WHY DOES POLAND BUY GAS FROM RUSSIA?

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 05:06 #1
I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia- their biggest enemy since, oh I dunno, the beginning of time! I remember a couple of years ago the Ruski's turned off the supply for a while (which affected Germany too). What is Poland doing to diversify it's supply?

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06 ♀	Oct 17, 09, 08:04 #2
I thought they make their own gas from all them gołąbki and bigosy

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Oct 17, 09, 12:23 #3

well, the oil and gas prospecting works in Poland were not the highest world standard during the 80's and now there are voices we have enough gas of our own only the fields are not being developed - actually one can think there could have been high level sabotage in Polish governing bodies influenced by Russian agents so as not to prospect and develope Polish gas fields (sidenote: I am not sure if it is true, but read once that American prospectors in early 90's have discovered enormous deep gas fields beneath the Carpathians - this is not included in the estimates made that we could be self-sufficient as for natural gas, AFAIK)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Oct 17, 09, 12:26 #4
International relations are international relations but business is business. Wow, that's odd. I'd never shake hands with my biggest enemy. Tusk seemingly does. The simplest answer is that gas is needed here and it's not far to transit.

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Oct 17, 09, 12:50 #5

rychlik:

I live in Canada

There you have the most important statement of your post. You live in Canada, far away from Europe. You haven't got a clue about the dynamics and processes taking place in Europe. Poles buy gas from the Russians, simply because its cheaper or the only gas available in the area?

gumishu:

we have enough gas of our own

Hm, just to compare: NL is supposed to have one of the world's largest gasfields underneath her soil, well exploited and handled. And another one underneath her part of the North Sea yet to be exploited. Yet we sell that to Germany and other countries, while we import gas from Russia. How's that for logic, eh?

The capitalist's logic behind this is that they cannot charge as much for Dutch gas than they can for Russian gas and they can simply make more money out of our own gas by selling it. C'est tout.

>^..^<

M-G (needs to do something, but forgot what)

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Oct 17, 09, 13:09 #6

Seanus:

Tusk seemingly does.

Tusk is a known cheater and liar (to use a quote;) - curious if anyone here will know where the quote is from)

Watch Tusk behaving confronted with Angela Merkel and Putin - it's not the way the host is supposed to behave - the guy was shaking after the famous conference whereby he dismissed his closest political allies (working as ministers in his cabinet) and went on to cast grand accusations on CBA and it's boss - it must have been tension within (am I able to lie so blatantly and will they believe me)

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 13:11 #7
gumishu: Tusk Who'd you rather have as pm: Tusk or Kaczinski again? I know who'd I would choose for. >^..^< M-G (needs to get off his butt and do something)

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Edited by: sledz Oct 17, 09, 13:38 #8

rychlik:

I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia

The Ruskies have all of Europe under thier control. Thats why when the invade countries like Georgia, The UK and France put thier tails between thier legs and wait for the USA to save them because they havent got any balls! Theyre so afraid Russia will close the spicket on them.

Russian will always own Europe coz the EU will never stand up against them:)

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Edited by: gumishu Oct 17, 09, 13:42 #9

MareGaea:

I know who'd I would choose for.

it does not matter who you would choose for for obvious reasons - btw it is very sympthomatic that the Westerners seem to know better what kind of politicians should govern Poland - I tell you stop thinking you know better - what is good for you is not necessarily good for Poland

sledz:

Russian will always own Europe coz the EU will never stand up against them:)

this is why Poland (at least part of Polish political scene) seek close alliance with America but America seems not be interested at the moment

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Oct 17, 09, 13:52 #10

Briefly speaking -
Gazprom ( Russia ) control a lot of the supply to Eastern and Central Europe, including Poland.
Periodically they turn it off when Putin gets peed off.

To prevent this Poland is looking to get 20% of its hydrocarbons from Norway (Skanled).

Because this wil lessen Russian influence, Russia up the stakes by building a pipeline to Germany which bypasses Poland.

US are looking to gain influence in EU by building a pipeline through the Stans ( including Afghanistan).

sledz:

USA to save them

USA saved Georgia ???

sledz:

Russian will always own Europe coz the EU will never stand up against them:)

Russia/USA - whats the difference ?

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 13:53 #11
gumishu: this is why Poland (at least part of Polish political scene) seek close alliance with America but America seems not be interested at the moment Maybe were waiting for Germany, France and England to step up to the plate??? The EU is a joke...lol

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 17, 09, 13:55 #12
I live in Canada and wonder enough said

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Edited by: szkotja2007 Oct 17, 09, 13:58 #13

Briefly speaking -
Gazprom ( Russia ) control a lot of the supply to Eastern and Central Europe, including Poland.
Periodically they turn it off when Putin gets peed off.

To prevent this Poland is looking to get 20% of its hydrocarbons from Norway (Skanled).

Because this wil lessen Russian influence, Russia up the stakes by building a pipeline to Germany which bypasses Poland.

US are looking to gain influence in EU by building a pipeline through the Stans ( including Afghanistan).

sledz:

USA to save them

USA saved Georgia ???

sledz:

Russian will always own Europe coz the EU will never stand up against them:)

Russia/USA - whats the difference ?

gumishu:

enormous deep gas fields beneath the Carpathians

Dont believe the hype. I took a 75% loss on these.

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 14:01 #14
szkotja2007: USA saved Georgia ??? Why should we???? The mighty European Armies that live right next door couldnt or were too afraid to do anything?? Russia will walk all over Europe anytime it feels like it and the first thing you would do is cry to the USA,,,,help us:)

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 14:04 #15
szkotja2007: Russia/USA - whats the difference ? You gotta be kidding me? When did America say that all Mexicans are in fact Americans and they should all belong to the USA? Or all of America since USA is America?! They don't do $h!T liek that RUSSIA DOES!

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 14:25 #16
Mr Grunwald: When did America say that all Mexicans are in fact Americans and they should all belong to the USA? 19th Century. Who has repatriated more land - Russia in the last 30 years or USA in its entire history ? ( Ok, apart from the Phillipines )

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Oct 17, 09, 14:25 #17
The trend is going from gas to electricity. Probably because of the price these days. So it's very likely that Poland will need much less gas in the future.

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06 ♂	Edited by: sledz Oct 17, 09, 14:36 #18
Mr Grunwald: When did America say that all Mexicans are in fact Americans and they should all belong to the USA? Probably some Mexican said it...lol England wont even be a country anymore in 20 years time, well just call it Immigarant Isle... Thier heritage and country are slowly rotting away internally, they sold out thier citizens and now take orders from Brussels...lol

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Oct 17, 09, 15:24 #19

rychlik:

I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia- their biggest enemy since, oh I dunno, the beginning of time!

That is exactly the way it is with oil in Canada.
Canada is #1 source of oil in the US and yet:

- gasoline is more expensive in Canada
- Canadians living along the border with the US will often cross the border just to pump gasoline in their cars

Just two days ago I went shopping to the US and the prices are as follows:

Buffalo, NY - $0.63/liter
Niagara, ON - $0.90/liter

Explain that.

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Edited by: gumishu Oct 17, 09, 15:43 #20

z_darius:

Buffalo, NY - $0.63/liter
Niagara, ON - $0.90/liter

Explain that.

simple - more tax on gas in Canada than the US - in Poland all taxes amount to almost 80 per cent of gas/petrol prices

szkotja2007:

enormous deep gas fields beneath the Carpathians

Dont believe the hype. I took a 75% loss on these.

well there was no hype in the media in Poland about that - I only read it online on some industry related website (it was in Polish) -
what I have read they take gas from 5 km deep reservoirs in southern US (Luisiana) - they have prospected it according to newer gas/oil origin theories (I think it was the 80's)
there was a suspection that such reservoirs lie beneath the Carpathians (it is often that smaller shallower gas fields (or oil fields) lie above vaster fields beneath) - the thing is these deeper fields are much more expensive to develope

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Oct 17, 09, 17:53 #21

sledz:

The Ruskies have all of Europe under thier control. Thats why when the invade countries like Georgia, The UK and France put thier tails between thier legs and wait for the USA to save them because they havent got any balls! Theyre so afraid Russia will close the spicket on them.

Russian will always own Europe coz the EU will never stand up against them:)

Doesn't Norway, or one of those northern countries have a ton of gas???

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 17:57 #22
rychlik: Doesn't Norway, or one of those northern countries have a ton of gas??? Norwegian North Sea deposits are soon gonna be depleted. They are already used for over 30 years

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Oct 17, 09, 17:58 #23
Sledz is right. Germany is bum buddies with Russia, Sarkozy is a crawling fly who curries favour with them and Brown would never stand up to Putin. Russia can act with impunity and cripple Europe this winter. Polish business is heavily reliant on Russian gas and even temporary cutoffs can visibly hamper industrial progress here. Scotland is in a decent position when it comes to gas.

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Oct 17, 09, 18:00 #24
Crow: enough said What's the problem?? At least I am following what's going on in Poland. Typical Euro snobs. By the way the Polish community is pretty big around Toronto.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 17, 09, 18:14 #25
rychlik: What's the problem?? be objective rychlik: At least I am following what's going on in Poland. that`s good rychlik: Typical Euro snobs. Poljaci in Poland? rychlik: By the way the Polish community is pretty big around Toronto. Do they have contacts with Serbs of Toronto? maybe cooperation during elections? maybe solidarity with Serbs over Kosovo question?

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Oct 17, 09, 18:14 #26

I agree with Rychlik. I've never been to the ME, for example, but I've researched it so thoroughly that I know what I'm talking about. I've also watched umpteen Kosovo documentaries and am watching another now.

Canadians tend to be broad-minded people in my experience. They make inquisitive journalists and they can couple their resourcefulness with having ample access to the info they need.

I'd even prefer to listen to a Canadian perspective as they are more detached from the ding-dong battle that existed between Gasprom and Ukraine/Poland and the EU in general. Say no to European provincialism.

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Oct 17, 09, 18:58 #27

Seanus:

Russia can act with impunity and cripple Europe this winter. Polish business is heavily reliant on Russian gas and even temporary cutoffs can visibly hamper industrial progress here.

industrial gas consumption is already limited in Poland - one fourth of Russian gas went to Poland through a middle man - RossUkrEnergo which is also a middle man in Russian-Ukraine gas deal - since last January gas crisis the RossUkrEnergo is out of business (as agreed between Ukraine and Russia) and Poland was left without its one fourth of supply - RossUkrEnergo is bankrupt - what is more Russia doesn't wish to sign long term deal with Poland (even though the conditions offered by Polish side were pretty favorable for Russians - there is a need for success in the present government's foreign policy - one of it's claims was Kaczyńskis were obsessed with Russians and antagonised them - so PO government is ready to make big consessions to Russians just to strike some deals with them to enhance their 'diplomats' image) (you can be diplomatic to whatever extent - if someone is bent to screw you and has an egde over you he will have at least short term success)

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 17, 09, 19:07 #28
rychlik: I live in Canada and wonder why Poland get their gas imports from Russia Because Russia sits on most economically feasable reserves for the region, thats all there is to it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Oct 17, 09, 19:09 #29
I agree with that, Gumi. Tusk is a man who values brownie points and the next election, rather than practical concerns

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 17, 09, 19:14 #30
Seanus: I agree with that, Gumi. Tusk is a man who values brownie points and the next election, rather than practical concerns Maybe but he still wouldnt betray Mel Gibson like your king did! gumishu: what is more Russia doesn't wish to sign long term deal with Poland My personal opinion is that its because of Russian gas deposits dwindling rather then malevolent politics, at worst its both.

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