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Poland building an empire (instead of a nation)?


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Chicago PollockThreads: 10
Posts: 638
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 06:08    #1
Poland losing its focus on building a nation. Now it wants a military alliance with Ukraine and Lithuania. They can't leave the past.

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/15584/news/10224/47 731
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Feb 5, 11, 06:25    #2
Chicago Pollock:
Poland losing its focus on building a nation. Now it wants a military alliance with Ukraine and Lithuania. They can't leave the past.


They can't because unlike you most Poles know their history. Poland isn't building an empire (how silly to even imply that) but rather expanding existing alliances and deepening the friendship ties with her neighbors, a very critical aspect of any nation's well being. Russia has been Poland's archenemy and it will always be Poland's archenemy. Befriending other nations who too are exposed to the often belligerent Russian neighbor makes perfect sense. When Finland was attacked by Soviet Union many Swedes and Danes volunteered to help defend Finland from the Russian murderous thug army. It only makes sense for Poland to create as many and as strong alliances as possible in case yet another Putin Führer takes over.
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Feb 5, 11, 06:49    #3
Poland building an empire?

Chicago Pollock:
Poland losing its focus on building a nation. Now it wants a military alliance with Ukraine and Lithuania.

you actually mistaken with the choice of title for the thread

on this article by respectable Warsaw Voice (from your link) > Polish and Ukrainian Leaders Discuss Development of Strategic Partnership, i would give title > `Poland and Ukraine, partnership for new Slavic alliance`
MediaWatchThreads: 31
Posts: 1,305
Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 07:09    #4
skysoulmate:
They can't because unlike you most Poles know their history. Poland isn't building an empire (how silly to even imply that) but rather expanding existing alliances and deepening the friendship ties with her neighbors, a very critical aspect of any nation's well being. Russia has been Poland's archenemy and it will always be Poland's archenemy. Befriending other nations who too are exposed to the often belligerent Russian neighbor makes perfect sense. When Finland was attacked by Soviet Union many Swedes and Danes volunteered to help defend Finland from the Russian murderous thug army. It only makes sense for Poland to create as many and as strong alliances as possible in case yet another Putin Führer takes over.


I agree with you. I also have no idea where CP gets the notion of Poland "building and empire" by simply doing the right thing and building relationships with all its neighbors.

Even if Poland and Russia don't have perfect relations, I think Poland to the degree it can, should even keep trying to build relations with Russia despite the ongoing ups and downs of Polish-Russian relations. The ups and downs is kind of a given thing LOL
Chicago PollockThreads: 10
Posts: 638
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 07:29    #5
skysoulmate:

They can't because unlike you most Poles know their history.


Exactly, that's my whole point they can't leave their history (they know it too well). They already have a military alliance with NATO. Lithuania and Ukraine aren't even in NATO. And they're raising money for Belarus's political opposition. And what happens next, Polish trucks are lined up at the border. Not Good. The Political Class in Poland needs to keep their focus on Poland, ya know stuff like 12% unemployment, infrastructure, energy issues, public debt, etc. This ain't 1500, it's the 21st century.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Feb 5, 11, 08:06    #6
Chicago Pollock:
Exactly, that's my whole point they can't leave their history (they know it too well). They already have a military alliance with NATO. Lithuania and Ukraine aren't even in NATO. And they're raising money for Belarus's political opposition. And what happens next, Polish trucks are lined up at the border. Not Good. The Political Class in Poland needs to keep their focus on Poland, ya know stuff like 12% unemployment, infrastructure, energy issues, public debt, etc. This ain't 1500, it's the 21st century.


CP - there's no such thing as knowing too much of your history! That's like saying being too smart is bad for your acne.

You're a typical example of the Chicago socialist elite, or someone who views himself as better than anyone else. Clueless and most of all selfish. Chicago should change its nickname from "the windy city" to "the corrupt and paranoid city" or "obamanistan" if you prefer. Crooks of the World - Unite!

First of all Lithuania IS part of NATO and the EU too in case you've missed it. Their special ops troops have been fighting by our side in Afghanistan for example, several Lithuanian Air Force reps have visited several of our bases in the last few months. Ukraine WILL become part of NATO and there is Ukrainian military delegation in the US as we speak. They'll keep things on the lowdown to avoid antagonizing the Russians in Ukraine but eventually it will happen, same with Georgia.

You are a selfish person who pretends to care about Poland but in reality you don't give a **** about anyone but yourself. The people of Poland needed help in the past and fortunately the leadership of most Western nations disagreed with your mentality of appeasement and surrender. It took many years but eventually Poland freed herself from the communist plague and the Russian hegemony. Today Belarus deserves the same help Poland got in the past. Ukraine and Lithuania need to be pulled closer to the West and the Polish government is doing the right thing.


This is you -> Q
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Feb 5, 11, 11:40    #7
Poland, finally, is starting to realise that history must remain history - and that historical grudges should be set aside for the sake of the country.

Working closely with Lithuania and Ukraine makes perfect sense.
BabinichThreads: 1
Posts: 1,054
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 11:42    #8
Chicago Pollock:
Poland losing its focus on building a nation. Now it wants a military alliance with Ukraine and Lithuania. They can't leave the past.


Why not? As Germany and Russia draw closer it's nice to have some friends.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 13:19    #9
Babinich:

Why not? As Germany and Russia draw closer it's nice to have some friends.


....what do you think Germany is for Poland?
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
Posts: 1,652
Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 13:28    #10
Bratwurst Boy:
....what do you think Germany is for Poland?


Good question, I think Poland has a very close relationship with Germany, most definitely closer than with either the Ukraine or Lithuania.
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Feb 5, 11, 19:57    #11
skysoulmate

wait, if i understood you correctly... you wants to fight for `democracy` and `human rights` by standards of so called west, by sacrificing lives of Poles, Ukrainians and Lithuanians?

are you maybe on some nice grass?
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 20:12    #12
Chicago Pollock:
The Political Class in Poland needs to keep their focus on Poland, ya know stuff like 12% unemployment, infrastructure, energy issues, public debt, etc.

And any focus on the above is likely to be too small, while people just moan among themselves rather than be pro-active. Nevertheless, the Poles did reject the isolationist PiS/LPR/ Samoobrona government before it had completed its first (and last) term
Chicago Pollock:
This ain't 1500, it's the 21st century.

Indeed, and Lithuania and Ukraine are still neighbours and Russia is still a superpower. Co-operation with neighbours is many times better than ignoring them.
AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: AdamKadmon  Feb 5, 11, 21:23    #13
Poland building an empire?

Empire?

I think empire is like war. It is a recurrent human practice. Indeed, it's still with us in various forms, though we may be unaware of it. While we may hate war, we should hate war, we still want to study it, we need to study it, and the same applies to empire. It's difficult, it's often horrible, it's deeply contentious, but that is precisely, why we need to look at it more. More knowledge, less ignorance.

I do not understand why this constant talk about Poland being an empire comes back again and again. Throughout the history of Poland there were no homegrown empires. If you refer to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was a republic with a king as its head; democracy, however limited to one class, that is szlachta - roughly 10% of the population; and with Latin as its official language.

If you compare Poland to any colonial empire, say, French or English, you should take into consideration that they may be some day persuaded to pay the reparations to African countries for the destruction of that continent. So do not put Poland in the same club. Poland was not an imperial power, but people living in Poland were very much victims of imperialism transferred to Europe during the last war. Do not forget about it. Now you can feel how the imperialism tastes.
BarneyThreads: 16
Posts: 1,630
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 21:31    #14
AdamKadmon:
So do not put Poland in the same club. Poland was not an imperial power, but people living in Poland were very much victims of imperialism transferred to Europe during the last war. Do not forget about it. Now you can know how the imperialism taste.

Very well said, the Soviet and Nazi empires terrible things altogether.
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 5, 11, 22:16    #15
Babinich:
Why not? As Germany and Russia draw closer it's nice to have some friends.


Because you always choose wrong allies...
gogaThreads: -
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 10, 11 ♀ 		 Feb 5, 11, 23:50    #16
Bratwurst Boy:
Good question, I think Poland has a very close relationship with Germany, most definitely closer than with either the Ukraine or Lithuania.


On the surface it seeems that Poland and Germany have got good relationships with each other, but it is not so. Germany wants to spike Poland's guns with regard to the Swinoujscie gasport by building with the Russians the northstream pipeline above the sea, which will preclude large ships from supplying gas to ¦winoujscie. Besides that, they are building a competetive gasport near ¦winoujscie with the aim to undercut the Polish gasport. It is so because Germany wants Poland to pay high stakes for gas and oil so that Poland's industry will not threaten Germany's. In Germany labour costs are higher, so the Germans are plotting to offset it by making Poles pay for gas and oil as high stakes as possible. The Russians are also interested in making Poles depended on their gas so its kind of natural that they have entered into collusiion with Germans against Poles.
/the second thing, Germans feel they are the victims of the WWII. It is presumptious of them, but what can you do about it.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Feb 6, 11, 00:53    #17
Heh :)

Did you read all that in "Conspiracy monthly"???

...makes note to get them shot first thing tomorrow...no, it's weekend...but monday for sure!
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 6, 11, 01:12    #18
Crow:
Poland and Ukraine, partnership for new Slavic alliance`


jeez, if it was up to you, every other word should be "Slavic", lol

Bratwurst Boy:
....what do you think Germany is for Poland?


a member of the same Slavic family? (lol)
Chicago PollockThreads: 10
Posts: 638
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 03:27    #19
Hmmmm, how did you get all this:

skysoulmate:
CP - there's no such thing as knowing too much of your history! That's like saying being too smart is bad for your acne.

You're a typical example of the Chicago socialist elite, or someone who views himself as better than anyone else. Clueless and most of all selfish. Chicago should change its nickname from "the windy city" to "the corrupt and paranoid city" or "obamanistan" if you prefer. Crooks of the World - Unite!

First of all Lithuania IS part of NATO and the EU too in case you've missed it. Their special ops troops have been fighting by our side in Afghanistan for example, several Lithuanian Air Force reps have visited several of our bases in the last few months. Ukraine WILL become part of NATO and there is Ukrainian military delegation in the US as we speak. They'll keep things on the lowdown to avoid antagonizing the Russians in Ukraine but eventually it will happen, same with Georgia.

You are a selfish person who pretends to care about Poland but in reality you don't give a **** about anyone but yourself. The people of Poland needed help in the past and fortunately the leadership of most Western nations disagreed with your mentality of appeasement and surrender. It took many years but eventually Poland freed herself from the communist plague and the Russian hegemony. Today Belarus deserves the same help Poland got in the past. Ukraine and Lithuania need to be pulled closer to the West and the Polish government is doing the right thing.


Out of this:

Chicago Pollock:
Exactly, that's my whole point they can't leave their history (they know it too well). They already have a military alliance with NATO. Lithuania and Ukraine aren't even in NATO. And they're raising money for Belarus's political opposition. And what happens next, Polish trucks are lined up at the border. Not Good. The Political Class in Poland needs to keep their focus on Poland, ya know stuff like 12% unemployment, infrastructure, energy issues, public debt, etc. This ain't 1500, it's the 21st century.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Feb 6, 11, 05:33    #20
Got it out of your previous comment (ie. Lithuania not part of NATO, really?) and some of your past comments where you advocate not giving a f&*k about Poland's neighbors because you supposedly care about Poland. Yeah right, let's not upset Russia, a typical obamanista attitude.
Chicago PollockThreads: 10
Posts: 638
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 07:33    #21
Poland is making the same mistake it made in the 1920's-30's, getting in border disputes with all it's neighbor's. By 1939 it wasn't just Germany that invaded Poland it was Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czechs. All of its neighbors piled in. Belorussian domestic politics is none of Poland's business. Poland should Butt out.
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 08:51    #22
Chicago Pollock:
oland is making the same mistake it made in the 1920's-30's, getting in border disputes with all it's neighbor's. By 1939 it wasn't just Germany that invaded Poland it was Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czechs. All of its neighbors piled in. Belorussian domestic politics is none of Poland's business. Poland should Butt out.


Golden words!!! Those who sow the wind will reap the storm
MediaWatchThreads: 31
Posts: 1,305
Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 09:29    #23
Chicago Pollock:
Poland is making the same mistake it made in the 1920's-30's, getting in border disputes with all it's neighbor's. By 1939 it wasn't just Germany that invaded Poland it was Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czechs. All of its neighbors piled in. Belorussian domestic politics is none of Poland's business. Poland should Butt out.


I think Poland's viewpoint on the Belorussian government is along the lines of other European countries. Heck Bratwurst Boy brought up an interesting topic where the Belrussain government saw Germany and Poland as having the same viewpoint on the Belarus government. So the Polish viewpoint on the Belarus government is in alignment with other major European governments.

As for your claim that Poland was invaded in WWII by Germany, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czechs (many of its neighbors), shouldn't that be a good reason for Poland today to try to have good relations with all these countries? I thinks so.

Poland doesn't have to agree with everything with its neighbors to have cordial relations with them. That's what good politics is all about.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Feb 6, 11, 10:01    #24
Chicago Pollock:
Poland is making the same mistake it made in the 1920's-30's, getting in border disputes with all it's neighbor's. By 1939 it wasn't just Germany that invaded Poland it was Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Czechs. All of its neighbors piled in. Belorussian domestic politics is none of Poland's business. Poland should Butt out.


Congratulations, you just got praised by one the worst russian thugs on this forum.
This is the kind of scum that's praising you:

ConstantineK:
More than 30000 Russians were tortured there by polish authorities. And when you, my friends, are claiming for justice in the case of Katyn, you should remember these victims too.

I think that Katyn is the righteous retaliation for your own faults.

ConstantineK:
Oh, please don't exaggerate the fact. As you possibly know, the shot in head is better death than being starved to death. You may consider this as a mercy.

Tuchola - roots of Katyn?

You must be proud mr quisling. People like you make me want to throw up. I bet whenever yoiu see a person getting beat up you just look the other way and pretend that you don't see anything, right? You should butt out of PF and join surrenderforums.com or KissRussianAss.com instead.
Ashleys mindThreads: 7
Posts: 1,346
Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 6, 11, 10:29    #25
Chicago Pollock:
They can't leave the past.


Do you think if they stopped discussing the past, it would go away...?
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 12:06    #26
skysoulmate:
Congratulations, you just got praised by one the worst russian thugs on this forum.
This is the kind of scum that's praising you:


Oh thank you! I just "got praised" by most stupid American Polack on this forum who hardly has a little bit of wit to understand sarcasm over unnaturally looping polish idea of Katyn
Ashleys mindThreads: 7
Posts: 1,346
Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀ 		 Feb 6, 11, 12:10    #27
ConstantineK:
Oh thank you! I just "got praised" by most stupid American Polack on this forum who hardly has a little bit of wit to understand sarcasm over unnaturally looping polish idea of Katyn


Not to take sides... but I object! (With the stupid Pollock part...) ;)
ConstantineKThreads: 35
Posts: 1,949
Joined: May 10, 07 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 12:33    #28
Ashleys mind:
ConstantineK: Oh thank you! I just "got praised" by most stupid American Polack on this forum who hardly has a little bit of wit to understand sarcasm over unnaturally looping polish idea of Katyn


Not to take sides... but I object! (With the stupid Pollock part...) ;)


... or may be in part of "most stupid"? ;)
AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		 Feb 6, 11, 13:12    #29
Chicago Pollock:
Poland losing its focus on building a nation. Now it wants a military alliance with Ukraine and Lithuania. They can't leave the past.


The purpose of reading is to connect the ideas on the page to what you already know. If you don't know anything about a subject, then pouring words of text into your mind is like pouring water into your hand. You don't retain much.

The Warsaw Voice article: Polish and Ukrainian Leaders Discuss Development of Strategic Partnership
gogaThreads: -
Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 10, 11 ♀ 		 Feb 6, 11, 13:31    #30
Bratwurst Boy:
Heh :)

Did you read all that in "Conspiracy monthly"???

Nope, got it from the Gazeta Prawna."

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