boy: Why are you spamming Jola? You just made a perfectly good thread over there....should I post my answer here as well??? Spamming? The mods moved it to where no one goes. Perhaps they think this has nothing to do with Poland. They could be American.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 15, 10, 19:02 #16

convex:

It doesn't change the fact that national sovereignty is being traded off for perks. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a fact.

What perks?

convex:

Monetary policy for instance. Would you say that Slovakia now has more control over their monetary policy since joining the euro, or less?

What control has Kansas about the US monetary policy? Are they complaining?
Is there also much of conspiracy talk about a mysterious "Washington" opressing them all???

convex:

Would you say that Poland now has more control over their borders than before signing up for schengen?

They are not going to be invaded again? ;)
In case of an outward attack they won't ever be alone?

kith:

Because . . . we have a common language - English . . . ? Maybe that helps

Well, not in the beginning...your government did choose english as primary language (could have been German as well *grin*)

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Jan 15, 10, 19:13 #17

Bratwurst Boy:

What perks?

Like trading control of monetary policy for the perk of being less susceptible to manipulation by speculators. The increase in trade from a common currency.

Bratwurst Boy:

What control has Kansas in the US monetary policy? Are they complaining?

They never had control of their monetary policy because they were never a sovereign nation.

Bratwurst Boy:

They are not going to be invaded again? ;)

That's a nice perk.

Again, by giving control of anything for a central body, you are giving up elements of national sovereignty. There are advantages and disadvantages.

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 19:13 #18
In EU you trade parts of national sovereignity for money.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 15, 10, 19:17 #19

convex:

Again, by giving control of anything for a central body, you are giving up elements of national sovereignty. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Just imagine 50 different, squabbling states where now is the United States of America and then tell me their national sovereignity would be preferable!

king polkakamon:

In EU you trade parts of national sovereignity for money.

Right now the EU suffers under Greek idiocy!
If the EU had more rights and Greece less sovereignity we wouldn't have to bail you out again and again with hard money....right now it's you who are profiting!
Without the EU you would be a hopeless basket case...

king polkakamonThreads: 1 Posts: 1,018 Joined: Dec 30, 09 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 19:19 #20
United States of Europe would be a good idea but without Obama.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 15, 10, 19:20 #21
time means: LMAO NOT ANOTHER ONE. You are an American and about as Polish as me (at least i have been) The words 'nail' and 'head' spring to mind. 1jola: They could be American. Nevermind, you yourself were American once upon a time. Maybe they'll recover too.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jan 15, 10, 19:21 #22
king polkakamon: United States of Europe would be a good idea but without Obama. I don't think if we will ever have concentrated so much power in one person... we don't need to do EVERYTHING like the US! ;)

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Jan 15, 10, 19:31 #23

Bratwurst Boy:

LMAO NOT ANOTHER ONE.

You are an American and about as Polish as me (at least i have been)
The words 'nail' and 'head' spring to mind.

Ethnically, I'm Polish.

Harry, Harry, what's up with you, brother? Are you a violent murderer? Wanna put a nail in my head? I thought you wanted to come off as so benevolent.

I don't think BB was talking about separating the states. I think he was talking about how the states got together and formed on large state. That's what he wants for Europe.

There was a vote (some time in history) about the national language - a vote between German and English. Obviously, English won. Let me see if I can find info on that.

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