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Poland could emerge as new European and world power. If?


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CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 30, 10, 19:46    #1
Poland could emerge as new European and world power. If?

If? What you think?
Szczerbiec

if just
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 21:05    #2
And what if it was, Crow?
CrowThreads: 367
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Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 30, 10, 21:57    #3
there are many `if`. Some of those if, in my opinion:

1. if Poland manage to successfully balance between western Europe/USA and Russia, speaking of her policy in general
2. if Poland strengthen her relations with Ukraine and Baltic states without upsetting Russia
3. if Poland strengthen her relations with Serbia and spread her influence on other Balkan Slavs without aggravating her relations with Germany, USA, Britain, France and Turkey
4. if Poland strengthen her economy to the maximum of its potentials without provoking German (on the first place) attention
5. if Poland strengthen spiritually and nationally without provoking other European powers
6. if Poland improve her relations with China without upsetting other world powers
7. if Poland increase her influence on Vatican
8. if Poland increase her influence on Slavic world in general
9. if Poland improve her relations with major world powers such are Japan, India, Basil
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Drac90  Apr 30, 10, 21:58    #4
if 50 will pass ^^
if i will be president
if we start to use our own resources instead of buying
if we get support by others east countries
if west will allow us :D
if number of our population grow
if we stop to support parties that set as a main goal to lick ass of other super powers
if mentality of some poles change a little
if we start to drain profits from our geographic position*more highways railroads etc*
there is more but i dont want to end thread just now xd

Crow:
if Poland increase her influence on Vatican

i dont get what you mean by that ^^
MareGaeaThreads: 45
Posts: 5,527
Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:05    #5
If Easter and Pentrecote fall on the same day, only then.

:)

>^..^<

M-G (grin)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:08    #6
1) It's about opportunism, Crow. Word has it that Tusk has signed a deal for Patriot missiles, safe in the knowledge that Russia is absorbed in creating cordial ties by token gestures like releasing Katyń documentation and collaborating with the Smolensk investigation.

2) Ukraine and Russia have a new understanding with the Sevastopol extension to 2042. Besides, the new Ukrainian PM is an unknown element and Ukraine is 50/50 right down the middle on the deal to get new gas for cheaper. There is hardly a readily ascertainable 'Ukrainian position', Crow. They are divided!

3) Such fine balances don't come easy. Those countries know that Poland has old ties with Serbia and it's a matter of extent.

4) Poland's economy will grow as it will grow. It has some catching up to do but that process in motion won't disturb Germany.

5) Nobody would begrudge them doing that after 10/04, Crow.

6) Poland has had a solid trade relation with China for a long time, Crowie. There is compatibility in supply/demand and many others are going down the same road.

7) The Vatican is a mainstay. Poles worship it but so long as they don't see the behind-the-scenes machinations of it, all well and good.

8) Poland is open to offers I'm sure

9) Oh well, if Pudzianowski whoops Yusuke Kawaguchi next week, I doubt it ;0 ;) I lived in Japan and can safely say that they have a healthy respect for Poland and Poles. I think the respect is mutual amongst educated Poles. India and Brazil, there is potential.

10) God Bless Poland and good luck to its future aspirations!
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Crow  Apr 30, 10, 22:08    #7
Drac90:
i dont get what you mean by that ^^

Vatican has two main aspects

first, it is religious aspect and Poland here enjoy significant respect
Second aspect is Vatican`s foreign policy (Vatican`s policy as state). Speaking from the angle of Balkan Slavs (particularly Serbs, both- Catholic and Orthodox), it is evident that German interests had/has major influence on Vatican`s stance on the region. If Poland manage to increase her influence on Vatican, we can expect more balanced Vatican`s stance on Slavs in the region. But, how could Poland affect crucial Vatican`s policy without provoking hostile German respond, i don`t know

Seanus:
God Bless Poland and good luck to its future aspirations!

Poland would for sure need much of both, a lot of good luck and a lot of blessings from God
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:14    #8
Crow:
Crow

but do Vatican have any force to control anythin now?
i dont think that vatican supported partition of Kosovo too
ArienThreads: 6
Posts: 1,604
Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:16    #9
Crow, you should dump the Vatican. They've betrayed Slavic people in the second world war, and they will betray people again if they feel it's necessary. Just look at our history, and look at the facts. We don't really need these Nazi-supporting child-molesters to tell us what to do anymore, and if the people in the Balkans are smart, they would simply agree with us. You can't trust the Vatican. Ever. They only want power and influence, and they don't care about the people. Remember that.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:19    #10
Leo Zagami would agree with you and he is a 33rd-level Mason. He did a major interview with Project Camelot and he knows the inherent corruption there. There is another guy online who exposes them, Greg Szumanski or sth like that. The Vatican is one of those shady institutions hellbent on power.
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:20    #11
Arien:
Arien

yet Orthodox supported slaughter of polish civilians on "Kresy"
When our Church was the main reason why we menaged to fight off germanization and russification and it became big part of our culture. "Dump Vatican" pfff
CrowThreads: 367
Posts: 7,316
Joined: Feb 14, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:23    #12
Drac90:
but do Vatican have any force to control anythin now?

don`t ask that. Vatican always found way to affect things.

Poland should be bridge between Vatican and other Slavs. Batter Poland then Germany

Drac90:
i dont think that vatican supported partition of Kosovo too

Vatican supported Serbian sovereignty and refused to recognize Albanian separation of Kosovo from Serbia
krakowiakThreads: 4
Posts: 131
Joined: Jul 30, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: krakowiak  Apr 30, 10, 22:24    #13
...if Polish software experts stay loyal to their motherland and software prooves crucial for on field performance of the military robots/drones the next wars would be faught with!

So things stand pretty good for Poles! Poland has the best programmers and mathematicans and even more important, Poles tend to be patriotic. With western europe sinking in multicultaral nightmare, usa and japan in late roman decadence, china will be the only competetor! And given the world beeing as big as it is, we would split 50:50, china gets africa and 'asian' asia+Australia, Poland the rest.

@Crow: Poland would need talented people to command the units. Not to maneuver them, this will do the software, but general direction would have to be given by a human person, like with a mouseclick on a terain. So if you have children, make sure they play games like StarCraft, the war will be much alike.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:25    #14
Drac90, what garbage is that? You didn't fight off Germanisation or Russification at all. They were fought off for you. The Germans were defeated, thanks largely to Britain, the Soviets and America. The Soviets were pacified after that. I think you have an image of Popes running towards enemy soldiers and casting spells on them. Best stay off the acid!
Marek11111Threads: 49
Posts: 1,954
Joined: Aug 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:25    #15
if Poland get nukes it will be European power as no one will think to attack Poland for the western land
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:29    #16
Marek11111:
if Poland get nukes it will be European power as no one will think to attack Poland for the western land


But nowadays only being not attacked militarily doesn't makes you a "power".
Economical clout is much more important....
MareGaeaThreads: 45
Posts: 5,527
Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:29    #17
As soon as the Vatican will start paying my bills and my rent, then I will start believing in the Vatican. Not any sooner. Yes, that was sarcasm, in case some uneducated sb accuses me of something imaginairy.

>^..^<

M-G (ole, Spaniards, here I come)
TorqThreads: 65
Posts: 4,024
Joined: Apr 10, 09  Pictures: 1  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Torq  Apr 30, 10, 22:29    #18
Admit it, Crow - you just copied some old Marshal Piłsudski's ideas and made them look
like your own...

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi%C4%99dzymorze_%28polityka%29

Międzymorze

... ;-)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 22:31    #19
Oh, the Poles are economical, BB. The question is, 'are they economic?' ;0 ;)

I think Piłsudski took different slants from Crow, Torqy :)
ArienThreads: 6
Posts: 1,604
Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Arien  Apr 30, 10, 23:02    #20
Drac90, the Vatican fought off the Germans? Don't make me laugh! If you want to put your trust in people who have smuggled Nazi's to Argentina, then be my guest. Ofcourse you can give credits to Karol Józef Wojtyła for speaking to politicians, but don't forget Lech Wałęsa has done a lot for Poland when the Vatican wasn't there, and don't forget how other countries pressured the Soviet Union either. My point is that the Vatican itself will kneel to tyrants whenever it benefits them. History doesn't lie.
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Drac90  Apr 30, 10, 23:10    #21
Seanus
i dont think you know what it is germanisation and russification at all. Well im so kind i will explain it to You even tho i have low opinion on you, mainly based on your ignorant stance ^^
for exemple germanisation was a proces to convert poles to germans and destroy language and culture of Poland. Also moving ppl in native german lands and moving native germans in old polish lands etc this is germanisation - its not the same as occupation but often come together ^^ i mean *sation/cation thing

ahh and i didnt said that vatican did but our church did, local polish priests
edit
sry it was not to Seanus
guzzlerThreads: 6
Posts: 165
Joined: Mar 28, 10 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 23:12    #22
Seanus:
The Vatican is one of those shady institutions hellbent on power.


The Vatican has been a world power since 400AD, the Roman Empire never went away it just changed its name to the Holy Roman Catholic Church with a larger Empire.
dtaylor5632Threads: 49
Posts: 4,459
Joined: May 2, 09  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		Edited by: dtaylor5632  Apr 30, 10, 23:16    #23
Drac90:
for exemple germanisation was a proces to convert poles to germans and destroy language and culture of Poland.

As in changing street names to German as a way of brainwashing the populous.

As I could imagine the Vatican was a key tool used by the Nazi's in pacifying the populous at the same time. Whether or not they knew it.

Drac90:
ahh and i didnt said that vatican did but our church did, local polish priests

Despite what JPII did, I cant see local priests doing very much. They as well would have been under the control of the occupying forces.
f stopThreads: 33
Posts: 2,861
Joined: Dec 9, 09  Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Apr 30, 10, 23:24    #24
- if it learns to separate church and state.
- Polish language is a serious barrier.. too difficult to learn.
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Drac90  Apr 30, 10, 23:26    #25
dtaylor5632:
They as well would have been under the control of the occupying forces.

Its well know in Poland that at time the Poland was under foreign rule the priests was a soul of Poland, it was them who keept cheering poles and their fighting spirit also they provided wide help for partisants. Please please please please please all of you! dont take voice regardin my history if you not even bother to check it first :D

Drac90:
- Polish language is a serious barrier.. too difficult to learn.

its yet understandable for many of east countries ppl all good :D
dtaylor5632Threads: 49
Posts: 4,459
Joined: May 2, 09  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 23:45    #26
Drac90:
Its well know in Poland that at time the Poland was under foreign rule the priests was a soul of Poland, it was them who keept cheering poles and their fighting spirit also they provided wide help for partisants.

It may have well done so. But what real difference did it make? Did it start any rebellions? Did it fight against the Russians or Nazi's by openly opposing them in public? There is a huge difference in helping out and actually making a huge change.
Drac90:
its yet understandable for many of east countries ppl all good :D

Really doesn't help when you are trying to build the country into being a player on the world scene.

Though the advantage of that is that a lot of Poles have a natural talent for learning foreign languages.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Apr 30, 10, 23:49    #27
Drac90, if you believe that the Vatican fought off Germanisation and Russification as you describe them then you are really misguided. Try and separate JPII from the rest of the Vatican.
ArienThreads: 6
Posts: 1,604
Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Arien  Apr 30, 10, 23:52    #28
Drac90, relax, I obviously don't like the Vatican, and for good reasons, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill you because you disagree with me. You have your opinion, I have mine, and I can live with that. Just keep in mind that Lech Wałęsa and many other Polish people have done a lot when they began with Solidarność. (Dtaylor, yup, I know one Polish girl who has this natural talent, among other natural talents!)
Drac90Threads: 2
Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Drac90  Apr 30, 10, 23:53    #29
and where i wrote that vatican did that? WHERE ^^ Local priests...


Arien:
Solidarność.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko

there were many many priests like him in that time

The vatican itself betreyed poles few times, im aware of it
but i feel like im pole now only becouse of these local priests
if not them i would be german minority in Poland at best xd
ArienThreads: 6
Posts: 1,604
Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Arien  Apr 30, 10, 23:54    #30
Drac90, for your information, local priests support the Vatican. (Or have they stopped calling themselves Roman Catholics all of a sudden?) Drac90, okay. Now you're being objective. I'm not denying the fact that a few priests and nuns actually did something for their own country, but it's not the Roman Catholic Church as a whole. (Even your Catholic Church.) It's not the Pope who saved Poland on his own, and that's what I meant.

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